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Constructing MTU LBB2/5 ship design rules

Lately I've been toying around with a custom ship design ruleset for MTU, mostly to combine what I like in a single place and leave out what I won't use. It's a hybrid of LBB2 and LBB5 -- generally the rules of the latter applied in the spirit of the former -- with no regard paid to other versions of Traveller (which I don't even own). I thought I'd post what I've been thinking about it here to get suggestions.

* Hull Size
I want the rules to work (fairly) seamlessly for making small craft. So hull sizes are 10, 20, 30, ... 100, 200, 300, ... 1000, 2000, 3000, ... I thought of a cute 'size code' for a USP: a 300-dton hull has a size code of 23, meaning "two zeroes with a three at the front", though it's hard to see 28 and think of that as 800-dtons. So perhaps it's too cute and should just be the first number. Small craft are size 1, small ships are size 2, etc. Vehicles are size 0. Hull price is a flat MCr 0.1 per dton, with no engineering/main compartment worries.

* Streamlining/Configuration
No partial streamlining, I think, but I might go back on this. I'm thinking streamlining will cost hull space, about 5% for aerodynamics, avionics, landing gear, fuel scoops, etc.

I'm torn on configuration. I like the simplicity and freedom of just noting streamlined or not, but I love the specificity and color of the HG configurations if not their actual numbers.

So configuration are hull price and volume modifications which may or may not include streamlining. A needle/wedge hull is streamlined for free but loses 10% of hull to wasteage (yes, the ISS is cheap). A saucer/disk is streamlined at the normal 10% / -5%. Cylinders are 20% / 0% (more efficient to streamline in terms of waste space, but more expensive to build). There will be "Other, streamlined" and "Other, unstreamlined" entries to opt out of the system entirely.

* Drives
I like the LBB2 drop-in drive code system, but I'm afraid the tables get too big to scale from 10-90 dtons up to 1000-9000 dtons. So with a bit of reluctance I'm going with the HG system with % of hull required to get a certain rating. I'd like to be convinced otherwise though..

For maneuver drives, I don't like the disconnect where small craft seem to have an enforced TL of 7-9 (minimal gravitics, lots of thrusters/attitude jet action) while ships have pretty extensive gravitics (TL10). I want it to be an exclusively TL thing where you can make a small craft with grav drives or a 1000-dton ship with thrusters and acceleration couches. So probably two sep. tables for M-drives.

I'm going with power plants not needing to match jump drives, and halving the tonnage needed for jump fuel, which frees up a lot of space for higher jump ships (although see the next item).

* Electronics
I'm combining (over-detailed) computers and (barely covered) senors into a general electronics system and rating, which is bought like a HG drive to produce an electronics rating for a ship, a single number from 1-9ish. The ship's E-rating must meet or beat the ships J-rating.

I like this idea, even if it takes away the fun tough choices one had to make with computer size and program loads. I hope that the E-rating can be tied to the combat system in such a way to add back interesting tactical choices there; I plan on ransacking the awesome simple sensor and sensorlope ideas for that


Bridges are about half the size, although I might forgo it entirely in favor of buying 'control seats' for each crew position (2 dtons each).

* Life Support?
Crew/passenger accommodations sort of assume this but I thought it might be interesting to peel it off and make it an explicit system. Like say taking 1 dton and MCr 0.4 for a person-month with some recharge rules, but then allowing to buy cheaper range for smaller ships (person-days) and longer for the big ships. Might make it cheaper and longer-lasting across the board just to lower its profile a little bit.

* Weapons
I haven't decided yet whether ot use HG's energy points. They do add an extra dimension to picking weapons...
 
Originally posted by Genjuro:
Lately I've been toying around with a custom ship design ruleset for MTU, mostly to combine what I like in a single place and leave out what I won't use. It's a hybrid of LBB2 and LBB5 -- generally the rules of the latter applied in the spirit of the former -- with no regard paid to other versions of Traveller (which I don't even own). I thought I'd post what I've been thinking about it here to get suggestions.
Hooray! And here goes...

* Hull Size

I thought of a cute 'size code' for a USP: a 300-dton hull has a size code of 23, meaning "two zeroes with a three at the front", though it's hard to see 28 and think of that as 800-dtons.
This is what Marc originally wanted for his Quick-Ship Profile, but I think he jettisoned it, too, for similar reasons.

His current thoughts are to classify "small starships" with a single character, with 1 = 100 tons, 2 = 200 tons, 3 = 300 tons, and so on. Then A = 1000 tons, B = 1200 tons, C = 1400 tons, etc. That works for ships up to a couple thousand tons.


* Streamlining/Configuration
No partial streamlining, I think, but I might go back on this. I'm thinking streamlining will cost hull space, about 5% for aerodynamics, avionics, landing gear, fuel scoops, etc.
Might I suggest Unstreamlined, Streamlined, and Airframe?

Configuration is nice when you need to figure in the probability of Big Ships to hit each other with Big Weapons, I think.

* Drives
I like the LBB2 drop-in drive code system, but I'm afraid the tables get too big to scale from 10-90 dtons up to 1000-9000 dtons. So with a bit of reluctance I'm going with the HG system with % of hull required to get a certain rating. I'd like to be convinced otherwise though..
No, I think you're right. Although, you could have it both ways: tables for things 1000 tons and under, using a standard formula (or two), and requiring the designer to use the formula directly for larger drives.

For example, right now I'm thinking about it this way: drives A-V are okay as they are. For Jump drives larger than V, figure 20 tons plus (Jump number + 1)% of the hull volume. That's a compromise between Book 2 and High Guard that is nearly seamless, I think. Similarly, then, for the power plants and M-drives.

I'm going with power plants not needing to match jump drives...
Yeah, I like that.

Bridges are about half the size, although I might forgo it entirely in favor of buying 'control seats' for each crew position (2 dtons each).
Marc thinks that "bridge" volume actually includes all control stations scattered around the ship, half of which (or so) is the bridge.

* Weapons
I haven't decided yet whether ot use HG's energy points. They do add an extra dimension to picking weapons...
I think I like them.
 
Originally posted by Genjuro:

For maneuver drives, I don't like the disconnect where small craft seem to have an enforced TL of 7-9 (minimal gravitics, lots of thrusters/attitude jet action) while ships have pretty extensive gravitics (TL10). I want it to be an exclusively TL thing where you can make a small craft with grav drives or a 1000-dton ship with thrusters and acceleration couches. So probably two sep. tables for M-drives.
You know, it seems to me that small craft have powerful M-drives, more like High Guard (version Zero, I suppose) than Book 2. Moreover, the TLs of these craft range from TL9 (lifeboat, shuttle) to TL15 (pinnace, fighter).
 
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />* Streamlining/Configuration
Might I suggest Unstreamlined, Streamlined, and Airframe?</font>[/QUOTE]I was thinking of the degrees of streamlining as Dip vs. Fly. Dip gets you fuel skimming and minimal atmospheric maneuvers (I don't really see how you could have one without the other) while Fly gets you the works. But I didn't want to allow hulls with a choice between the two because that just ruins the fun of the configuration table.

But the cool word 'airframe' never popped into my head. So Airframe can be a special streamlined configuration that has Fly while the rest of the streamlined configurations get Dip.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Bridges are about half the size, although I might forgo it entirely in favor of buying 'control seats' for each crew position (2 dtons each).
Marc thinks that "bridge" volume actually includes all control stations scattered around the ship, half of which (or so) is the bridge.</font>[/QUOTE]You're right: need that stratch tonnage. So I'll keep the 1% of hull, but replace the freakishly big 20 dton minimum with something based on the crew size.
 
Some brain droppings from my own playing around with expanding B2 construction...

-------

Hull Size - So you want small craft construction? I toyed with simply moving the decimal over on the hulls table (read 100tons as 10tons) and labling the drives using small letters. So to build a 6G fighter you use the 100ton hull line as 10tons and drop in a type "C" maneuver drive labled as a type "c" drive. Same decimal move on the drives table, so that type "c" maneuver drive is 0.5tons and MCr1.2 to install.

-------

Streamlining/Configuration - I actually like Unstreamlined - Streamlined - Airframe and a maneuver factor tied to the configuration and atmosphere type:

Unstreamlined can navigate without penalty in vacuum (Atm 0) but suffer -1 to maneuver for each step up in Atm (-1 for Atm 1, -2 for Atm 2-3, ...).

Streamlined can navigate without penalty in very thin atmospheres or less (gas giant skimming and Atm 2-3 or less) but suffer a -1 to maneuver for each step up in Atm (-1 for Atm 4-5, -2 for Atm 6-7, ...).

Airframe can navigate without penalty in standard atmospheres or higher (Atm 6-7 or more) but suffer a -1 to maneuver for each step down in Atm (-1 for Atm 4-5, -2 for Atm 2-3, ...)

These maneuver penalties are against the maneuver drive, so for example to safely navigate to a landing on a world with a standard atmosphere (Atm 6-7) an Airframe ship only needs 1G drives, while a simple Streamlined ship needs 3G drives, and an Unstreamlined ship would need 5G drives. Also note that an Airframe ship landing on a vacuum world (for example) would need 5G drives.

Of course this idea doesn't work too well with the OTU and contra-grav since it presumes a different kind of thruster and landing ideal. And it may be a little more complicated than you want.

-------

Drives/Hull Sizes - Actually 5000tons (displacement) isn't too far off the maximum size for an object to support it's own bulk, barring science fiction materials and such so you really don't need to go higher. I think the limit is somewhere in the 15-20,000tons range iirc. You could just expand the table some, or use stacked hulls and drives (like 2x 5000ton hulls for a 10,000ton ship with 4x W maneuver drives for 4G performance, for example).

One thing for sure though, I'd keep the HG powerplant fuel over the B2 and figure out a EP rating for the powerplant in a HG like manner.

-------

Electronics/Bridge - I have no trouble finding "stuff" to use up the 20tons but can see the minimum is a bit of a stretch for the sub 1kton hulls for some folk. Why not go with a flat 2% of hull with a 2ton minimum? 2tons for a 100ton hull, 4tons for a 200ton hull, and so on. With that 2tons minimum applied to all craft below 100tons. Include 1 workstation per 2tons of "bridge" with the rest being other "stuff" (attitude thrusters, landing gear, and such). So small craft come with 1 seat, and more can be added. A 100ton ship only needs 1 seat but usually adds more, a 200ton ship comes with 2 seats, and so on, up to 1000tons with 10 seats included. Over 1000tons the extra "bridge" tonnage is simply structural.

-------

Life Support - You might take a page from FF&S for this and just base it on the total hull (or at least the total occupied hull, not counting fuel can save some). Just make up some numbers ;) Like 1% of hull tonnage supports 4 weeks of full life support. But keep the costs (perhaps adjusted if you find them too high) for actual passenger and crew feeding as the replenishment costs for life support. So a long range mission ship might devote 5% of it's hull tonnage to life support gear and be good for 5 months between port calls, as long as they packed enough food for everybody
Then you can allow life support replenishment from native stocks on suitable planets (clean atmo and hydro to cycle the LS gear, and fresh food for everybody).

-------

Weapons - I'd suggest using the EP for weapons, screens, and agility. Ignore it for computers and everything else. And yes, I like the old jump drive not tied to the powerplant rule too.

-------

Just some ideas rattling around and not really tried out too much. I seem to recall the small craft idea coming close to the right values for the mid range hulls but not the smaller and larger.
 
Originally posted by far-trader:
Hull Size - So you want small craft construction? I toyed with simply moving the decimal over on the hulls table (read 100tons as 10tons) and labling the drives using small letters. So to build a 6G fighter you use the 100ton hull line as 10tons and drop in a type "C" maneuver drive labled as a type "c" drive. Same decimal move on the drives table, so that type "c" maneuver drive is 0.5tons and MCr1.2 to install.
This is interesting. This makes the little-k drive the same as the A and the little-v drive the same as the B. The 90-dton shuttle, if it wants 3G, would mount a little-p drive ...

But wait, from what you said below maybe drives can be added. A little-p drive is in a sense giving the same thrust (280 dton*G) as a little-k drive plus a little-d drive, which is the same as an A+d... or take 100+100+80 = e+e+d drives. Similarly, maybe a 400 dton ship could pick two A drives for its G1.

Maybe all that's needed are the A-K drives in three different magnitudes, and some rules on adding drives together to make it all a little more quirky than paying straight MCr for G*dtons. Ten rows, maybe 4 columns for each drive... a big table but still doable.

Thanks for comments, more food for thought..
 
Eeek, I can't find it. We should package his rules up and stick them on a website...
 
Those are some pretty spiffy design rules. Very tempting to ditch my plan to unify small craft and ship construction (it might be fun to make a ship design down to the level of freshers and airlocks, but it might get cumbersome).
 
For fun I made up the drive table I mentioned in a previous post. It's a bit amusing:
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">hull drive code
---- -----------------------------------------------------
a b c d e f g h j A B C D E F G H J K L M N P Q R S T
10 2 4 6 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
20 1 2 3 4 5 6 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
30 - 1 2 2 3 4 4 5 6 6 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
40 - 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4 5 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
50 - - 1 1 2 2 2 3 3 4 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
60 - - 1 1 1 2 2 2 3 3 6 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
70 - - - 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 5 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
80 - - - 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 5 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
90 - - - - 1 1 1 1 2 2 4 6 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
100 - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 2 4 6 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
200 - - - - - - - - - 1 2 3 4 5 6 - - - - - - - - - - - -
300 - - - - - - - - - - 1 2 2 3 4 4 5 6 6 - - - - - - - -
400 - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4 5 - - - - - - - -
500 - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 2 2 2 3 3 4 - - - - - - - -
600 - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 2 2 2 3 3 6 - - - - - - -
700 - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 5 - - - - - - -
800 - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 5 - - - - - - -
900 - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 2 2 4 6 - - - - - -
1000 - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 2 4 6 - - - - - -
2000 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 2 3 4 5 6 - - -
3000 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 2 2 3 4 4 5 6
4000 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4
5000 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 2 2 2 3 3
6000 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 2 2 2 3
7000 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 2 2 2
8000 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 2 2
9000 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 2</pre>[/QUOTE]Consider an 800 dton hull wanting M3. There is no drive off the shelf that gives this, so the designer considers the ship as two 400 dton parts and gets each part an F drive for M3. Probably I should make the drives get slowly more efficient as they grow in size.

Kooky? A bit, but I kinda like it.
 
And a stab at a price/"mass" table.
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;"> Maneuver P-Plant Jump
ton MCr ton MCr ton MCr
a 0.5 0.7 0.8 0.6 - -
b 1.0 1.4 1.6 1.0 - -
c 1.4 2.1 2.4 1.4 - -
d 1.8 2.7 3.0 1.8 - -
e 2.2 3.3 3.7 2.2 - -
f 2.5 3.7 4.4 2.6 - -
g 2.8 4.2 5.1 3.0 - -
h 3.2 4.8 5.8 3.4 - -
j 3.6 5.4 6.5 3.8 - -

A 4 6 7 4 10 20
B 7 11 13 7 15 30
C 10 15 19 10 20 40
D 13 19 25 13 25 50
E 16 23 30 15 30 60
F 19 28 35 18 35 70
G 22 32 40 20 40 80
H 25 36 45 23 45 90
J 28 41 50 25 50 100
K 30 45 55 27 55 110

L 60 90 110 54 100 200
M 90 135 160 78 140 280
N 120 180 200 100 180 360
P 130 195 240 120 220 440
Q 155 233 280 140 260 520
R 180 270 320 160 300 600
S 205 308 350 175 340 680
T 230 345 380 190 380 760
U 255 383 400 200 400 800</pre>[/QUOTE]
 
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