Imperial Planetologist
SOC-12
That's sig-worthy, that is.
Convert a CT Grognard--I Dare You!
- Thread starter Sifu Blackirish
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Imperial Planetologist
SOC-12
And mine will come from my imagination.
My source will dry up only when I'm dead.
I play CT and see no reason to adopt the latest thing just because it's the latest thing.
(shrug)
I didn't adopt TNE or T4 when they came along. Just sayin'.
For me at least, there's no "just because it's the latest thing." It's because it offers me what I consider to be an interesting and fun take on traveller and addresses a few things about CT that have vexed me.
Poppyseed45
SOC-12
Just to add, I hope others don't think that I'm totally against all past versions of Traveller. As I said, I've played CT quite a bit, and TNE and even T4 *shudder* but MGT really does fix some of the things I didn't like in those versions while hanging on to that "roll it up and keep trucking" feeling I got from CT when I first played it. You remember those games, don't you? The former admiral and his friend the doctor team up with a vargr mercenary and a failed scout to fight crime! (or to cause it, as it were).
Anyway, just wanted to say. MGT really hit all those buttons for me, kept the feel from the original, and pushed things a little more forward. Plus, it's in print and there are new players for it (even here where D+D and WoD tend to dominate).
Of course I will not "give up" Mongoose Traveller, I never "gave up" any of
the previous versions of Traveller.
For example, I am also using the World Tamer's Handbook and Pocket Empi-
res for my setting and campaign, because none of the later versions of Tra-
veller produced material good enough to replace them.
What I will do when T5 comes out is what I did with every new version of
Traveller: I will take a look at it to see whether it contains any parts that
would fit my setting and campaign better than what I am currently using,
and if so, I will integrate them into my game.
Besides, as long as existing material is improved and new material produced
for a version, I would not consider it "petrified". According to Mongoose, Mon-
goose Traveller will most probably be supported for at least ten years, and I
expect T5 to be published before these ten years are over.
Nor do I.
But it would be an equally strange idea to ignore the latest thing just becau-
se it is the latest thing.
One does not have to take a look at the newest tools to determine whether
they would make good additions to one's old toolbox, but I prefer to do it
this way, because I am convinced that my toolbox can still be improved and
expanded.
This is fine, and it doubtless will save you a lot of money.
However, I know that my creativity is limited, and that the players of my
campaign welcome something different now and then.
Therefore I am always looking for interesting and useful new input for my
setting and campaign in order to make it more diverse and rich, and such
input cannot be provided by material published long ago and already used
several times by me.
CosmicGamer
SOC-14 1K
From some comments, it seem that this original post is somehow asking if MGT (as in MGT core rulebook) is worthy of acquiring? I read this as asking if the starship plans are worth acquiring. Several Mongoose mats have starship plans.
I thought the OP just wanted to know if he could easily use deck plans from MGT in CT? Perhaps he would like to know about the ship construction in High Guard?
I could very well be wrong. I don't know for sure what MGT starship volume is. Could someone clarify it for me.
Am I misinterpreting something?
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I am not "knocking" T5..that would be hard to do since I haven't seen it. I realize the preliminary version CD is out but given the length of time that took, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a book to come out. I hope it does, actually; a lot of people have worked hard on it and have been looking forward to it.
As for "history" in "my version"...my version's history does not include taking 10 years to get out what basically amount to playtest manuscripts..ones you have to pay for.
And I will say this again because apparently some people missed it the first time; despite the protestatons of Supplement Four, I am NOT saying people shouldn't "knock" Mongoose Traveller. I just think such "knocking" should occur in appropriate threads and not all over the MGT section on this board. What I object to is the small cadre of people, of which Supplement Four is the major example, who want to slam MGT in EVERY THREAD, even those that are trying to be positive about the game.
I'm sure you'll find a reason to snap at me about this too, but at least I tried to explain it.
Allen
Poppyseed45
SOC-12
I agree wholeheartedly. In fact, it'd be good to make a thread "Why MGT sucks," and that would be fine with me, I think. In fact I'd join in - I've a quibble or two.
So would I.
World building is lightyears behind the "state of the art" (for example GURPS
Space 4e), much of the "high level" technology is less efficient than today's
technology (e.g. computers), and bionics and biotechnology are hardly men-
tioned.
While I understand that much of this was necessary to keep the Third Impe-
rium setting unchanged, I very much hope that the material for the other
settings will improve Traveller on these and some other fields.
Actually, so do I. Not near enough to make me dislike the game but there are a few issues.
Allen
In reference to the MGT game system, Mencelus said,
I think that little revelation right there nicely sums it all up loud and clear.
gamers today are spoiled by the new and slick systems that have all the decisions that a Ref/GM would normally make, all wrapped up into one or two rolls of the dice. The Ref no longer needs to think about what is happening all he has to do is have a dice rolled and maybe consult a chart.
Does it make the game run faster and "smoother"? Sure it does. But it that the point? Heck No. We don't sit down to play to see if we can streamline game time or beat the clock as it were. The problem is that by dumbing down game systems a.k.a. streamlining, you as a Ref when playing by the rules as is, lose all the flavor and many of the unexpected events that come from being able to decide for yourself what kind of check needs to be rolled or if the situation would be better served if role played out. No, now you just are told to roll a couple of dice and move on - all for the sake of expediency and in my opinion, because someone at the game company level thinks you are too stupid to come up with the proper mechanic to resolve the situation.
What is a shame is that so many players and GMs have bought into it and think they can't make a decision during the game, that they have to have a fixed rule otherwise, heaven forbid, the game might move in a direction that wasn't planned or it may take an extra minute or two for a couple extra dice rolls.
Yeah I love Classic Traveller. I finally played a few games of MGT. My recommendation is stick with Classic if you have it, buy the $35 CD if you don't - better than 5 or 10 books at $30 a piece. But if you must play or run MGT then don't get hung up on the rules as written. Feel free to home rule the bejeebers out of it TO SUIT YOU - don't let the game dictate to you - DO THINK, do use your head. Don't take the lazy way out.
Your game and players will be better off for the effort.
Just my $0.02
But what the hell do I know?
Jerry
I think that little revelation right there nicely sums it all up loud and clear.
gamers today are spoiled by the new and slick systems that have all the decisions that a Ref/GM would normally make, all wrapped up into one or two rolls of the dice. The Ref no longer needs to think about what is happening all he has to do is have a dice rolled and maybe consult a chart.
Does it make the game run faster and "smoother"? Sure it does. But it that the point? Heck No. We don't sit down to play to see if we can streamline game time or beat the clock as it were. The problem is that by dumbing down game systems a.k.a. streamlining, you as a Ref when playing by the rules as is, lose all the flavor and many of the unexpected events that come from being able to decide for yourself what kind of check needs to be rolled or if the situation would be better served if role played out. No, now you just are told to roll a couple of dice and move on - all for the sake of expediency and in my opinion, because someone at the game company level thinks you are too stupid to come up with the proper mechanic to resolve the situation.
What is a shame is that so many players and GMs have bought into it and think they can't make a decision during the game, that they have to have a fixed rule otherwise, heaven forbid, the game might move in a direction that wasn't planned or it may take an extra minute or two for a couple extra dice rolls.
Yeah I love Classic Traveller. I finally played a few games of MGT. My recommendation is stick with Classic if you have it, buy the $35 CD if you don't - better than 5 or 10 books at $30 a piece. But if you must play or run MGT then don't get hung up on the rules as written. Feel free to home rule the bejeebers out of it TO SUIT YOU - don't let the game dictate to you - DO THINK, do use your head. Don't take the lazy way out.
Your game and players will be better off for the effort.
Just my $0.02
But what the hell do I know?
Jerry
I have run Mongoose Traveller. While running it, I improvised and did what I always do while running games and we had a good time. A consistent and uniform does make the game easier but it does not dumb it down. It didn't dumb down the James Bond RPG and it doesn't dumb down MGT. Mongoose Traveller has a lot more of the old-school gaming values in it than D&D 4th edition does, quite frankly.
I think your blanket statement about old games vs. new games is one of those generalizations that are riddled with exceptions.
Allen
I think your blanket statement about old games vs. new games is one of those generalizations that are riddled with exceptions.
Allen
In my opinion you are of course right. But it is also nice, especially for the
beginners, to have a default system to fall back on when their imagination
fails to provide an idea.
Poppyseed45
SOC-12
Also, I didn't say that it should SUBSTITUTE imagination - that's silly. Die rolls don't make a story; the players (and here I include the GM) do. As has already been said, I don't see why having a solid system that helps the process of creativity to be a bad thing.
I am a professional writer and editor, as well as a teacher of it in university. One of the first things we teach creative writing students is not how to be "creative;" that will come later. What we generally teach them is structure. It is working WITHIN structure that true creativity comes. It does from my own work. I'll give an example:
In poetry, most actual, real-life poets give themselves "tasks" to complete in their work. One I like to use with my classes is the following: take 4 words, any you like. Now, those are the last words of each line. Write me 16 lines, each with those same last words.
This is, in its way, what any good roleplaying game does. It gives you certain strictures (in genre, rules, reward systems, etc) and says "Now work within these lines and see what you can make." There is a reason we call this "gaming" and not "freeform theater." Poker, backgammon, chess, all of our games work on this principle.
Problem is, one set of strictures does not work for everyone. As an example, MGT has certain presumptions set in itself. Within that framework, I feel my creativity comes out. I have plenty of things to hang my hat on, so to speak, that make sense to me. For you, perhaps, CT does that, and since you are comfortable with that, then you follow it.
To take the idea further, Hemingway usually wrote standing up. Why? Something about this activity made him feel more creative. So, whenever and wherever he wrote, he had to have space for a high table.
Gaming with RPGs is the same. Some sets of things bring out creativity and dampens it in others. Sometimes genre is the issue, sometimes even something like layout of text can be the problem.
So, if MGT works to bring out that creativity, and lets the GM "get on with it," and at the same time helps his or her players do the same, then what's bad about it exactly? Why does it harm you? CT is a great game that does it for you. That's awesome. But it doesn't do it for me, for the reasons I outlined. It once did, but I have changed in the 20 years since I started playing, and it doesn't anymore. MGT though, gives me that feeling I had before, and gives me some new stuff which I dig to run with.
BTW, looks like I'll be running Traveller again next month. To a whole bunch of people who have no idea what it is, except one guy, who said at first, "I tried it once but it sucks that my two characters died during character generation! What a crappy game." I told him that that wasn't totally true and anyway, the version we're going to play only maims you.
I am a professional writer and editor, as well as a teacher of it in university. One of the first things we teach creative writing students is not how to be "creative;" that will come later. What we generally teach them is structure. It is working WITHIN structure that true creativity comes. It does from my own work. I'll give an example:
In poetry, most actual, real-life poets give themselves "tasks" to complete in their work. One I like to use with my classes is the following: take 4 words, any you like. Now, those are the last words of each line. Write me 16 lines, each with those same last words.
This is, in its way, what any good roleplaying game does. It gives you certain strictures (in genre, rules, reward systems, etc) and says "Now work within these lines and see what you can make." There is a reason we call this "gaming" and not "freeform theater." Poker, backgammon, chess, all of our games work on this principle.
Problem is, one set of strictures does not work for everyone. As an example, MGT has certain presumptions set in itself. Within that framework, I feel my creativity comes out. I have plenty of things to hang my hat on, so to speak, that make sense to me. For you, perhaps, CT does that, and since you are comfortable with that, then you follow it.
To take the idea further, Hemingway usually wrote standing up. Why? Something about this activity made him feel more creative. So, whenever and wherever he wrote, he had to have space for a high table.
Gaming with RPGs is the same. Some sets of things bring out creativity and dampens it in others. Sometimes genre is the issue, sometimes even something like layout of text can be the problem.
So, if MGT works to bring out that creativity, and lets the GM "get on with it," and at the same time helps his or her players do the same, then what's bad about it exactly? Why does it harm you? CT is a great game that does it for you. That's awesome. But it doesn't do it for me, for the reasons I outlined. It once did, but I have changed in the 20 years since I started playing, and it doesn't anymore. MGT though, gives me that feeling I had before, and gives me some new stuff which I dig to run with.
BTW, looks like I'll be running Traveller again next month. To a whole bunch of people who have no idea what it is, except one guy, who said at first, "I tried it once but it sucks that my two characters died during character generation! What a crappy game." I told him that that wasn't totally true and anyway, the version we're going to play only maims you.
Thank you for an interesting insight.
It is completely off topic
o), but while reading these sentences I suddenly realized why I have been trying in vain to "get into" the Alternity RPG for
weeks - there is nothing wrong with the game or with me, it is simply that I
cannot stand the layout, and the moment I start reading the text I feel an
urge to put the book down and do something - almost everything - else.
Sounds very damning.
But in truth, nothing substantive is being lost. It's just easier to use, more convenient, more consistent.
I very much disagree. Now that I don't have to waste time on meaningless minutia and behind the scenes probability teatotaling the players will never notice, I have time to give the situation deeper thought beyond the resolution. That to me spells more flavor, not less.
There's some things I don't like about MGT and will be sticking with some earlier version for (what's up with the offworld access column of the law level chart? That would make half of the old CT adventures I ran decidedly different in a not-good way.)
