CT+ Computers
- Thread starter Jame
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mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Is that similar to the way T4 does it?
I'll have to go and check...
I'll have to go and check...
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
That is a very good point and one that needs to be fixed in some way.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
My fix for that involves the Logic and Command programming of T20 (which I do like). I have yet to simplify it though. Basically in the case of a model/1bis the basic TL7 version would be a GUI command interface and Low Basic Logic, while the TL11 version would be Full Verbal Command and Low Autonomous Logic.
There should probably be some speed advatage too, again how to implement it simply is the key. Maybe a simple initiative DM based on the difference of the TLs?
There should probably be some speed advatage too, again how to implement it simply is the key. Maybe a simple initiative DM based on the difference of the TLs?
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I like it.
It's similar to what's in LBB:8 as well.
Should the DMs you get from programs for ship combat be TL dependent?
By that I mean a predict 1 program may be TL8 say, while preddict 2 could be TL10.
Those are just numbers for the example by the way, a little more thought is needed on this one
It's similar to what's in LBB:8 as well.
Should the DMs you get from programs for ship combat be TL dependent?
By that I mean a predict 1 program may be TL8 say, while preddict 2 could be TL10.
Those are just numbers for the example by the way, a little more thought is needed on this one
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
I like that idea of TLs for programs too Sigg. In fact if there were enough program TL diversity there wouldn't be a need for a computer TL DM, it would all come down to the programming available. That might work.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
I must go browse Robots again, I'd forgotten they did it very like that there
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I wonder if we can build computers as a collection of programs plus expansion slots?
If the current computer size is changed to represent sensors etc. then the computer core becomes effectively invisible to dt acounting due to:
its small size
and
its components being built into each subsystem
i.e the computer core is really there to coordinate what all the other machines in the ship are doing and to act as an interface with the crew.
If the current computer size is changed to represent sensors etc. then the computer core becomes effectively invisible to dt acounting due to:
its small size
and
its components being built into each subsystem
i.e the computer core is really there to coordinate what all the other machines in the ship are doing and to act as an interface with the crew.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Hmm, that kinda ties with another thought just developing. What about stripping the model number from the TL?
So you could have any model number from TL5 to TL15. Each model number would still cost the same and take the same space. You would have the model number as a combat effective bonus like in HG but with the addition of a TL difference modifier.
Programs would likewise be TL rated and running a program would require the same TL or better of Computer. Included in this would be a CT Program version of the Command and Logic program structure.
Actual program spaces would be dependant on TL and not model number so a TL5 model/1 would have fewer program spaces than a TL11 model/1.
An interesting possibility this way is using a TL13 model/1 for doing running a Jump-4 plot for example. And it makes a TL15 10ton Fighter with a model/1 a serious combat craft with all it's program spaces.
Sound like a way to go? Problems I'm not seeing at this early stage? Maybe just too big a change?
I think it's pretty clear but I'll see about hacking up a table of the computers here.
This also brings up the currency issue again. Some kind of TL exchange rate is needed to make buying low tech attractive. Something like saying all book prices are TL15 Credits and buying below TL15 is a 5% discount per step maybe? So TL9 is a 30% discount for example. Too much? Too little? A different thread?
So you could have any model number from TL5 to TL15. Each model number would still cost the same and take the same space. You would have the model number as a combat effective bonus like in HG but with the addition of a TL difference modifier.
Programs would likewise be TL rated and running a program would require the same TL or better of Computer. Included in this would be a CT Program version of the Command and Logic program structure.
Actual program spaces would be dependant on TL and not model number so a TL5 model/1 would have fewer program spaces than a TL11 model/1.
An interesting possibility this way is using a TL13 model/1 for doing running a Jump-4 plot for example. And it makes a TL15 10ton Fighter with a model/1 a serious combat craft with all it's program spaces.
Sound like a way to go? Problems I'm not seeing at this early stage? Maybe just too big a change?
I think it's pretty clear but I'll see about hacking up a table of the computers here.
This also brings up the currency issue again. Some kind of TL exchange rate is needed to make buying low tech attractive. Something like saying all book prices are TL15 Credits and buying below TL15 is a 5% discount per step maybe? So TL9 is a 30% discount for example. Too much? Too little? A different thread?
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
And yes I think this should be THE COMPUTER and not some sensors/comms/avionics deal. That belongs properly in the bridge tonnage and cost imo.
Let's keep THE COMPUTER the thing what runs the programs that make the things work better
What I mean is CT has two levels of sensors and comms, civilian and military. The computer was not the deciding factor in those ranges. Nothing actually was except the designation of military or not. I can see making a military designation double the cost of the bridge or something, maybe.
I always just handwaved it as included, like the difference between Scout Drives, Navy Drives, and Civilian Drives. It's not so much that the actual items are better built as better maintained and operated with more training, neither of which requires that the item be bigger or cost more. Just another opinion of course
What I mean is CT has two levels of sensors and comms, civilian and military. The computer was not the deciding factor in those ranges. Nothing actually was except the designation of military or not. I can see making a military designation double the cost of the bridge or something, maybe.
I always just handwaved it as included, like the difference between Scout Drives, Navy Drives, and Civilian Drives. It's not so much that the actual items are better built as better maintained and operated with more training, neither of which requires that the item be bigger or cost more. Just another opinion of course
Alright, I'll try again.
The Book 2 rules are BROKEN. Until we fix them computer literate gamers will continue to discount Traveller as serious SF. That may only be 5% of gamers, but it is easily 25% of our demographic.
They make sense as game rules in the abstract, and show a good understanding of where data processing was in 1970. The microchip revolution knocked that all in the head, making the jump from TL6 to 7 several orders of magnitude. And TL7 to 8 at least two more. So if a 1 ton TL6 computer can run 1 program a 1 ton TL7 computer can run a at least a hundred (for the same cost) and TL8 ten thousand at least. Which if a 1 space program is judged to be a real-space navigation program is entirely reasonable.
Beyond that we are getting close to speed-of-light limitations on computing power, so future improvement in computing power, whatever the technology used, will require that the gates be closer together and thus the whole computer smaller.
The extra programing power means you can get away with programing bloat. Which means you can add extra, unnecessary capabilities to the program. One example would by the "year 2K" disasters that didn't happen. Most TL6 programs used only two digits to identify years (55, 68, 74, etc) to save space in the data registers, and were unable to tell the difference between 00 (1900) and 00 (2000). In real world there were few problems because TL7 progrms were mostly written to store four digit numbers, because they ran on computers with more speed and memory. The older programs were easily rewritten because they now ran on more powerful machines.
And I haven't touched on how object oriented languages, modular design, and database use have changed programing. And computer intrusion has divided into hackers and script kiddies, white hats and black hats,
To make an analogy, it would be as if Traveller guns never made the jump to metallic cartridges at TL4. So TL5 small arms were 10 shot cap 'n ball revolvers and machine guns were heavy Gatlings loading paper cartridges with seperate caps. And higher TL used better propellants and lighter metals, but never quite got the hang of an all-in-one cartridge. Meanwhile, players who are gun nuts or military veterans wonder where their auto pistols and assault rifles are.
In brief,
At TL7+ computers, up to the limits of the technology, become trivial compared to the 20+ ton bridge slice. At higher TL the more powerful computers will not be bigger.
Programs at TL8 + are so sophisticated they are written by teams of programmers over months. And sufficiently generalized (to amortize over a large market) that they can work for a number of people in different places with only a change in a datafile. At higher TL computers will program themselves with limited human guidance.
Keeping the computer percentage and making it sensor enhancement keeps Book5 combat and the canon designs. The other proposals either do not address the underlying concerns or are band-aids. The GT and T4 fixes risk being out of date in a very few years, if they aren't already.
I admit I think a complete rewrite of the rules, trivialising computers and applying weight and cost penalties for military and scout sensors would be preferable, but that would break the cannon designs and still break Book2and Mayday combat.
The Book 2 rules are BROKEN. Until we fix them computer literate gamers will continue to discount Traveller as serious SF. That may only be 5% of gamers, but it is easily 25% of our demographic.
They make sense as game rules in the abstract, and show a good understanding of where data processing was in 1970. The microchip revolution knocked that all in the head, making the jump from TL6 to 7 several orders of magnitude. And TL7 to 8 at least two more. So if a 1 ton TL6 computer can run 1 program a 1 ton TL7 computer can run a at least a hundred (for the same cost) and TL8 ten thousand at least. Which if a 1 space program is judged to be a real-space navigation program is entirely reasonable.
Beyond that we are getting close to speed-of-light limitations on computing power, so future improvement in computing power, whatever the technology used, will require that the gates be closer together and thus the whole computer smaller.
The extra programing power means you can get away with programing bloat. Which means you can add extra, unnecessary capabilities to the program. One example would by the "year 2K" disasters that didn't happen. Most TL6 programs used only two digits to identify years (55, 68, 74, etc) to save space in the data registers, and were unable to tell the difference between 00 (1900) and 00 (2000). In real world there were few problems because TL7 progrms were mostly written to store four digit numbers, because they ran on computers with more speed and memory. The older programs were easily rewritten because they now ran on more powerful machines.
And I haven't touched on how object oriented languages, modular design, and database use have changed programing. And computer intrusion has divided into hackers and script kiddies, white hats and black hats,
To make an analogy, it would be as if Traveller guns never made the jump to metallic cartridges at TL4. So TL5 small arms were 10 shot cap 'n ball revolvers and machine guns were heavy Gatlings loading paper cartridges with seperate caps. And higher TL used better propellants and lighter metals, but never quite got the hang of an all-in-one cartridge. Meanwhile, players who are gun nuts or military veterans wonder where their auto pistols and assault rifles are.
In brief,
At TL7+ computers, up to the limits of the technology, become trivial compared to the 20+ ton bridge slice. At higher TL the more powerful computers will not be bigger.
Programs at TL8 + are so sophisticated they are written by teams of programmers over months. And sufficiently generalized (to amortize over a large market) that they can work for a number of people in different places with only a change in a datafile. At higher TL computers will program themselves with limited human guidance.
Keeping the computer percentage and making it sensor enhancement keeps Book5 combat and the canon designs. The other proposals either do not address the underlying concerns or are band-aids. The GT and T4 fixes risk being out of date in a very few years, if they aren't already.
I admit I think a complete rewrite of the rules, trivialising computers and applying weight and cost penalties for military and scout sensors would be preferable, but that would break the cannon designs and still break Book2and Mayday combat.
NOTE: I originally posted this in the CT+ topic in the CT forum, but as Sigg pointed out, it should go here as well. Note also that I put in a few edits so it could be understood in and of itself.
This's getting a bit more technical than I had planned, but here goes. (Keep in mind that I hadn't thought much besides my initial statement.)
The other reason that I wanted to significantly reduce size is that a Tl 9 model/1 will have an extremely better display model than a Tl 5 one.
An example: the computer I'm using, and expect that most if not all of you are using, is (even though it could be a model/1) small enough to fit on top of my desk, has a monitor that can display alphanumeric text and translate the software necessary to view CotI. The controls are a keyboard, two buttons (monitor- and hard disk-power) and the knob for the speakers.
In Charlestown (MA/USA), there is a WW2-era destroyer named the Cassin Young, and its computer takes up a space roughly the size of my dining room (no, I don't know the dimensions, but I'm sure they look the same). This computer is good only for plotting trajectories and fire-control data for the main guns. Its controls consist entirely of knobs and switches, and it doesn't have a single monitor or bit of software, nor keyboard.
Theoretically, both are model/1s, but mine is a quantum leap beyond the destroyers.
The kind of computer I'd expect to run things for a starship would be a server roughly the size of the desk upon which my PC rests, and that's maybe three feet squared (bear with me; I have no intention of measuring). And the purpose of this server would, I imagine, be to centralize all the various, specialized desktop-type computers that take care of all the various functions, i.e. sensors and life support, which would have some processors of their own so as to forgo reliance on the central processor. It won't weigh one ton - it'll weigh less, and the rest of that ton could be sensors, wiring and access space.
Maybe I'm running a bit long, and I'm sure I forgot something, but this is pretty much how I feel.
This's getting a bit more technical than I had planned, but here goes. (Keep in mind that I hadn't thought much besides my initial statement.)
The other reason that I wanted to significantly reduce size is that a Tl 9 model/1 will have an extremely better display model than a Tl 5 one.
An example: the computer I'm using, and expect that most if not all of you are using, is (even though it could be a model/1) small enough to fit on top of my desk, has a monitor that can display alphanumeric text and translate the software necessary to view CotI. The controls are a keyboard, two buttons (monitor- and hard disk-power) and the knob for the speakers.
In Charlestown (MA/USA), there is a WW2-era destroyer named the Cassin Young, and its computer takes up a space roughly the size of my dining room (no, I don't know the dimensions, but I'm sure they look the same). This computer is good only for plotting trajectories and fire-control data for the main guns. Its controls consist entirely of knobs and switches, and it doesn't have a single monitor or bit of software, nor keyboard.
Theoretically, both are model/1s, but mine is a quantum leap beyond the destroyers.
The kind of computer I'd expect to run things for a starship would be a server roughly the size of the desk upon which my PC rests, and that's maybe three feet squared (bear with me; I have no intention of measuring). And the purpose of this server would, I imagine, be to centralize all the various, specialized desktop-type computers that take care of all the various functions, i.e. sensors and life support, which would have some processors of their own so as to forgo reliance on the central processor. It won't weigh one ton - it'll weigh less, and the rest of that ton could be sensors, wiring and access space.
Maybe I'm running a bit long, and I'm sure I forgot something, but this is pretty much how I feel.
I see the bridge computer as an array of processors responsible for maneuver, navigation and security. There is also a "backbone" that links those processors, the sensors, communications, engineering, LSS, and the bridge interfaces.
To ad more "flavor" the bridge interface becomes more sophisticated at higher tech levels. The interface is generally standard on computers at the appropriate TL, no extra cost. They were first introduced on big dedicated machines, +1 TL on ship and office computers, +2 TL on personal computers, +3 TL on handheld computers. (ie, at TL 13 your Ships computer may be an AI, and you're pocket PDA would have an Artificial Personality.
Punchcards & teletype TL5
Keyboard & CRT TL6-
Verbal Interface (TL7) Just uses verbal commands and spoken responses instead of the keyboard. Think classic Star Trek. I used maritime protocals to prevent mistakes from misinterpreted orders (if it works shouting orders in a gale, it should work for a dumb machine on a quiet bridge.)
For example, "Shut down engines"
"Shut down power plant, aye"
"Belay that! Secure the MANEUVER drive."
"Secure maneuver drive, aye."
pause
"Maneuver drive is secured"
Artificial Personality (TL9) Adds social amenities, but may not always be appropriate (like the ship in Hitch Hikers Guide). Seldom used for crew functions, but often for PDA.
"Good morning, Ms Vanaprul, this is the morning of your seventh day on "The Duchess of Regina", and thank you for choosing Tukhera lines, the safest way to travel in the Spinward Marches. Breakfast is now being served in the lounge, or a continental breakfast can be sent to your room. The Captain asked me to tell you that we did not come out of jump as expected last night, and that may cause some inconvenience. Have a GREAT day."
Artificial Intelligence TL12 The computer is aware of it's environment and can draw conclusions and make appropriate choices, but, like an idiot savant, only in some areas. Like Hal 9000, "We have a problem in engineering. I know we have been using it heavily, but following the guidelines programmed at the last overhaul, I am shutting down the maneuver drive for repairs." With expert systems (and sometimes a manipulator or robot) installed it can act as a crewman in an emergency at a skill level 1/2 the expert program.
Self Aware TL 14 We are talking about a full silicon-germanium NPC here. Its feelings can be hurt (although it also has professionalism) and with social skills even. "When I was fixing the coolant leak after the Pirates chased us, I saw some suspicious tool marks on the fittings. Captain, I know the manager of Smithson's Shiprights is a friend of yours, but the pirates may have bribed one of his techs. I suggest we get our repairs done in a different yard this time." A self aware computer can take full advantage of Expert systems, and may or may not pass port clearance regulations as a crewman.
At TL16 we can have fully automated ships.
You can also buy "expert systems" that will assist a player with specialist knowledge and proceedures.
If the PC has no expertise in that field but a basic understanding of the tools and equipment (i.e. a Engineer trying to Navigate, etc), he can perform as if he had a skill of 1/2 the program level. If the character has at least one level of the appropriate skill he can use his skill or the programs skill, whichever is higher.
TL applies to engineering programs: -1 for ecery 2 TL higher, -1 for every 3 TL lower. I.e., a +2 TL10 program is +1 with a TL12 or TL13 drive, no help with a TL14+. A +2 TL14 pogram is only +1 with an old TL8-11 drive
Price varied. Ship skills were about a 100KCr/level.
To ad more "flavor" the bridge interface becomes more sophisticated at higher tech levels. The interface is generally standard on computers at the appropriate TL, no extra cost. They were first introduced on big dedicated machines, +1 TL on ship and office computers, +2 TL on personal computers, +3 TL on handheld computers. (ie, at TL 13 your Ships computer may be an AI, and you're pocket PDA would have an Artificial Personality.
Punchcards & teletype TL5
Keyboard & CRT TL6-
Verbal Interface (TL7) Just uses verbal commands and spoken responses instead of the keyboard. Think classic Star Trek. I used maritime protocals to prevent mistakes from misinterpreted orders (if it works shouting orders in a gale, it should work for a dumb machine on a quiet bridge.)
For example, "Shut down engines"
"Shut down power plant, aye"
"Belay that! Secure the MANEUVER drive."
"Secure maneuver drive, aye."
pause
"Maneuver drive is secured"
Artificial Personality (TL9) Adds social amenities, but may not always be appropriate (like the ship in Hitch Hikers Guide). Seldom used for crew functions, but often for PDA.
"Good morning, Ms Vanaprul, this is the morning of your seventh day on "The Duchess of Regina", and thank you for choosing Tukhera lines, the safest way to travel in the Spinward Marches. Breakfast is now being served in the lounge, or a continental breakfast can be sent to your room. The Captain asked me to tell you that we did not come out of jump as expected last night, and that may cause some inconvenience. Have a GREAT day."
Artificial Intelligence TL12 The computer is aware of it's environment and can draw conclusions and make appropriate choices, but, like an idiot savant, only in some areas. Like Hal 9000, "We have a problem in engineering. I know we have been using it heavily, but following the guidelines programmed at the last overhaul, I am shutting down the maneuver drive for repairs." With expert systems (and sometimes a manipulator or robot) installed it can act as a crewman in an emergency at a skill level 1/2 the expert program.
Self Aware TL 14 We are talking about a full silicon-germanium NPC here. Its feelings can be hurt (although it also has professionalism) and with social skills even. "When I was fixing the coolant leak after the Pirates chased us, I saw some suspicious tool marks on the fittings. Captain, I know the manager of Smithson's Shiprights is a friend of yours, but the pirates may have bribed one of his techs. I suggest we get our repairs done in a different yard this time." A self aware computer can take full advantage of Expert systems, and may or may not pass port clearance regulations as a crewman.
At TL16 we can have fully automated ships.
You can also buy "expert systems" that will assist a player with specialist knowledge and proceedures.
If the PC has no expertise in that field but a basic understanding of the tools and equipment (i.e. a Engineer trying to Navigate, etc), he can perform as if he had a skill of 1/2 the program level. If the character has at least one level of the appropriate skill he can use his skill or the programs skill, whichever is higher.
TL applies to engineering programs: -1 for ecery 2 TL higher, -1 for every 3 TL lower. I.e., a +2 TL10 program is +1 with a TL12 or TL13 drive, no help with a TL14+. A +2 TL14 pogram is only +1 with an old TL8-11 drive
Price varied. Ship skills were about a 100KCr/level.
I see the bridge computer as an array of processors responsible for maneuver, navigation and security. There is also a "backbone" that links those processors, the sensors, communications, engineering, LSS, and the bridge interfaces.
To ad more "flavor" the bridge interface becomes more sophisticated at higher tech levels. The interface is generally standard on computers at the appropriate TL, no extra cost. They were first introduced on big dedicated machines, +1 TL on ship and office computers, +2 TL on personal computers, +3 TL on handheld computers. (ie, at TL 13 your Ships computer may be an AI, and you're pocket PDA would have an Artificial Personality.
Punchcards & teletype TL5
Keyboard & CRT TL6-
Verbal Interface (TL7) Just uses verbal commands and spoken responses instead of the keyboard. Think classic Star Trek. I used maritime protocals to prevent mistakes from misinterpreted orders (if it works shouting orders in a gale, it should work for a dumb machine on a quiet bridge.)
For example, "Shut down engines"
"Shut down power plant, aye"
"Belay that! Secure the MANEUVER drive."
"Secure maneuver drive, aye."
pause
"Maneuver drive is secured"
Artificial Personality (TL9) Adds social amenities, but may not always be appropriate (like the ship in Hitch Hikers Guide). Seldom used for crew functions, but often for PDA.
"Good morning, Ms Vanaprul, this is the morning of your seventh day on "The Duchess of Regina", and thank you for choosing Tukhera lines, the safest way to travel in the Spinward Marches. Breakfast is now being served in the lounge, or a continental breakfast can be sent to your room. The Captain asked me to tell you that we did not come out of jump as expected last night, and that may cause some inconvenience. Have a GREAT day."
Artificial Intelligence TL12 The computer is aware of it's environment and can draw conclusions and make appropriate choices, but, like an idiot savant, only in some areas. Like Hal 9000, "We have a problem in engineering. I know we have been using it heavily, but following the guidelines programmed at the last overhaul, I am shutting down the maneuver drive for repairs." With expert systems (and sometimes a manipulator or robot) installed it can act as a crewman in an emergency at a skill level 1/2 the expert program.
Self Aware TL 14 We are talking about a full silicon-germanium NPC here. Its feelings can be hurt (although it also has professionalism) and with social skills even. "When I was fixing the coolant leak after the Pirates chased us, I saw some suspicious tool marks on the fittings. Captain, I know the manager of Smithson's Shiprights is a friend of yours, but the pirates may have bribed one of his techs. I suggest we get our repairs done in a different yard this time." A self aware computer can take full advantage of Expert systems, and may or may not pass port clearance regulations as a crewman.
At TL16 we can have fully automated ships.
You can also buy "expert systems" that will assist a player with specialist knowledge and proceedures.
If the PC has no expertise in that field but a basic understanding of the tools and equipment (i.e. a Engineer trying to Navigate, etc), he can perform as if he had a skill of 1/2 the program level. If the character has at least one level of the appropriate skill he can use his skill or the programs skill, whichever is higher.
TL applies to engineering programs: -1 for ecery 2 TL higher, -1 for every 3 TL lower. I.e., a +2 TL10 program is +1 with a TL12 or TL13 drive, no help with a TL14+. A +2 TL14 pogram is only +1 with an old TL8-11 drive
Price varied. Ship skills were about a 100KCr/level.
To ad more "flavor" the bridge interface becomes more sophisticated at higher tech levels. The interface is generally standard on computers at the appropriate TL, no extra cost. They were first introduced on big dedicated machines, +1 TL on ship and office computers, +2 TL on personal computers, +3 TL on handheld computers. (ie, at TL 13 your Ships computer may be an AI, and you're pocket PDA would have an Artificial Personality.
Punchcards & teletype TL5
Keyboard & CRT TL6-
Verbal Interface (TL7) Just uses verbal commands and spoken responses instead of the keyboard. Think classic Star Trek. I used maritime protocals to prevent mistakes from misinterpreted orders (if it works shouting orders in a gale, it should work for a dumb machine on a quiet bridge.)
For example, "Shut down engines"
"Shut down power plant, aye"
"Belay that! Secure the MANEUVER drive."
"Secure maneuver drive, aye."
pause
"Maneuver drive is secured"
Artificial Personality (TL9) Adds social amenities, but may not always be appropriate (like the ship in Hitch Hikers Guide). Seldom used for crew functions, but often for PDA.
"Good morning, Ms Vanaprul, this is the morning of your seventh day on "The Duchess of Regina", and thank you for choosing Tukhera lines, the safest way to travel in the Spinward Marches. Breakfast is now being served in the lounge, or a continental breakfast can be sent to your room. The Captain asked me to tell you that we did not come out of jump as expected last night, and that may cause some inconvenience. Have a GREAT day."
Artificial Intelligence TL12 The computer is aware of it's environment and can draw conclusions and make appropriate choices, but, like an idiot savant, only in some areas. Like Hal 9000, "We have a problem in engineering. I know we have been using it heavily, but following the guidelines programmed at the last overhaul, I am shutting down the maneuver drive for repairs." With expert systems (and sometimes a manipulator or robot) installed it can act as a crewman in an emergency at a skill level 1/2 the expert program.
Self Aware TL 14 We are talking about a full silicon-germanium NPC here. Its feelings can be hurt (although it also has professionalism) and with social skills even. "When I was fixing the coolant leak after the Pirates chased us, I saw some suspicious tool marks on the fittings. Captain, I know the manager of Smithson's Shiprights is a friend of yours, but the pirates may have bribed one of his techs. I suggest we get our repairs done in a different yard this time." A self aware computer can take full advantage of Expert systems, and may or may not pass port clearance regulations as a crewman.
At TL16 we can have fully automated ships.
You can also buy "expert systems" that will assist a player with specialist knowledge and proceedures.
If the PC has no expertise in that field but a basic understanding of the tools and equipment (i.e. a Engineer trying to Navigate, etc), he can perform as if he had a skill of 1/2 the program level. If the character has at least one level of the appropriate skill he can use his skill or the programs skill, whichever is higher.
TL applies to engineering programs: -1 for ecery 2 TL higher, -1 for every 3 TL lower. I.e., a +2 TL10 program is +1 with a TL12 or TL13 drive, no help with a TL14+. A +2 TL14 pogram is only +1 with an old TL8-11 drive
Price varied. Ship skills were about a 100KCr/level.
I'd say that we should use LBB8 as a basis for our computer house rules (CT+). There are several issues that need to be resolved:
1) we should have both a storage size and a processing "size"/complexity (a function of both RAM and CPU power in RL terms, think "System Resources" in Windows terms) for each program rather than a single "size" value to increase realism but not overload the player/referee.
2) We need to determine the LBB8 data for ship programs. Remember that the program given in LBB8 are more complex than most LBB2 ones by several orders of magnitude, as you can write an astrogation program using very early TL7 technology and run it on a weak (only 64Kb RAM) computer and it will take you from Earth to Luna, but a program that allows a robot to independantly navigate over terrain, let alone use a gun effectively, is something far more difficult to write and run.
3) Given the above rationale, the entire contents of a personal computer used by home users would probably fit into a very small number of LBB8 units; I don't know how to formalize it ("basic application pack"?), but a basic TL8+ hand computer would have one Linear CPU Unit (actually representing the CPU, RAM, graphical accelerator and so on) and two Standard Storage Units (total Cr1,000, 1.2 liters and 0.3 Kg for the actual computer) in addition to a user interface and a box (should cost far less than the interfaces listed in LBB8 P.31, so the Hand Computer wouyld be about 2 liters in volume, weight about 1 Kg and cost around Cr1,500, not extremely un-realistic).
4) Low tech should be accounted for as LBB8 "units" start at TL8 and TLs 5-7 should be accounted for.
5) Ship computers are still going to be expensive - especially if they are smart - but are subsumed in the sensor ("computer") tonnage and consume neglegible power.
6) LBB8 peripherals (holo-displays etc) are actually quite fitting for a ship computer, as opposed to more compact home-user computers.
7) Now all computers in traveller will be designed and evaluated on the same grounds, and will not follow the antiquated and outdated conventions of LBB2. Moreover, each referee or TU-designer should build his or her computer models to make subsequent ship design easier; an online library of such "brains" will be useful indeed.
8) Better yet: this approach will fit seamlessly with "slave"-robot controlling "master"-computer ship computers. Sure, Traveller robots are expensive for the avarage citizen, but cheap for the military for certain applications.
1) we should have both a storage size and a processing "size"/complexity (a function of both RAM and CPU power in RL terms, think "System Resources" in Windows terms) for each program rather than a single "size" value to increase realism but not overload the player/referee.
2) We need to determine the LBB8 data for ship programs. Remember that the program given in LBB8 are more complex than most LBB2 ones by several orders of magnitude, as you can write an astrogation program using very early TL7 technology and run it on a weak (only 64Kb RAM) computer and it will take you from Earth to Luna, but a program that allows a robot to independantly navigate over terrain, let alone use a gun effectively, is something far more difficult to write and run.
3) Given the above rationale, the entire contents of a personal computer used by home users would probably fit into a very small number of LBB8 units; I don't know how to formalize it ("basic application pack"?), but a basic TL8+ hand computer would have one Linear CPU Unit (actually representing the CPU, RAM, graphical accelerator and so on) and two Standard Storage Units (total Cr1,000, 1.2 liters and 0.3 Kg for the actual computer) in addition to a user interface and a box (should cost far less than the interfaces listed in LBB8 P.31, so the Hand Computer wouyld be about 2 liters in volume, weight about 1 Kg and cost around Cr1,500, not extremely un-realistic).
4) Low tech should be accounted for as LBB8 "units" start at TL8 and TLs 5-7 should be accounted for.
5) Ship computers are still going to be expensive - especially if they are smart - but are subsumed in the sensor ("computer") tonnage and consume neglegible power.
6) LBB8 peripherals (holo-displays etc) are actually quite fitting for a ship computer, as opposed to more compact home-user computers.
7) Now all computers in traveller will be designed and evaluated on the same grounds, and will not follow the antiquated and outdated conventions of LBB2. Moreover, each referee or TU-designer should build his or her computer models to make subsequent ship design easier; an online library of such "brains" will be useful indeed.
8) Better yet: this approach will fit seamlessly with "slave"-robot controlling "master"-computer ship computers. Sure, Traveller robots are expensive for the avarage citizen, but cheap for the military for certain applications.
ok, several questions about the what "modernized house rules" computer paradigm should be:
1) Should the ship programs be so expensive, especially in comparison to LBB8 programs, which are usually far more complex (personality emolution or infantry tactics vs real-space astrogration or mamnouver drive operation)? Should a ship's library, for example, cost Cr300,000, which is alot unless VERY detailed information is stored within?
2) How should LBB2 computer TLs be translted into LBB8 terms? I thought about making each jump program require progressively advanced CPUs (mechanical, electro-mechanical, early linear, linear, parallel, synaptic) to be processed.
3) Should the new-paradigm computers have more capacity than the LBB2 ones? Would an RL (TL7) high-tech (server or mini-frame) computer have any problems with running the Ship's Library, Navigation, Manouver-Evade, Generate, Target and Jump at the same time?
4) I think of limiting TL7- computers (Mechanical, Electro-Mechanical and Early Linear) to maximum Intelligence 1, no matter how many CPUs are used.
5) How complex would the LBB2 programs be in RL terms? How many of them can be/were written IRL?
6) I think of splitting the "Anti-Hijack" software into ICE (defends against software hacking attempts), Security (runs security sensors, locks and alarms) and various Gunnery or similar programs for slaved SecBots.
1) Should the ship programs be so expensive, especially in comparison to LBB8 programs, which are usually far more complex (personality emolution or infantry tactics vs real-space astrogration or mamnouver drive operation)? Should a ship's library, for example, cost Cr300,000, which is alot unless VERY detailed information is stored within?
2) How should LBB2 computer TLs be translted into LBB8 terms? I thought about making each jump program require progressively advanced CPUs (mechanical, electro-mechanical, early linear, linear, parallel, synaptic) to be processed.
3) Should the new-paradigm computers have more capacity than the LBB2 ones? Would an RL (TL7) high-tech (server or mini-frame) computer have any problems with running the Ship's Library, Navigation, Manouver-Evade, Generate, Target and Jump at the same time?
4) I think of limiting TL7- computers (Mechanical, Electro-Mechanical and Early Linear) to maximum Intelligence 1, no matter how many CPUs are used.
5) How complex would the LBB2 programs be in RL terms? How many of them can be/were written IRL?
6) I think of splitting the "Anti-Hijack" software into ICE (defends against software hacking attempts), Security (runs security sensors, locks and alarms) and various Gunnery or similar programs for slaved SecBots.
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