Cultural Extension (Cx): [HASS] Symbols

[Jazzlvraz]

From p.435...

Could someone please teach me how to interpret or to use the value of this field? The other three [HASS] variables--Homogeneity, Acceptance, and Strangeness--while not things one runs into in many games, make themselves clear as to what high or low values mean.

Symbols, however, say:

"Symbols used by the culture may range from the concrete (idols; totems; statuary) to the abstract (symbolized belief systems; group affiliations)."

It's calculated as Tech Level + Flux, with a minimum of 1, but I'm unable to see how a numeric value translates into...pretty much anything. Help, please?

 

[Bloo]

Sokath, his eyes covered.

Kadir beneath Mo Moteh.
Shaka, when the walls fell.
The Beast at Tanagra.
Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.
Picard and Dathon at El-Adrel.

(I don't get it either, but you reminded me of Tamarian, which might be related?

 

[LiminalMask]

From p.435...

Could someone please teach me how to interpret or to use the value of this field? The other three [HASS] variables--Homogeneity, Acceptance, and Strangeness--while not things one runs into in many games, make themselves clear as to what high or low values mean.

Symbols, however, say:

"Symbols used by the culture may range from the concrete (idols; totems; statuary) to the abstract (symbolized belief systems; group affiliations)."

It's calculated as Tech Level + Flux, with a minimum of 1, but I'm unable to see how a numeric value translates into...pretty much anything. Help, please?

This could use some clarification, yes. The text seems to imply symbols refer primarily to representations of knowledge, culture, religion and spirituality. (Idols and totems to 'abstract belief systems'). If we assume that a low Symbols digit means a "very concrete" symbolic society, then I interpret that as a culture that clearly labels and categorizes its beliefs into categories and/or representations. On the other hand, a "very abstract" symbolic society organizes its beliefs in much more fluid and implied ways. Think ancient Greek deities, each ruling over a particular aspect of human understanding (concrete) vs. a culture organized according to philosophical viewpoint, or one where a person's heritage carries with it a host of cultural assumptions that may not be obvious to outsiders (abstract).

I wonder if this is similar to "low-context" vs. "high-context" cultures and if this applies here, or at least, is one way to look at it. Low-context cultures rely on overt and explicit communication to convey meaning, while high-context cultures rely on unspoken understandings to communicate meaning. High-context cultures use words less, relying instead on the knowledge the communicators have of the context the words occur within to understand what is meant. Low-context cultures use more words and tend to be more direct and often overlook the context of the communication. Perhaps this is one way to look at it.

Just because I thought of it, I read a story once that illustrates a high-context cultural communication exchange. I forget which society it was, but it was an Eastern one, which tend to be high-context. Two young people fell in love and wanted to get married, and the man's family invited the woman's family over for dinner. Among the dishes served were rice and star fruit. Everyone enjoyed their meal, had pleasant conversation (never once talking about the marriage one way or another), and left in a friendly manner; yet at the end of the meal, everyone there knew that the marriage would never take place. Why? Because in that culture, you never serve rice and star fruit together. 'These two things do not go together.' For those in the culture, the message was clear in the context. Outsiders of the culture, however, would likely miss the meaning altogether. I know I would have.

Related to this, I have a question about Homogeneity. The rules state that
"Members of very
homogeneous cultures are in strong
agreement on the fundamentals of society
(usually basic rights, religion, and
methods of interaction). Members of
non-homogeneous cultures hold many
different beliefs on the fundamentals of
society."

But what they don't say is whether a low Homogeneity digit is "very" or "non-" homogeneous.

 

[Murdoc]

Actually I've been wondering about this too, as I haven't been able to make heads or tails out of this. LM, I like what you said about high vs. low context cultures, very interesting, and I think that it's on the right track. What I'm thinking is that it is simply and literally the relative amount of symbols in the society. The use of flags, logos, heraldic devices, street signs, traffic lamps, band shirts, fashion styles, the kind of car you drive, the house you live in, jewellery, etc. All these things have meaning beyond the literal. A person in a suit and tie is likely there to do business. A person with a green mohawk haircut is likely fairly rebellious, or like punk music. Travelling in a limo conveys wealth and social status (even if only for the night), etc. Even a dish of rice and star fruit is (in this case) just another symbol with meaning beyond the literal that applies only to that culture. So basically I'm thinking that this rating is supposed to give one an idea of how much a stranger would have to learn about that culture in order to "get along" in it on a daily basis. Coupled with Strangeness that is, which would show how different this culture is from the interstellar norm. As to what the numbers actually mean? Well, I just take it as a relative measure for now. Perhaps it could be used as some sort of mod on social interactions by strangers in that culture.

Bloo, I get the reference, and yes, I think that that would be a good example of a high-context/Symbols culture.

And about Homogeneity, I am unsure about what the scale means too, but if I were to guess, I'd say that higher numbers mean lower homogeneity, which seems counter-intuitive, but it is based on population, and pretty much universally, the higher the population of any natural group (animals, plants, websites), the greater diversity you find. So if that's the case then perhaps it should be called Diversity, or Heterogeneity.

 

[thalassogen]

Spoiler:

Just a little side note: at first I was somewhat "distraught" reading about a HASS cultural extension as "HASS" means "hatred" in German. I am looking forward to the details; those will be absorbed when my book arrives (soonishly). ;-)

 

[the.barwickian]

Soonishly. I like that, and am adding it to my lexicon.

 

[Jazzlvraz]

But what they don't say is whether a low Homogeneity digit is "very" or "non-" homogeneous.

Until I read Murdoc's comment, I was going with high-value being "very", mostly for the directional simplicity. I like his thinking, however, and I may adopt the measure as Heterogeneity instead.

 

[maksimsmelchak]

Does anyone have further clarification on this topic?

** Homogeneity: (Low: harmony established norms) to (High: disagreement disparate norms) about fundamentals of society (usually basic rights, religion, and methods of interaction) = Diversity, or Heterogeneity
** Acceptance: (Low: ?) to (High: ?)
** Strangeness: (Low: ?) to (High: ?)
** Symbols: (Low: ?) to (High: ?)

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[Ackehece]

Does anyone have further clarification on this topic?

** Homogeneity: (Low: harmony established norms) to (High: disagreement disparate norms) about fundamentals of society (usually basic rights, religion, and methods of interaction) = Diversity, or Heterogeneity
** Acceptance: (Low: ?) to (High: ?)
** Strangeness: (Low: ?) to (High: ?)
** Symbols: (Low: ?) to (High: ?)

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

pg 411 t509

Homogeneity: degree to which members of society hold common beliefs.
Acceptance: degree of xenophobia (or xenophilia) in the culture
Strangeness: degree of difference from the norms of interstellar
society. High Strangeness is evidenced by unusual or outwardly incomprehensible actions, statements, or responses in the course daily activity.
Symbols: may range from the concrete (idols; totems; statuary) to the abstract (symbolized belief systems; group affiliations).




I of course am assuming that median flux is considered the normal and thus high or lower would indicate greater levels away from the norm.

Homogeneity Range would be pop + (-5 to +5) normal would be Homogeneity = Pop

Acceptance Range would be Pop + Lx (Lx is world/ Country importance (-3 to +5 according to page 411))
(Higher would be more accepting as they see more traffic from the outside as compared to other polities of the same population)

Strangeness Range would be Flux +5 (so 1 to 10 as 0 =1 in HASS) 5 = normal
outside of this range it could mean something minor such as everyone has a shrine in their house to requiring 5 hours of prayer a day facing the sun and speaking backwards on Thursdays and smoking pipe weed on Fridays. (every played dragon poker???) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Poker

Symbols Range would be Flux +TL (Tl-5 to Tl +5) where Tech level = Symbols would be normal
Stop lights Green not Red, Totem Poles to indicate courts, Eunuchs for the cops indicating not taking sides or judging... A different language depending on social tier etc.

 

[Ackehece]

HOMOGENEITY
H for the US would be low as they have many groups immigrate there Pop -3
H for the city of Toronto would be Ultra Low (welcome to Canada!) Pop -5
H for Japan would be High as they do not allow immigration Pop +4


ACCEPTANCE
A for the US would be HIGH Pop +5 as they are one of the top Trading countries in the world
A for North Korea would be LOW Pop -3 as they don't like visitors and don't allow many outsiders in

(this depends on your world view the next interpretation!)
(western viewpoint)
STRANGENESS
S for the US, Germany, France, Uk would be nearly normalized (Flux +5 where flux would at most be -1 to +1)
S for India would be nearly normalized as well (-2 to +2)
S for Iran would be more strange (-4 to +4) as they have a different governmental basis and social beliefs and religious civil requirements than the western viewpoint

Symbols
Haida First Nation the flux would be at extreme ranges compared to normal western culture (flux would be at the extreme ends (+4 or +5 or -4 or -5)
(totem poles, letters, language are all very uncommon to most)
versus:
French would be considered normal so TL + Flux where flux would be -1 to +1 (aka median range) Common language known world wide, common letters, common traffic signals, common religions

 

[JFGarber]

Homogeneity Range would be pop + (-5 to +5) normal would be Homogeneity = Pop

This seems counter-intuitive to me. At the extreme low end, a pop code of 1 is a family, and they are likely to be both physically and culturally homogeneous. A pop code of A is a high population, with plenty of opportunity for cultural fragmentation--some people are avid gamers, and others just don't get it.

Higher tech codes, where electronic spread of culture can easily bridge distance, will help overcome high pop codes.

I appreciate the thought that you're putting into this, particularly with examples.

 

[Ackehece]

Homogeneity Range would be pop + (-5 to +5) normal would be Homogeneity = Pop

This seems counter-intuitive to me. At the extreme low end, a pop code of 1 is a family, and they are likely to be both physically and culturally homogeneous. A pop code of A is a high population, with plenty of opportunity for cultural fragmentation--some people are avid gamers, and others just don't get it.

Higher tech codes, where electronic spread of culture can easily bridge distance, will help overcome high pop codes.

I appreciate the thought that you're putting into this, particularly with examples.

Flux: (subtract. first die roll from the second die roll) range is 6-1 to 1-6. ( 5 to -5)
Since the average roll is 3.5 (3 or 4) your normal result would be in the range of 3-4 to 4-3 with 3-3 the most common. So the normal range would be -1 to +1
When you apply the expected flux result to the pop code it would indicate H = Pop as the norm.

Flux... it is a zero averaging function