Current Thoughts on T5

[yamsi3467]

Good Morning,

I have been giving a lot of thought to T5 over the past few days. I want to start out by saying that I understand the some parts are in rework. I think this is a good thing, and I look forward to the updated sections.

When I started as a T5 beta tester, my nephew was very interested. Recently, I asked him if he was still that way. He told me that he had gone back to Mongoose Traveller because it was simpler. T5 was just too hard for him to understand. He is very bright, and is currently a college student in Political Science.

This made me think. As has been mentioned previous times, the Core Rules lack an index. I believe this makes it hard for first time players to find what they need. It is a very large and intimidating tome! I know Rob has put together a mini-index, and I applaud that.

Also, I think more examples and tutorials would benefit. There are some examples, but in places it appears the rules got updated and the examples did not. I realize the errata handles some of this.

Among all of the rule updates, I feel that we need to make sure T5 is user friendly. When players (even veteran players) comment that they have a hard time creating characters, starships, etc. because the rules are hard to follow, I think this needs to be address.

Again, these are my thoughts. I am not taking sides, bashing anyone, or trying to start a flame war.

Yamsi

 

[robject]

An index does help. I finally created a short one for myself (and posted it here in my helpful stuff post).

 

[Draconian]

These issues have been said before. There are YouTube videos by "Hemdian" which are helpful to show character-generation and the combat system in Traveller 5th-edition. (The rules may be subject to change after the videos were made.)

I was pleased to get a lot of useful web-based utilities for T5, by the people known as Thalassogen and Robject here. Very useful for running the game; these things are top-notch! I forget what Hemdian's alias is here on CotI...?


http://www.heldenhaufen.de/T5
http://eaglestone.pocketempires.com/

 

[WistfulD]

Good Morning,

I have been giving a lot of thought to T5 over the past few days. I want to start out by saying that I understand the some parts are in rework. I think this is a good thing, and I look forward to the updated sections.

When I started as a T5 beta tester, my nephew was very interested. Recently, I asked him if he was still that way. He told me that he had gone back to Mongoose Traveller because it was simpler. T5 was just too hard for him to understand. He is very bright, and is currently a college student in Political Science.

This made me think. As has been mentioned previous times, the Core Rules lack an index. I believe this makes it hard for first time players to find what they need. It is a very large and intimidating tome! I know Rob has put together a mini-index, and I applaud that.

Also, I think more examples and tutorials would benefit. There are some examples, but in places it appears the rules got updated and the examples did not. I realize the errata handles some of this.

Among all of the rule updates, I feel that we need to make sure T5 is user friendly. When players (even veteran players) comment that they have a hard time creating characters, starships, etc. because the rules are hard to follow, I think this needs to be address.

Again, these are my thoughts. I am not taking sides, bashing anyone, or trying to start a flame war.

Yamsi

Your nephew highlights that the idea that people who dislike T5 simply want to play something simple (or aren't intelligent enough for the game) is just plain wrong. There is an actual unnecessary complexity to T5 as printed.

Hemdian's tutorials are indeed very good. I hope that the same thing can be put into writing and included in the updated T5 rules (whenever we actually get one).

 

[whulorigan]

I forget what Hemdian's alias is here on CotI...?

Hemdian.

 

[rich4421972]

An index does help. I finally created a short one for myself (and posted it here in my helpful stuff post).

Thanks for the index. It really is helpful. The nice thing about it is that it is organized according to topic and section

 

[robject]

Thanks for the index. It really is helpful. The nice thing about it is that it is organized according to topic and section

'Cause that's what I wanted!

But, it's not as complete as I want. But it tries to hit the major stuff.

 

[Hemdian]

I forget what Hemdian's alias is here on CotI...?

Hemdian.

LOL. Thanks to all who said nice things about my videos. I've been thinking of doing a few more.

 

[KDLadage]

Wrote a recent article on my thoughts as they apply to T5.

http://kdladage.hubpages.com/hub/Traveller-5-A-Second-Look

I think there is a great game hidden in that 656 pages...

 

[robject]

Well, I tend to agree with your article. Including its organizational challenges. I'll offer this about the core rules: they're intended to be a writer's bible, a single point for reference.

So, while I can't see it turning into four books, I can see at least one book coming OUT of it, and that's the Player's Guide. It would, more or less, be the "Book 1" which you postulated. And, as Craig commented on your blog, it would probably have an appendix or two of "advanced" material for playing robots, sophonts, chimera, or whatnot. And it would have to have lists of equipment, weapons, armor, vehicles, and ships.

 

[KDLadage]

OK... I was not aware of the "writer's bible" aspect of this book.

This makes the need to (at the very least) pull the rules apart and put them back together into a more logical form. It may alleviate the need to create a "set" of books for the core rules, but it accentuates the need for a Player's Guide.

Let's hope this gets done. I am starting to really want to shift from MgT to T5 ... but in its current state (meaning: almost entirely unavailable), my current player's group will not go for that.

 

[robject]

MgT and T5... well I'm always trying to make sure the two rules aren't completely incompatible. It's nice to be able to use T5 equipment in an MgT game. And, it's nice to be able to run with Mongoose when people know Mongoose, and still use some T5 on the side.

Largely, weapons and armor are inter-convertible, skill levels are roughly on a 2:1 ratio (two T5 skill levels per one MgT skill level, roughly). Starships are a bit less so, but then, starships are usually less important in detail.

 

[yamsi3467]

I think the index the Rob put out is great! I agree the a Player's Handbook would be great! The Core Rules are just to massive from a player's perspective. I think also a Referee's Guide would help because the Referee would have a more usable book of the important rules that he or she needs to run a game. Then, the Core Rules could serve the purpose of "when in doubt, the book prevails!" (a Dr. McCoy reference from TOS Star Trek). The Core Rules could be the final word, so to speak. So, I propose a trinity of Player's Handbook, Referee's Handbook, and Core Rules living in harmony.

Yamsi

 

[KDLadage]

Not sure.

I realize (now) that the core rules are meant to be the "game designer's bible" and I can appreciate that. I do believe, however, that when you have this much information, breaking that out into multiple volumes by default is a good thing.

Not only does such a break up of the material create chunks that are easier to deal with for the players and game masters, but it forces you to think about the organization in ways a single volume simply does not do.

I can appreciate the idea that the alien races and other playable forms (e.g., chimera, robots) might be better organized into the player's book. But I think that the sub-systems which create them are better placed into their own book. But these are personal preferences.

If the powers that be would prefer to have a 650+ page omnibus, so be it. But I would like to see this system become, once again, available. Until then, any discussion of what form it should be in (I guess) is moot.

Keep up the work, gentlemen! I am patient.

 

[robject]

The nice thing about how Marc generated the document -- from a bunch of individual InDesign files -- is that content can be reorganized and repackaged. At least that's how I understand it.

So books can be created from the Core Rules. But, aside from bridging content, I don't think much new material will be written that isn't in the Core Rules, with at least one notable exception (wargaming rules). Ah, except for LISTS, that is. I can see useful lists of weapons, armor, vehicles, and starships.

I agree the a Player's Handbook would be great! The Core Rules are just to massive from a player's perspective. I think also a Referee's Guide would help because the Referee would have a more usable book of the important rules that he or she needs to run a game.

There's two threads for the Player's Guide. I'll mark the longer one as more generally useful and point y'all to it here:

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=32359&highlight=player's