CT Computers

[Jame]

How do CT computers work, like using data tapes as opposed to 3 1/2 in. floppy disks? Are they anything like the old computers, where you have to use data tapes, and whatever's on them at that moment?

And how are they different from modern computers, which store the information inside?

 

[Ben W Bell]

Freelance Traveller has posted a very good idea on how computers work in Traveller and how they are different to our view of computers.

Freelance Traveller Computers

 

[Jame]

Thanks for the link.

 

[Uncle Bob]

But the Stempel architecture is potentially very powerful, which doesn't explain why CT ships computers are huge ... and stupid.

Unfortunately, it boils down to CT computer rules were written before the microchip revolution, and have never been revised.

I have proposed some minor rules changes to fix the computers, and other posters have suggested explanations (which I found unsatisfactory) to make the canon rules palatable. Use the search function at the top of the page for "computers".

 

[Tanuki]

You can pack pretty much everything you need for the average desktop computer into a package about the size of a paperback book -- or smaller. So how much room do you need to install a desktop into a home? Well, there's that big 19" monitor and a desk and room to park a chair and room for all those CDs and DVDs and suchlike. The actual computer core occupies a fraction of the space you NEED to USE it.

I work in a computer center. Again, the actual size of a server/computer core is pretty small. But by the time you add the cabinet it lives in, a monitor/keyboard, access room to get at the thing, Uninterrruptable Power Supply in case of power failure, and room to access the whole assembly for maintenance, you're talking a fair bit of volume -- much of it necessary empty space.

Now add two more core systems for redundent backup, mass storage for all that library data and navigational data, and stuff, a backup device and storage for the backups (What? You don't bother with backups? Oh, Murphy... heh heh heh...) -- and don't forget spare parts: an extra mother board, power supply, ram and mass storage -- and a dton for a basic starship computer doesn't sound so excessive after all.

Now add additional terminals, storage, and core systems for a larger ship and size will go up.

I don't find the computer size requirements for Traveller to be all that much out of line. Can you fit all that into a palm pilot or a laptop? Possibly. Have you ever had to do maintenance on a palm or a laptop? I have.

Access and reliability -- if my palm fails I can go buy another one and restore most of what was in it (assuming I back it up regularly). If I'm thirty AU out and my computer dies, I'm going to need to be able to cobble things back together so I can limp back to where I can get help. If I'm two parsecs out I'd BETTER be able to put things back together somehow or I'm dead.

I've never assumed that starship computer space is a large brick of circuitry. IMHO it includes redundancy, required access space to use and repair the thing, spare parts, mass storage, and all the other crap needed for a complex computer system to do (and keep doing) what is needed.

 

[Keklas Rekobah]

Don't forget triple redundancy for every system, subsystem, sensor, cable, power supply, data file, and software utility.

Radiation shielding?
EMP protection?

An adaptor for every version of every piece of hardware ever made AND the various versions (rip-offs) of those devices within a single empire.

Not to mention the interface and control requirements for every square centimeter of the ship's hull, where the jump drive grid is located, so that you can actually control your ship's jump vector.

"A starship is a device weighing more than 100 metric tonnes, designed to transport a computer chip weighing less than 100 milligrams from one star system to another." (me)

 

[Uncle Bob]

Most of the peripherals belong on the bridge. I have worked in IT too and at this moment I am using a KVM switch to control the equivalent of a network of two Computer 3 and a Computer 2 from a single workstation, alltogether the size of a phone booth.

Not all ships have an IT department, so space for repairs and spare parts is not necessarily included in the computer. Computers are sometimes assumed to have responsabilities for regulating the engines and life support, but this is untrue because other subsystem suffor no ill-effects if the computer is destroyed.

Book 2 has well defined computer programs which give us an understanding of what a computers power really means. The size, power and cost of TL6 computers match well with the Apollo on board computer. TL7 computers have size and capabilities consistant with the PDP-12 and IBM mainframes. But a TL 8 computer is as big as a Cray or server farm has no more capability than a fairly quick 286.

Obviously something drastic happens to technology around TL8 that Traveller did not anticipate. That is the time of the microchip revolution. Traveler extrapolated the linear growth of computing power from 1940-70 instead of anticipating the exponential growth from 1975-2000+.

BTW, the rules say that a TL 6 computer can calculate a jump, so if there is a mystical sensor net controlling the jump it must be part of the jump percentage, NOT the computer. Radiation shielding? The wetware is much more vulnerable. EMP shielding? Only adds a few kilos if you design for it from the start.

The Traveller computer rules are broken, plain and simple. Either suck it up and live with it or use home brew rules to work around it, but don't try to alibi it.

 

[Elliot]

I hate writing dittos but Traveller computer rules cannot be explained by saying the plugs and wires make up the difference. They dont! BROKE.BUST.CONKED OUT.DEFUNCT.CHANGE IT.NOW.

 

[mad13142000]

I was looking for an article on Banking...
I couldn't find it, but I did find an article on computers in Dragon VI #1 from July 1981...
Yeah, the rules are broken in CT...
But the same issue had the most amazing article by Marc Miller on Milk Bottles in the Traveller Universe (I am NOT making this up)

later
-MADDog

 

[Uncle Bob]

It is not that bad. If you are using Book 5 rules and ignoring the program rules the most serious game effect was the die modifier for targeting.

I assume the bridge volume includes the computer, and the "computer" percentage is actually an enhanced sonsor suite.

 

[mad13142000]

I don't know... Granted, just because a computer takes up x cubic meters doesn't mean it weighs x tons. Still, I've had a PC since the 5150 (with a serial # begining with 3 zeros) but I currently have a Pocket PC that has what I would have thought in 1980 was an impossible level of performance. I mean, it has 64MB RAM, 32MB ROM, and currently has another 144MB of CF/SD storage...It has every word written by David Weber, along with every song recorded by U2..I mean a LOT of data...AND it out performs my PC on a number of levels...Why would I think that with the release of IBM's new Mainframe computer that BLOWS AWAY PC's, in 2 or 3 THOUSAND YEARS we will still have to put up with computers that are so massive or unwieldy.
The OTU takes place 3500 years in the future. Are we to believe that there is no Optical or Quantum Dot computing? We were supposed to have HAL (an AI level computer) by this time, according to other Sci-Fi writers of the time. Even assuming that Solomani are behind the curve, surely the Imperium will have more effective computers by Imperial year 1100. Crystal holography storage, Optical or Quantum processors, even Temporal processors...computers in CT should be VERY potent by the time CT takes place. Even if your computer has ever known star, and all thier associated astrographic data, I don't believe that they would be as massive as they are described in the rules...
of course it is a ref's opinion....

-MADDog

 

[Jame]

So, the main difference between CT computers and real computers are microchips in RL?

 

[sandman]

Personally, I can live with Traveller computers if it makes the game experience something else than Cyberpunk...

One must not forget that in the "basic" traveller sense, uberpowerfull computer would ruin many things.

But then, if one likes to play Cyber-Traveller, I say "Go for it".

I'll keep my games where computers aren't the SuperTool to get the players out of trouble.

 

[Uncle Bob]

Sandman, realistic computer rules don't have to feel like Cyberpunk. Relitively minor fixes will solve the ship computer. Net rules are a different matter, but nets are compartmentalized by the speed of light (i.e. your cuberpunk "Avatar" is going o be crippled by the 3 second delay between even the Earth and Luna. I just don't go there.

I'll give you that, Elliott. Remember my first computer (the one I used to write the Unfinished Thesis in the 1980s) had 64 K RAM, no HD and only the OS in ROM. The Apollo navigation computer had an incredible 48K (incredible for the 1960s). But traveller just missed Moore's Law.

But in terms of game effects a ship's computer handles navigation and combat targeting, +1/lvl (High Guard rules) So I assume that those functions are handled by dedicated processors, either on the bridge or weapons themselves. The tonnage in ship design ultimately only affects targetting so I keep the DTons the same and assume it is a sensor suite. The only real difference in game terms is on my deckplans where I make sure my sensors (that were "computer") have access to the outer hull.

My "Ships Computer" is a processing unit that serves as a router for the dedicated processors, a server for mass storage, but mostly as a crew interface. It is a minor part (0.5 dton? 0.01 Dton? I won't say so I won't be wrong) of the bridge percentage. I wrote the following as gudelines for the interface. They could be extended to robots, come to think of it.

Uncle Bob said,
These interfaces were generally standard on computers at the appropriate TL, no extra cost. They were first introduced on dedicated research machines, +1 TL on ship and office computers, +2 TL on personal computers, +3 TL on handheld computers. (ie, at TL 13 your Ships computer may be an AI, and you're pocket PDA would have an Artificial Personality.

Punchcards & teletype (TL5)

Keyboard & CRT (TL6)

Verbal Interface (TL7) Just uses verbal commands and spoken responses instead of the keyboard. Think classic Star Trek. I used maritime protocals to prevent mistakes from misinterpreted orders (if it works shouting orders in a gale, it should work for a dumb machine on a quiet bridge.)
For example, "Shut down engines"
Shut down power plant, aye
"Belay that! Secure the MANEUVER drive."
Belay shut down power plant, Secure maneuver drive, aye.
pause
Maneuver drive is secured

Artificial Personality (TL9) Adds social amenities, but may not always be appropriate (like the ship in Hitch Hikers Guide). Seldom used for crew functions, but often for PDA.
Good morning, Ms Vanaprul, this is the morning of your seventh day on "The Duchess of Regina", and thank you for choosing Tukhera lines, the safest way to travel in the Spinward Marches. Breakfast is now being served in the lounge, or a continental breakfast can be sent to your room. The Captain asked me to tell you that we did not come out of jump as expected last night, and that may cause some inconvenience. Have a GREAT day.

Artificial Intelligence (TL12) The computer is aware of it's environment and can draw conclusions and make appropriate choices, but, like an idiot savant, only in some areas. Like Hal 9000,
We have a problem in engineering, Captain. I know we have been using it heavily, but following the guidelines programmed at the last overhaul, I am shutting down the maneuver drive for repairs.
With expert systems (and sometimes a manipulator or robot) installed it can act as a crewman in an emergency at a skill level 1/2 the expert program.

Self Aware (TL14) We are talking about a full silicon-germanium NPC here. Its feelings can be hurt (although it also has professionalism) and with social skills even.
When I was fixing the coolant leak after the Pirates chased us, I saw some suspicious tool marks on the fittings. Captain, I know the manager of Smithson's Shiprights is a friend of yours, but the pirates may have bribed one of his techs. I suggest we get our repairs done in a different yard this time.
A self aware computer can take full advantage of Expert systems, and may or may not pass port clearance regulations as a crewman.

At TL16 we can have fully automated ships.

You can also buy "expert systems" that will assist a player with specialist knowledge and proceedures.
If the PC has no expertise in that field but a basic understanding of the tools and equipment (i.e. a Engineer trying to Navigate, etc), he can perform as if he had a skill of 1/2 the program level. If the character has at least one level of the appropriate skill he can use his skill or the programs skill, whichever is higher.
TL applies to engineering programs: -1 for ecery 2 TL higher, -1 for every 3 TL lower. I.e., a +2 TL10 program is +1 with a TL12 or TL13 drive, no help with a TL14+. A +2 TL14 pogram is only +1 with an old TL8-11 drive

Price varied. Ship skills were about a 100KCr/level.

NOTE: these are probably as broken as the original rules, but good Lord willing and river don't rise, we won't know that for another generation. They are already twenty years old and holding up.

 

[mad13142000]

No, not Cyberpunk. Although there is a lot of data mining involved in many of the Trav adventures I've encountered. My point is simply that the existing CT rules are inadequate to describe the computers that would exist 3500 years in the future. I agree that the game designers used a linear devo curve instead of the real-life log curve. Think about the computers that existed in the late 70's. They were HUGE, relied on old silicon tech, were WATER cooled, and DID take up tons of floor space/volume. Today, only 25 years later we have computers like this:
http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/zseries/990.html
This is the T-Rex, and no PC could ever come close to its performance. The computer in Star Trek was supposed to be a massive, multi-ton installation, but it also had the ability to hold every piece of info humaniti had, in addition to running the ship, and being able to give 'life' to the multiple holodecks, etc...
If I have a far trader, I don't have that much need. I have my navigation and jump, some electronics and sensors, maybe some weaponry...not a whole lot of actual programs. I just don't think that a computer in the far furure would need to be as big, or have such performance penalties as the ones described in the rules.

later
-MADDog

 

[Jame]

The campaign I'm writing up (if at odd, irregular intervals) has true AI at tl 15, and it needs quantum computers, which no 200-300 dton free trader will ever hold or need... Now, the 50,000 dton cruisers could hold one, or a few, and might have need for them. I'm sort of wondering how the CT rules might be reworked to make use of modern computer designs.

 

[TKalbfus]

Now, the 50,000 dton cruisers could hold one

Man oh man! You want to build a 50,000 dton robot? Why don't you just buy an AI from the Darrian Confederation? AI is TL16, I'm sure at the right price they can scrounge up one for you out of the ruins. It just seems like such a waste to fill up a 50,000 dton cruiser with one computer. Where are you going to put the weapons?

 

[Jame]

No, I mean that a 50,000 dton ship would have not only enough space, but enough power and armor, to hold one in addition to its normal load.