Combat Engineering

[LordVince]

Maybe this question has been answered before (but I can't find it). Anyway...

In the description for Camouflage, in the Combat Engineering (Int) skill, it says that...

"The base DC to Spot a camouflaged item is 25 + the Combat Engineering skill of the character that set up the camouflage."

My question is two-fold.

Firstly, does this mean I should add ONLY my Total Skill Level (Ranks + Ability Mod + Misc)?
Or should I be only adding my RANKS?
DO I, or DON'T I add a D20 Roll in this calculation?

I'm taking it for granted that a SUCCESSFUL Combat Engineering roll was made to "Camouflage" the item. THEN this "Spot" DC is calculated.

Secondly, no matter HOW you calculate this DC, isn't it coming out a little high? I mean, to see a PERSON hiding in the bushes it's a Contested Spot vs. Hide roll. And maybe a few Conditional Mods on both sides.

But, apparently, to see a CAR hidden in the bushes, it's YOUR Combat Engineering Roll vs. DC 25 + Someone ELSE'S Combat Engineering SKILL. Oh, and maybe a few Conditional Mods, too.

Now, admittedly, the Combat Engineering skill is MOSTLY dealing with hidden/camouflaged CONSTRUCTS -- but they do, specifically mention being ablke to camoflage VEHICLES, too. An ability that overlaps with the Hide Skill, which makes allowances for hiding LARGE objects; like vehicles.

I've got Players pissing & moaning about this, specific, apparent discrepancy. So -- please! -- any input would be helkpful in my deciding what to do, here.

 

[tjoneslo]

The rule is poorly explained. The CE camouflage skill is intended to be used against the T/Sensor skill, with the corresponding super-high sensor bonuses. Also the skill assumes the Engineer will be doing a Take 20 to hide the item in question.

So the total is CE skill level (not rank), plus a Take 20, plus 5 (for equipment). Vs a T/Sensor or Spot roll, with their bonuses for sensors and time.

And yes, the CE skill overlaps with the Hide skill. I'd rule that the CE skill only hide's constructs, but if they want to build a hidden construct to hide people or vehicles, that's allowed as well. But it takes much longer for the CE to hide something than the hide skill.