Corporate war?

[Trent]

I read in some GT products that corporations can essentially declare war, hire mercenaries and even issue letters of marque to privateers.

I was wondering if it was canon to have planetary governments declare war on corporations then in traveller, and if so could a planetary government delcare war on a corporation, and hire mercs to target and eliminate corporate leaders just as if they were heads of a hostile state?

It's just an idea I had, one way to reign in the power of megacorporations. Piss off enough planets and someday they're going to declare war on you and put a price on your CEO's head. Likewise it could be interesting to have a merc or merc team looking to collect on it.

Also, there's the whole "poetic justice" thing here too. It's like the CEO's sit up in their towers and declare wars, send mercs out to kill for their bottom line, etc. Maybe someone brings the whole "corporate war" issue home to them. I could see it as being allowed in the imperium, more or less. As I understand it the imperium more or less leaves planets alone mostly and rules the space between them, so if planet A declares war on corporation B and sends a "mercenary" (Some might call him a hitman, whatever.) to kill the head of corporation B then planet A might regard it as an act of war while corporation B and, perhaps the planet where the killing occured would regard it as "murder for hire", but if the people who did it escape back to planet A they are considered soldiers who've done a legitimate act of war and not criminals.

Then again the whole thing could be more or less a "well, it's OK for the CEO's to send merc armies to kill people to enforce their will, but killing a CEO is murder!" sort of thing.

Is there any canon on how far a corporate/merc war can go, asides from the imperial rules of war, which i know about? Can someone declare a war on a corporation and send mercs to act agaisnt it?

BTW, if someone here wants to use this idea for a scenario, go right ahead and have a great time.

 

[robject]

I read in some GT products that corporations can essentially declare war, hire mercenaries and even issue letters of marque to privateers.

I was wondering if it was canon to have planetary governments declare war on corporations then in traveller, and if so could a planetary government delcare war on a corporation, and hire mercs to target and eliminate corporate leaders just as if they were heads of a hostile state?

I assume you're talking about large, interstellar corporations, such as megacorps. Planetary companies just aren't big enough to resist planetary regimes.

I suspect a world can try. Probably if things have gotten to that point, the current regime has lost already (it's only a matter of time) and is just trying to make its demise as painful to the aggressor as possible.

The problem with attacking a megacorp is that its resources are much more substantial than a single planet's, regardless of how big that planet is. With one exception: Capital, where the Emperor sits, because the royal family owns significant chunks of the megacorps. So to a certain degree, to attack a megacorp could be seen as defiance of the Emperor.

Also, there's the whole "poetic justice" thing here too. It's like the CEO's sit up in their towers and declare wars, send mercs out to kill for their bottom line, etc. Maybe someone brings the whole "corporate war" issue home to them.

To a certain degree, megacorps are too big to govern effectively, too, so it boggles my mind how a company with hundreds of millions of employees manages to function. I mean, companies here with a couple hundred thousand employees can stumble along, but has to rely on the biggest industries, service corporations, the military, and the government to stay alive.

Is there any canon on how far a corporate/merc war can go, asides from the imperial rules of war, which i know about? Can someone declare a war on a corporation and send mercs to act agaisnt it?

It seems to me to be usually economic, political, and maybe physical suicide, but that doesn't mean a truly desperate regime hasn't tried it before.

If you want to indemnify your planetary regime, then set up a rival "corporation" and start a dirty tradewar.

 

[whartung]

But how is this different from, say, the scenario of the book/movie "Dogs of War" where a corporation effectively hires a Mercenary unit to aid in a coup to emplace a friendly leader so they can get the mineral rights.

I don't think I'd consider that "war", but rather "direct action business". Some manner of subterfuge, obviously. But I can easily see that happening on assorted backwaters. And I can see it extend to have two corporations fighting over a resource by proxy -- one funding the sitting regime, while another fights to overthrow it.

But sending hit teams to corporate boardrooms, I think, is right out.

 

[Trent]

But how is this different from, say, the scenario of the book/movie "Dogs of War" where a corporation effectively hires a Mercenary unit to aid in a coup to emplace a friendly leader so they can get the mineral rights.

I don't think I'd consider that "war", but rather "direct action business". Some manner of subterfuge, obviously. But I can easily see that happening on assorted backwaters. And I can see it extend to have two corporations fighting over a resource by proxy -- one funding the sitting regime, while another fights to overthrow it.

But sending hit teams to corporate boardrooms, I think, is right out.

People who've been victimized by corporate wars might see it otherwise.

A new government might rise to power on a pledge to renew the war against the corporate leaders responsible for the devastation of their economy.

 

[G. Kashkanun Anderson]

There is a lot of conflict between world governments and (mega)corporations in the Traveller Universe. A couple of the sample merc tickets in CT Book 4 (Mercenary) involve either interstellar corporations meddling in the affairs of a world via proxy nations, or even reacting to hostile moves by a government agency. The sample ticket for Poroszlo, for instance, has the characters being recruited as part of a larger effort by a consortium of industrial interests who are preparing to overthrow a local government that had recently seized their bauxite assets.

Just like the Imperial Rules of War, there are generally recognized guidelines for corporate behavior during a Tradewar. I couldn't find my hard copy references around here at my place; but I did manage to find a quote taken from the Traveller Adventure, which I don't actually own (but which I'm in turn quoting from another online Traveller message board):

Tradewar: Economic war between business entities, especially megacorporations, that extends beyond the customary peaceful means of competition in the marketplace is termed tradewar. Tradewar is a practice which brings companies directly into physical conflict, involving destructive raids, industrial espionage, and other violent acts...
Violence being generally illegal, tradewar is practical only in situations where its perpetrators can assume there will be no reprisals from the law. Sometimes, a company with great resources can bribe or coerce government into looking the other way. More often, tradewar's violence finds a setting on the frontiers of the Imperium or beyond its borders. Since the Imperial navy and other law enforcement arms cannot be everywhere at once, tradewar cannot be eliminated as an outlet for corporate rivalry.
"Imperial megacorporations and corporations are known to resort to tradewar when it is practical, but always with certain assumed limits in force...

Current Usage: Tradewar is considered an important part of commercial rivalry. Where it is possible for a company to engage in tradewar practices with little possibility of being caught or punished, it remains in the range of options available to the ambitious manager...

Private Enterprise: It is hard to keep secret the fact that a tradewar is brewing. Authorities may not be able to do anything about the situation, but a tradewar cannot be totally concealed. Unconnected elements (jobless mercenary units, Vargr corsairs, local criminal bands, etc.) often take advantage of tradewar situations for their own profit by faking tradewar raids on corporations... By taking care not to injure civilians and observing the general restrictions of tradewar, they can make it appear that they are engaged in a tradewar raid against the company...

False False Colors: Companies involved in tradewar have come to realize that false raids sometimes occur and are careful to analyze raids against them for just this reason. Thus, the strategists have evolved the false false raid; that is, one where the company performs a tradewar action while attempting to give the appearance of a false raid...
Tradewar action generally consists of a series of covert raids against the enemy company. Open assault is virtually never advisable, if only because it provides bad press and it is difficult to conceal the responsibility for the action. Instead, the company is frequently hit at distant, remote locations with a view to crippling their activities by means of raids...

Hope that's helpful.

 

[mike wightman]

Trade wars are not just part of GT, they are enshrined in CT canon too.

The problem most planetary governments would face if they decided to declare open war on a mega-corp is that they wouldn't stand a chance. The mega-corp has resources that stretch across the Imperium and have access to the highest TL equipment.

If a group of planets get together than you have another problem. The mega-corp would petition the Imperium that the planets are in open revolt and call in the IN and IM. The mega-corps and Imperial nobility are too close bedfellows for this not to happen.

 

[mike wightman]

I don't think I'd consider that "war", but rather "direct action business". Some manner of subterfuge, obviously. But I can easily see that happening on assorted backwaters. And I can see it extend to have two corporations fighting over a resource by proxy -- one funding the sitting regime, while another fights to overthrow it.

But sending hit teams to corporate boardrooms, I think, is right out.

Local boardrooms no problem - but you are going to have a hard time getting your hit team into the Imperial palace...

Trade war can involove covert and overt military action, black ops, and outright piracy.

 

[G. Kashkanun Anderson]

People who've been victimized by corporate wars might see it otherwise.

A new government might rise to power on a pledge to renew the war against the corporate leaders responsible for the devastation of their economy.

That's essentially the plot device behind CT's Double Adventure #2: Across the Bright Face. Revolutionaries seize the government of Dinomn, kill the PC's corporate patron, and attempt to hunt them down during a hemisphere-long race to a "safe" location at the starport.

 

[Gadrin]

I was wondering if it was canon to have planetary governments declare war on corporations then in traveller, and if so could a planetary government delcare war on a corporation, and hire mercs to target and eliminate corporate leaders just as if they were heads of a hostile state?

Is there any canon on how far a corporate/merc war can go, asides from the imperial rules of war, which i know about? Can someone declare a war on a corporation and send mercs to act agaisnt it?

I don't recall any specific examples at this very moment, but I do think that fits Traveller (is "game legal" IOW).

Could easily happen if the megacorp is interfering with politics by tipping the scales (engineering coups, extorting the planet, etc). I think essentially every planet is a corporation to some extent, meaning it's a group doing something and that's also what a megacorp is, a group doing something. Traveller is a game of economics, where trade is important to almost everyone. So you can look at it as two groups butting heads, and you get to supply a reason.

As to how far warfare could go, is up to you. It could be anyone driving a car with the Logo of XYZ could be a target, or it could just target specific persons (cut off the head and the body dies).


>

 

[Ran]

I would think, as per the Mongoose printing of Spinward Marches, that a bigger problem might be the separation of military powers of a planet.

Where as a mega corp can fly anywhere, a planet can only use its military arm within a certain radius of its world. Anything farther is Imperial protected space.

The most a planet could do, is embargo goods.

 

[Gadrin]

I would think, as per the Mongoose printing of Spinward Marches, that a bigger problem might be the separation of military powers of a planet.

Where as a mega corp can fly anywhere, a planet can only use its military arm within a certain radius of its world. Anything farther is Imperial protected space.

The most a planet could do, is embargo goods.

Not if they're participating in the interstellar neighborhood. There's nothing preventing the Intelligence Division of Planet X from travelling to Planet Y several parsecs away, and kidnapping megacorp A's key people, who generally have no worries on this "garden spot" of a planet. Or even something more lethal.

That middle passage you just picked up of two private citizens, travelling with normal gear and some assault rifles pretending to be with the subsector's mercenary organization, might be something else entirely.

Anyone can hire mercenaries, as long as you have the Credits. The recent terrorist activities on Planet Y at Megacorp A's HQ, may not be crackpots the news portrays them to be, they could be hires who specialize in this type of thing.



>

 

[Jame]

I would expect a planet to have the authority to pursue someone past 100D if there are no Imperial authorities present.

 

[whartung]

And if a Mega Corp is flying in out system assets, and trying to hide behind some faux veil of jurisdiction, then that's the point when the Imperium should be able to step in on behalf of the local system. Now whether the Imperial authorities are corrupt in this matter is a different problem, but once things start getting ugly between star systems, it become the Imperiums problem.

 

[razzerdk]

Originally Posted by Trent
People who've been victimized by corporate wars might see it otherwise.

A new government might rise to power on a pledge to renew the war against the corporate leaders responsible for the devastation of their economy.

That's essentially the plot device behind CT's Double Adventure #2: Across the Bright Face. Revolutionaries seize the government of Dinomn, kill the PC's corporate patron, and attempt to hunt them down during a hemisphere-long race to a "safe" location at the starport.

And the Imperium didn't take affair. Fifteen years later the revolutionaries are still in control of Dinom. But then, the company wasn't very big, and, although owned by Imperials, probably didn't even have an Imperial charter.


Hans

 

[razzerdk]

I would expect a planet to have the authority to pursue someone past 100D if there are no Imperial authorities present.

Ther's a world mentioned in BtC that is forbidden by Imperial edict from owning warships. This implies that most member worlds are allowed to own them. Also, people serving in a planetary navy can recieve astrogation skill and jump drive engineering. And why would a planetary navy have warships if they could not potentially use them?


Hans


Oh, BTW, I've orgotten my password, so I'm using my nephew's account to read these boards. I've refrained from posting, but today I just forgot. [Hans Rancke-Madsen]

 

[Trent]

Ther's a world mentioned in BtC that is forbidden by Imperial edict from owning warships. This implies that most member worlds are allowed to own them. Also, people serving in a planetary navy can recieve astrogation skill and jump drive engineering. And why would a planetary navy have warships if they could not potentially use them?


Hans


Oh, BTW, I've orgotten my password, so I'm using my nephew's account to read these boards. I've refrained from posting, but today I just forgot. [Hans Rancke-Madsen]

Maybe you should ask for a new password? Even if you changes email from your old one you regged under it might be possible to get the mods to give you a new one.

 

[Trent]

One thing I do not want traveller to be is yet another "Corporation dominated dark future" setting, and I think the idea of a corporate head actually being declared an 'enemy leader" and finding himself targeted by planetary governments as if he was an enemy military leader might help keep them in line.

As to how it could come to be, maybe it was a necessary compromise to the founding of the imperium. I could see some backroom meetings that might have gone like "Look, Cleon, either give us a safety valve to keep the corporations from becoming all powerful or you can take your third imperium and sho-"

"Ok, Ok, how about this? Corporations will in some ways be treated like entities, so if one commits egregious acts your local governments can declare war on it and target it's leaders as legitimate military targets."

"So, if some megacorp tramples us we can declare war on it, and send mercenaries to take out their suits until they quit?"

"Basically, yes."

"Well, at least it gives us some options then."

 

[Spinward Scout]

If you can ever find it, BattleLords of the 23rd Century is an RPG all about Mercs in the future. Breaks all this stuff down pretty good and is humorous about it, too. Other than the dice system, I'd say it could easily be converted to Corporate Wars in Traveller.

 

[razzerdk]

Maybe you should ask for a new password? Even if you changes email from your old one you regged under it might be possible to get the mods to give you a new one.

Oh, I'll get my old one as soon as I can get over to the Intitute and bring it back home. It's just that I only got an internet connection from my home a few days ago and haven't remembered to get the password yet.



Hans

 

[Trent]

If you can ever find it, BattleLords of the 23rd Century is an RPG all about Mercs in the future. Breaks all this stuff down pretty good and is humorous about it, too. Other than the dice system, I'd say it could easily be converted to Corporate Wars in Traveller.

Heh, I've written for BLot23c and am a sorta moderator on the BL forum. I don't take it too seriously as I don't want to develop moditis.

I've edited some stuff for them and done some shorties to.