CT Crew Sizes

[altasilvapuer]

So, I don't know if I'm doing some math wrong, or misreading, but the section from High Guard on crew sizes has me rather boggled, right now. When it says, for example,

[The command] section should also have some support personnel, ratings equal to 50% of the total officers in the section. On large ships (over 20,000 tons),the number of personnel in the command section should amount to 5 per 10,000 tons of ship. (p.32)

I have two big questions, here: first, does the 50% mean a numerical 50%? As in, it stats earlier that a ship should have a "commanding officer, an executive officer, a computer officer, two navigation officers, a medical officer, and a communications officer," that totals 7 officers, minimum. Would this then translate to 3.5 ratings? That somehow seems backwards to me. Or does it mean 50% of the combined skill level of those officers or something similar?

Second, when it says the number of personnel in the command section should amount to 5/10ktons, does that mean 5 people, or USP-5 people? There's just a bit of difference, there. I feel like 5 people is probably a little low, but USP-5 is rather high. Same issue with Service Crew, but with different numbers.

So can anyone shed some light on what GDW intended, here? What have you used in your own HG builds?

-aspo:

 

[atpollard]

So, I don't know if I'm doing some math wrong, or misreading, but the section from High Guard on crew sizes has me rather boggled, right now. When it says, for example,

I have two big questions, here: first, does the 50% mean a numerical 50%? As in, it stats earlier that a ship should have a "commanding officer, an executive officer, a computer officer, two navigation officers, a medical officer, and a communications officer," that totals 7 officers, minimum. Would this then translate to 3.5 ratings? That somehow seems backwards to me. Or does it mean 50% of the combined skill level of those officers or something similar?

Second, when it says the number of personnel in the command section should amount to 5/10ktons, does that mean 5 people, or USP-5 people? There's just a bit of difference, there. I feel like 5 people is probably a little low, but USP-5 is rather high. Same issue with Service Crew, but with different numbers.

So can anyone shed some light on what GDW intended, here? What have you used in your own HG builds?

-aspo:

1. that totals 7 officers, minimum. Would this then translate to 3.5 ratings?
Yes.

2. the number of personnel in the command section should amount to 5/10ktons, does that mean 5 people?
Yes.

 

[BytePro]

... Would this then translate to 3.5 ratings?

Three regular and one midget, or throw one out at midpoint... that should encourage performance in the others!

(atpollard sounds correct)

 

[Winterwolf]

Actually three have ration and quarters for the whole trip. the half only gets quarters and rations for half the trip. the half also has to get out and walk the last half of the trip.

 

[Matt123]

Might be a hangover from that ancient Terran tradition where Captains get to have a Cabin Boy

 

[Icosahedron]

Yes, my reading of this is that with 7 Command Crew, you would have 3 or 4 ratings. A 40kt ship would have 20 command crew and 10 ratings.

IMTU (and I suspect the original intent of GDW) the ratings are only those directly assigned to the Command Section (eg aides to senior officers, etc). The rest of the bridge and sickbay crew (computer operators, orderlies, etc) are drawn from the Service Crew component.

 

[shield]

Service crew is 2 per 1000ktns + 1 more pulling security duty if you are not carrying marines or a dedicated troop unit. Of these a certain % will be officers, a larger % NCOs and the rest ratings

 

[Matt123]

Yes, my reading of this is that with 7 Command Crew, you would have 3 or 4 ratings. A 40kt ship would have 20 command crew and 10 ratings.

The 5/10kton ratio covers personal for the 'Command Section", the Officers will be 2/3 of that and ratings 1/3. The 40kton ship would have 20 in the Command section, with say 13 Officers and 7 ratings.

 

[Icosahedron]

The 5/10kton ratio covers personal for the 'Command Section", the Officers will be 2/3 of that and ratings 1/3. The 40kton ship would have 20 in the Command section, with say 13 Officers and 7 ratings.

Oops. Well spotted, you are correct there. It's been a while since I designed a new ship...

 

[far-trader]

...right, I thought I was disagreeing but misread a couple replies above, so actually I guess I'm just restating (COFFEE JUICE! STAT!!)

Command Section: The ship should have... The section should also have... ratings equal to 50% of the total officers in the section.

Clearly, this means the support ratings are in addition to the officers. The total should be 7 officers plus 50% of that (an additional 3.5) ratings. This is for ships up to 20Ktons, and given the following bit for large ships (see below) I round down to 10 crew in the command section. The listed 7 officers and 3 ratings (aides). Though I tend to make them Ensigns.

Command Section: On large ships (over 20,000 tons), the number of personnel in the command section should amount to 5 per 10,000 tons of ship.

So note the first part gives 5 per 10,000 tons up to the 20,000 tons (taken as a minimum) with 7 officers and 3 ratings. While the second part is a flat 5 per 10,000 tons for over 20,000 tons. For example a 40,000 ton ship would be 20 personnel (14 officers and 6 ratings total the way I round it, functionally 7 officers and 3 ratings per 10Ktons).

That's how I've long read it...

...of course I still don't get my crew numbers to add up to the listed ones in Supp 9

If editing for clarification in the errata works (and if I'm correct) the whole thing could be much clearer stated as simply:

"Command Section: On ships over 1,000 tons the number of personnel in the command section should amount to 5 per 10,000 tons of ship with a minimum crewing of 10 personnel. Of this 70% are officers (commanding, executive, computer, piloting, navigation, medical, and communications) and 30% are ratings (support personnel - aides and trainees)."

EDIT: Edited the above because technically it's on ships over 1,000tons per the rules, ships under that use Book 2.

Again I'll say, a good example is worth more than a page full of rules in clarifying intent.

 

[Enoki]

The 5/10kton ratio covers personal for the 'Command Section", the Officers will be 2/3 of that and ratings 1/3. The 40kton ship would have 20 in the Command section, with say 13 Officers and 7 ratings.

Yea! That's the ticket! Two managers for every worker! That will ensure lots of things get done.

 

[Matt123]

If editing for clarification in the errata works (and if I'm correct) the whole thing could be much clearer stated as simply:

"Command Section: On ships over 1,000 tons the number of personnel in the command section should amount to 5 per 10,000 tons of ship with a minimum crewing of 10 personnel. Of this 70% are officers (commanding, executive, computer, piloting, navigation, medical, and communications) and 30% are ratings (support personnel - aides and trainees)."

I would suggest making it a little more granular.

"...command section should amount to 1 per 2000 tons of ship, with a minimum of 10 personal..."

I've always rounded the 3.5 up for 11 crew minimum, but I can't get supplement 9 crews to match either...

 

[Icosahedron]

Yea! That's the ticket! Two managers for every worker! That will ensure lots of things get done.

Well, this is the command section after all - one secretary between two managers don't seem too bad to me. As I said above, the workers come from the service section.

 

[pendragonman]

Yea! That's the ticket! Two managers for every worker! That will ensure lots of things get done.

This is the COMMAND section. The whole ship, especially the service/support section, is not nearly this topheavy. Just ask anyone who has been in any navy how topheavy the command section is.

 

[Dragoner]

IMTU space navies are all very top heavy, vacuuming the carpet (swabbing the deck) is done by little vacuuming robots, not personel. Ratings are mostly apprentice Officers and Officers are highly educated in their technical fields.

 

[Matt123]

IMTU & RL most of the technicians are non-commissioned officers. Highly respected for their expertise and qualifications, but not part of "management" which requires a different skill set.

For example your typical drive rating will be highly qualified on Drives and generally working to get even higher qualifications. His NCO supervisors will have most of those qualifications plus lots of experience. The senior Drive NCOs will have all that, plus training and experience in adjacent systems and man-management. He will report to an Engineering officer if the department is big enough, or a Bridge officer if he is in sole charge, either of which will manage the department ensuring it is fully staffed, has all the equipment it needs to function, deal with disciplinary issues and make executive decisions when problems impact the performance of the ship as a whole (eg: prioritizing damage repairs).

Ratings tend to specialize in one aspect of the system. Senior NCO's run one aspect of the system (due to being highly qualified & experienced).

Officers tend not to specialize, but they are generally highly educated. Most endeavor to change departments often and strive to get a systems wide overview. They do not need to know the finer points of Drive maintenance or repair, but do need to be able to monitor the Drive ratings they will trust in their training, qualifications and performance. If an executive decision is required, an Officer needs make a decision that is appropriate for the system as a whole (which could be a department, ship, task force, fleet, or Navy), in the context of the current mission.

 

[Dragoner]

I feel rank is mostly pay scale and then command structure, which goes back to a table of organization.

 

[Easterner9504]

Off Their Meds

When did medical personnel join the command staff?

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

When did medical personnel join the command staff?

since Star trek made Dr. Mcoy a major character.

 

[McPerth]

When did medical personnel join the command staff?

I guess that's the meaning of being in command or staff in chargen. Even so, Medical personnel, if there's enough of them, will surely have their own command line (as will other specialist branches, as judicial, etc.).

In MT, though, command personnel depends on the size of the crew, not the ship (and, BTW, medical personnel, along with stewards (as service crew is called in MT) are not counted to determine the size of command crew).