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Consolidated To Hit Chart Posted

tbeard1999

SOC-14 1K
My own streamlined version of a consolidated CT to hit chart is posted at http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?p=279453#post279453 . This integrates armor and range modifiers for CT combat. The number indicated is the roll that must be equaled or exceeded on 2D. Add all applicable modifiers *except* range and armor DMs. These are simplified versions of the chart that appears in Snapshot, but all modifiers are drawn directly from LBB1 (2nd Ed).
 
My own streamlined version of a consolidated CT to hit chart is posted at http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?p=279453#post279453 . This integrates armor and range modifiers for CT combat. The number indicated is the roll that must be equaled or exceeded on 2D. Add all applicable modifiers *except* range and armor DMs. These are simplified versions of the chart that appears in Snapshot, but all modifiers are drawn directly from LBB1 (2nd Ed).

Added a ranged weapon chart that is segregated by range, rather than target armor type. This might be easier to use. Or maybe not. The 2nd Edition, which contains the charts in the first edition is at http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?p=279555#post279555
 
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Body Pistol damage is not 3D6. It is 2D6. The 1981 Book One and Traveller Book have typos that are carry-overs from the old 3d6-8 damage in the original.

Citizens of the Imperium and Spinward Marches both correctly show that Body Pistol damage is 2D6.
 
Body Pistol damage is not 3D6. It is 2D6. The 1981 Book One and Traveller Book have typos that are carry-overs from the old 3d6-8 damage in the original.

Citizens of the Imperium and Spinward Marches both correctly show that Body Pistol damage is 2D6.

Seems ambiguous to me. COI was printed in 1979, which predates LBB1.

The Spinward Marches campaign (1985) simply reprints a weapons chart from Starter Traveller (1983). Starter Traveller contains two weapons charts -- the first shows a damage of 3D, the second shows a damage of 2D. It was the latter chart that was reprinted in The Spinward Marches Campaign. I'd also note that LBB1, Starter Traveller and the Traveller Book all contain two charts showing damage. One gives the body pistol 2D, the other gives the Body Pistol 3D.

Unless I find an explicit statement that the 3D damage is incorrect, I'm staying with that. Personally, I think that reducing the Body Pistol to 2D damage makes the weapon pretty much useless.

I should note that my charts correct an apparent typo--LBB1 (2nd) shows the body pistol as being -4 vs reflec. Since every other slug thrower and melee weapon ignores reflec, this seems a simple typo (likely, the typesetter duplicated the -4 vs cloth modifier). A similar fix was applied to the rifle vs reflec.
 
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Following that logic, you should then lower the damage of the Cutlass to 2D6. That is what it states in the weapon matrix you are starting from. That too is a typo carry over from the original 2D6+4.

Along with the written entries in Citizens and Spinward, how would you account for a weapon damage to go from 3D6-8,with a maximum of 10 points of damage to 3D6 with a maximum of 18 points of damage?

Having the Body Pistol grant 2D6 points of damage puts the weapon where it was intended: a last-ditch, hold out weapon that's better then a bare hand.

However, it is your design and your work. It's good of you to offer it up for other people to use.
 
Unless I find an explicit statement that the 3D damage is incorrect, I'm staying with that. Personally, I think that reducing the Body Pistol to 2D damage makes the weapon pretty much useless.

I've always played with the Body Pistol doing 2D damage.

Isn't it like a small .22 anyway?

If so, 2D damage is appropriate.
 
Following that logic, you should then lower the damage of the Cutlass to 2D6. That is what it states in the weapon matrix you are starting from. That too is a typo carry over from the original 2D6+4.

Agreed, that the LBB chart I used have a Cutlass damage of 2D. This was apparently just a typo on my part (that coincidentally duplicated a contradiction in CT...how odd).

I'll correct my charts and repost with a note that damage is inconsistent with Cutlasses (2D or 3D) and Body Pistols (2D or 3d). Any other CT weapons have inconsistent damage ratings?

Having the Body Pistol grant 2D6 points of damage puts the weapon where it was intended: a last-ditch, hold out weapon that's better then a bare hand.

Damage-wise, 2D damage makes it no better than a knife. I like the idea of it being a deadlier weapon than that (though relatively useless at any significant range or against armor). LBB-1 lists the Walther PPK .380 as an "antique equivalent" to the Body Pistol, so it is a bit more powerful than a snub nosed .22.

Raising the damage to 3D won't change the Body Pistol's role as a point-blank weapon. It's still very inaccurate past short range, compared with other pistols. And it's far less effective against armored targets, compared with other pistols.

However, it is your design and your work. It's good of you to offer it up for other people to use.

You're most welcome.
 
I've always played with the Body Pistol doing 2D damage.

Isn't it like a small .22 anyway?

No, it's actually a .380, which is much more powerful than a .22 (though considered a marginal man-stopper). Some representative muzzle energies (in foot-pounds):

.22 Long Rifle -- 97 (140 from rifle)
.32 ACP -- 116
.380 -- 193
.38 Special -- 235
9x19mm -- 326-356
.357 Mag -- 449-574
.45 ACP -- 521-643

Bullet damage is not linear with muzzle energy, but muzzle energy can be useful in comparing different rounds.

If so, 2D damage is appropriate.

This gives an opportunity to easily add a weapon to CT. A 5mm "light body pistol" is even harder to detect than a 7.5mm standard body pistol. But the light body pistol does 2D damage, weighs 150 grams, ammo weights 25 grams, 80mm long, costs cr400. Acts like a Body Pistol, but does 2D damage, while the regular Body Pistol does 3D.
 
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Bullet damage is not linear with muzzle energy, but muzzle energy can be useful in comparing different rounds.

I've read the suggestion that 'damage' would best be measured by Kinetic energy at impact divided by the cross sectional area of the bullet as this is the best 'simple' predictor of cavitation (the size of the hole inside the target). Although an admittedly 'opinion rich' area, I was wondering if you had any thoughts?
 
I've read the suggestion that 'damage' would best be measured by Kinetic energy at impact divided by the cross sectional area of the bullet as this is the best 'simple' predictor of cavitation (the size of the hole inside the target). Although an admittedly 'opinion rich' area, I was wondering if you had any thoughts?

Yeah, lots more heat than light IMHO.

From my limited research, bullet lethality is largely a function of hitting (and reaching) a vulnerable organ. Anecdotally, big bullets like the .45 Auto were developed to knock down targets.

And most vulnerable organs are relatively well-protected by bone, muscle and tissue. Thus, it seems to me that bullets with greater penetration are more likely to reach a vulnerable organ and overall more lethal. I recall reading a very persuasive paper that argued this very point, but I don't have a cite handy.

Your suggested equation seems likely to me to calculate relative penetration. So the approach might well be valid. If I understand your proposal, if KE is constant, a smaller diameter bullet would yield a higher value. Intuitively, a smaller bullet with the same energy should go deeper. That said, raw kinetic energy seems to be a better overall predictor of antitank weapon penetration, which may or may not be applicable to small arms.

In any case, I do not think that calculated "penetration" (or kinetic energy) bears a linear relationship to damage. I.e., I don't think a number twice as high indicates twice the "damage". In fact, for reasons I've stated in other posts(1), I don't think that hit points are actually a very realistic way to model gunshot wounds. Paradoxically, I think that they work quite well in RPGs, though.

Maybe the best use of things like muzzle energy and bullet diameter would be to rank bullets against each other, rather than produce some kind of mathematically precise "damage" rating.

(1) It is interesting, by the way, to consider real world gun combat examples when talking about RPGs. In the famous Gunfight at the OK Corral, 20-30 shots were fired, mostly from pistols at 10 feet or less. There were 9 hits (not including the shotgun blast that hit Tom McClaury), implying an overall hit rate of abour 30-50%. However, the real "to hit" percentage might be lower, as Billy Clanton was hit 5 times in rapid succession (he may not have been dodging effectively after the first hit) and Tom McClaury was shot once while collapsing from the shotgun blast. In CT (and Striker) these men would have hit their target 83% of the time (5+ on 2d), before adding any skill or advantageous DEX modifiers.

Frank Chadwick, in "Lethality in Roleplaying Small Arms Systems", analyzes a number of gun battles between US police and Mexican gangs on the US/Mexico border. They were using revolvers and a few shotguns. Some interesting conclusions:

--US police fired 90 shots and hit with 29.

--a "...total of fifteen officers and suspects were wounded ...and they were hit by a total of 32 bullets. Most of the injured men were struck by a single bullet; four were struck by multiple bullets, and of these one was struck by eight bullets. Of these fifteen casualties, 2 were killed almost instantly while the other thirteen survived and recovered. All of those who suffered multiple gunshot wounds recovered. That is, none of the fatalities were caused by a cumulative build-up of trauma, but rather were due to a single, almost instantly fatal, wound."

--In terms of fatality, only 1 of the 11 chest wounds were fatal (!), the single head wound was fatal, and none of the 4 abdomen wounds were fatal.
 
"That is, none of the fatalities were caused by a cumulative build-up of trauma, but rather were due to a single, almost instantly fatal, wound."

Thanks for the input.
Ironically, this would be very easy to model in CT (although I wonder how much fun it would be to play).

Any single hit which inflicts more damage on the target than his End, results in Death. All other wounds are only minor and reduce the character's effective Str or Dex. When Str and Dex reach zero, the character is incapacitated/unconscious.
 
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I can concur that from work I've been doing for Marc (the Lost Rules), that Cutlass=3D and Body Pistol=2D is official (TTB), and the other (LBB 1981) is considered a typo.

Of course, I think the LBB 1977 damage is much more interesting...
 
I read somewhere (also long gone) that with high speed ammunition to goal is to kill with shock. So a glancing shot hitting no vital areas will still kill.

but that may have been rifles???
 
I read somewhere (also long gone) that with high speed ammunition to goal is to kill with shock. So a glancing shot hitting no vital areas will still kill.

but that may have been rifles???

The term is, I believe, hydrostatic shock. It's been a long time since I looked at it, but I believe that current theories of gunshot wounding reject hydrostatic shock as a major wounding mechanism. As an aside, it's pretty amazing that we're actually pretty ignorant about how bullets inflict damage on people. Of course, we know that they do. We know that certain things (kinetic energy) tend to increase damage as they increase. But it's far from an exact science.
 
Hydrostatic stretch cavity induced trauma...

the most flaky and random effect of bullets. The same type of round, in the same uniform medium, at the same range, can produce a dozen different cavitation patterns. When those rip blood vessels, oy, it matters a lot. But it doesn't always do so...
 
hey tbeard can you post the file as a .rtf I really like it but I want to put in the errata damages and make minor mods for my home campaign. But it looks great awesome job.
 
Hydrostatic Shock. No, despite some recent research into it, it does not happen.

Temporary cavitation on the other hand can produce some really astounding damage, massive bleeds as arteries are ruptured, nerve damage causing temporary and permanent paralysis, cardiac tamponade. Physical reflex to the effect of wounding can also be extreme to the extent of producing remote disability and damage. Proponents make all kind of claims but the research to date just does not prove the theory and the evidence against is more compelling.
 
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hey tbeard can you post the file as a .rtf I really like it but I want to put in the errata damages and make minor mods for my home campaign. But it looks great awesome job.

I tried, but it exceeds COI's maximum file size for word files. COI won't allow you to upload RTF files. PM me your email address (and anyone else who wants it) and I'll email it as a Word 97-2002 format file.
 
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