Cybernetics and Virus
- Thread starter Cryton
- Start date
I would imagine that any post-Collapse cybernetics would likely have some form of protection. Most likely, a closed CPU that would require someone to plug their eye into the Vampire ship before something nasty happened or just dumb circuits.
I like the Virus. And I like the Vampire Fleets. I just assume that the New Era computers have been able to adopt basic safeguards without resorting to the "color-coded card" system described in the book. Why worry about it until it's part of the adventure!
I like the Virus. And I like the Vampire Fleets. I just assume that the New Era computers have been able to adopt basic safeguards without resorting to the "color-coded card" system described in the book. Why worry about it until it's part of the adventure!
I'm curious because I'm going to be running a campain using the 4I 1248 setting. Sooo, as my players enjoy enhansements, I would like to know whats been said in the past about it so I will be prepared for the game.
epicenter00
SOC-13
It depends on how "smart" the cybernetic item in question is. Generally, since cybernetics use the processing power of the human brain to give them direction and judgment, any computers in a cybernetic limb are simply too "dumb" for the Virus to actually activate inside.
However, as Aramis points out, there's plenty of Virus "infected" items lying around which have enough storage space and processing power for a Virus "seed" which can copy itself into other computer or "awaken" should the situation with storage/processing power change. Apparently all kinds of things can have Virus seeds in them, like fusion rifles, battle dress, and so on. This stuff operates normally since the Virus isn't "active" within them.
However, as Aramis points out, there's plenty of Virus "infected" items lying around which have enough storage space and processing power for a Virus "seed" which can copy itself into other computer or "awaken" should the situation with storage/processing power change. Apparently all kinds of things can have Virus seeds in them, like fusion rifles, battle dress, and so on. This stuff operates normally since the Virus isn't "active" within them.
Right up until you connect it to the diagnostic computer... which then gets virused. And then takes over the device.
It's been a while since I read the TNE material, but I seem to remember that there was a lower limit to how primitive the computer Virus could function in. Virus could lay 'eggs' in more primitive systems, but it couldn't achieve self-awareness in low (and medium?) capacity computers. Hence lower-tech worlds had a better chance of surviving direct Virus attacks (Indirect attacks, like orbital bombardment by Virus-controlled starships they weren't immune to).
I also vaguely remember something about computers based on alternate technologies (e.g. vacuum tubes, mechanics, fluidics) being immune to Virus, but that could be fanon.
Hans
I also vaguely remember something about computers based on alternate technologies (e.g. vacuum tubes, mechanics, fluidics) being immune to Virus, but that could be fanon.
Hans
E.D.Quibell
SOC-13
Back in the day I recall having a discussion on the TML about virus invading biological computers (i.e. human brains) that were "jacked".
I think the conclusion was that virus would easily win, and likley kill or lobotomise the "decker" due to the relative computational speeds of the two differemt lifeforms. Virus being orders of magnitude quicker than the human thought process, and "cyberspace" being it's natural enviroment vs the human having to "interface" into it. Also any type of human generated "protection" program would be swatted like a fly by virus.
Much more likley that the decker would die than being taken over by virus. i.e. no "Agent Smith taking over the human" like you get in the Matrix, and much more "virus sends power spikes into the human brain" via the nural interface.
Of course it's YTU so just go with what you think would be most fun to run/play.
Best regards,
Ewan
I think the conclusion was that virus would easily win, and likley kill or lobotomise the "decker" due to the relative computational speeds of the two differemt lifeforms. Virus being orders of magnitude quicker than the human thought process, and "cyberspace" being it's natural enviroment vs the human having to "interface" into it. Also any type of human generated "protection" program would be swatted like a fly by virus.
Much more likley that the decker would die than being taken over by virus. i.e. no "Agent Smith taking over the human" like you get in the Matrix, and much more "virus sends power spikes into the human brain" via the nural interface.
Of course it's YTU so just go with what you think would be most fun to run/play.
Best regards,
Ewan
Thanks guys for all the input. Its been very helpful, and thinking of the virus as an AI is good advice if my players try any sort of "decking".
Personally, I've allways felt that the best way to beat an AI in cyberspace was to isolate the computer it inhabits and then use a baseball bat on said computer. And as thats the usual proscribed method for dealing with virus, well that and EMP 'nades, I don't think the players will be so stupid as to try an in cyberspace confrontation.
However, as Traveller in my games is definately more a Pulp sci-fi serial than anything remotely Hard sci-fi, It could happen. Also, since I run virus in my game as a bit differently, ( see my reboot thread http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=25257 ) what do you think their chances are vs a Cym chip?
Personally, I've allways felt that the best way to beat an AI in cyberspace was to isolate the computer it inhabits and then use a baseball bat on said computer. And as thats the usual proscribed method for dealing with virus, well that and EMP 'nades, I don't think the players will be so stupid as to try an in cyberspace confrontation.
However, as Traveller in my games is definately more a Pulp sci-fi serial than anything remotely Hard sci-fi, It could happen. Also, since I run virus in my game as a bit differently, ( see my reboot thread http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=25257 ) what do you think their chances are vs a Cym chip?
Can't remember the stats on the TL15 implants but I think the Virus runs into a fundamental problem... controlling the human. If high-tech level implants are capable of taking over people's actions and lives, then the Virus was likely created a long time earlier by governments and espionage agencies!
I would agree that the Virus could embed itself in a dumb processor and wait to infect the diagnostic computer. But I don't like the Virus crossing over into biological arena without a synthetic brain of some type.
E.D.Quibell
SOC-13
I agree
As that's the only practical (in game terms) way that you can "rewrite" chips from within (unless they were built that way like EPROMS) I've always thought cymbeline/virus had to have psionic abilities.
Best regards,
Ewan
One of the original TNE adventures had a virus infecting a computer of a psionic institute and that developed full psionic abilities including telepathy with humans, so virus having somesort of psionic abilities does not seem unreasonable.
Given the psionic penalities of telepathy between various carbon based alien races, virus to human telepathy probably has a massive PSP penality preventing it in normal conditions
Given the psionic penalities of telepathy between various carbon based alien races, virus to human telepathy probably has a massive PSP penality preventing it in normal conditions
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
No, just no.
Virus is not psionic, and if you read the original write up of cymberline chips it is made explicit that they can write their circuit patterns onto each other and blank silicon.
Making virus psionic is one fantasy element too far in my opinion, and one that isn't needed to explain how they function.
The better explanation is that the computer chips in Imperial hardware are indeed configurable, and that virus makes use of this to reprogram the chips in line with their own code. Much the same way as an organic virus reprograms the genetic material of a host cell.
Virus is not psionic, and if you read the original write up of cymberline chips it is made explicit that they can write their circuit patterns onto each other and blank silicon.
Making virus psionic is one fantasy element too far in my opinion, and one that isn't needed to explain how they function.
The better explanation is that the computer chips in Imperial hardware are indeed configurable, and that virus makes use of this to reprogram the chips in line with their own code. Much the same way as an organic virus reprograms the genetic material of a host cell.
E.D.Quibell
SOC-13
That's what I thought about virus, but canon is canon.
How?
Now that's just as beliveble as virus' being psions.
Best regards,
Ewan
Don't think it is a psionic artifact but rather an artifact or animal (albeit a very different sort of animal) that possesses psionic effects.
Yes, I would rule that Virus does have the ability to take over a cybernetic limb and feed either wrong information to the brain or just take over the brain's implants.
For if we look at the Dominate they were made the deal with the devil and became borgs as a result.
Virus have abilities that just isn't possible if operating under real physical laws. A Cymberline chip being able to etch new circuits into another chip with which it is in physical contact is one thing; one that can transfer itself to another system via radio waves and etch new circuits in the other system is sheer poppycock.
No, Virus is a disembodies psionic lifeform whose habitat is complex computer systems.
Hans
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Sorry but no way is it a disembodied psionic life form - no such thing exists in the OTU and by your own past arguments making something like that up stretches the 'believability' of the setting to breaking point.
Virus can be explained by real world science with a bit of creative thinking without having to resort to spiritualist nonsense.
Virus was a weapon designed to corrupt Imperial computers - initially by reprogramming the deyo chip in the transponder, but it mutated well beyond that.
Virus can be explained by real world science with a bit of creative thinking without having to resort to spiritualist nonsense.
Virus was a weapon designed to corrupt Imperial computers - initially by reprogramming the deyo chip in the transponder, but it mutated well beyond that.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Yup, we are stuck with it.
And nowhere in canon is it even hinted that virus is some sort of psionic entity.
Cymberline chips are/were silicon based life. Imperial scientists learned to manipulate them in much the same way their geneticists learned to manipulate carbon based, DNA codified lifeforms.
Go read it - pretty good adventure actually.
Except that configurable processors exist now.
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