Ackehece
SOC-13
allows jump 0 at TL13 (jump 0 does exist
)I do admit it is counter intuitive and I actually believe it is an error and needs errata but it does differentiate between the collector and the collector jump drive on that chart...
Collectors may need a nerf
- Thread starter mike wightman
- Start date
allows jump 0 at TL13 (jump 0 does exist
)I do admit it is counter intuitive and I actually believe it is an error and needs errata but it does differentiate between the collector and the collector jump drive on that chart...
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
More likely it is errata - the choice is to change the drive TL entries from 14 to 13 to maintain the table on p351 or the table on 351 needs to be redrafted.
Non-Standard Technology.
While everyone is getting all up in arms about Collectors, let us remember that just because it is on the Technology Charts and such does not mean that the Sophonts of the OTU have invented it yet or even at all.
Recall please the Annic Nova, here we have the first (I believe, but not being Hans I may be wrong) example of Collectors in the OTU and those belong to an alien species that is from outside Charte Space and doesn't show up till around 1105 or so. Not exactly breaking the Canon there, since no one is probably going to spend time reverse engineering them till around probably the 1300-1400s IY they don't become a problem till we already have things like Hop showing up, maybe.
I think they are fine, especially since you can only run the Interstellar Drives on them. You still need a PP and Ops Fuel for all the Collectors you may have. So no I think they are fine as is.
Thus spoke the Naval Architect.
While everyone is getting all up in arms about Collectors, let us remember that just because it is on the Technology Charts and such does not mean that the Sophonts of the OTU have invented it yet or even at all.
Recall please the Annic Nova, here we have the first (I believe, but not being Hans I may be wrong) example of Collectors in the OTU and those belong to an alien species that is from outside Charte Space and doesn't show up till around 1105 or so. Not exactly breaking the Canon there, since no one is probably going to spend time reverse engineering them till around probably the 1300-1400s IY they don't become a problem till we already have things like Hop showing up, maybe.
I think they are fine, especially since you can only run the Interstellar Drives on them. You still need a PP and Ops Fuel for all the Collectors you may have. So no I think they are fine as is.
Thus spoke the Naval Architect.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Generally, you need sanctified ship designs to canonize it's inclusion.
ANNIC NOVA.
So, yes, they are Canon and have deck plans and an Adventure so I would say it counts.
See above.
So, yes, they are Canon and have deck plans and an Adventure so I would say it counts.
Ackehece
SOC-13
this is a T5 gxd era stuff... you don't have to add it to anything before TNE but the annic nova storyline... it is a tech going forward and who actually knows what the borders are like after 800 years and virus running rampant. As has been said... hop is also going to exist at the same time... so slow cheap jump and long distance hop . this allows for tankage for the hop at the same time as having a jump drive.
It is a game changer... but so are all the other technologies and 800 years of time!
adding the chart to errata (and asking marc.... )
You do have a subtle point, there. ANNIC NOVA is fine and good, but yes, there will be a couple of designs with Collectors (check out my draft starships list elsewhere in this forum). Nevertheless, Collectors for Jump-1 just aren't useful enough for trade, most exploration (except for Rift Diving), or most military applications.
Collectors might be more useful for ships with Hop drives, once they start to roll off the assembly line. And yes, Mike, we have to go there, because right after Collectors arguably become more potentially useful (Collector-4 at TL17) is also when Hop shows up. So there is general upheaval in the starship market during the transition period at TL17. Granted, Collector-3 is also potentially useful, and the ANNIC NOVA has Jump-3 and Jump-2, so presumably is a TL16 design (Collector-3 is at TL16).
Anyhow, I know Mike's worried about the Joes sneaking up on Mora, but in reality any fleet that will be out of contact with everyone for half a year is only useful in the strategic long-term.
You'll have to allocate and tie up your fleet resources far in advance just off a predicted target system, freeze everyone in watch, and they lie in wait until a fast courier signals their activation with orders.
Which seems pretty straightforward, but likely is fraught with peril.
The ships I'm considering adding Collectors to are
Thus a Scout can jump four parsecs in two weeks, and the yacht and safari ship three. Every time the ship has a one week layover, it effectively gains a "free" jump. That might be a nice feature for a trader, except that traders still tend to be as low TL as possible for maintenance purposes (I suppose).
The downside here is with this version of Scout, which becomes a TL15 design instead of a TL11 (or TL12) design. That's the design that worries me most.
- a TL15 Scout/Courier (Collector-2 as a secondary power source)
- the TL15 Safari Ship (Collector-1 as a secondary power source)
- the TL16 Lab Ship (Collector-2 as the only power source for Jump).
- the TL15 Yacht (Collector-1 as a secondary power source)
Thus a Scout can jump four parsecs in two weeks, and the yacht and safari ship three. Every time the ship has a one week layover, it effectively gains a "free" jump. That might be a nice feature for a trader, except that traders still tend to be as low TL as possible for maintenance purposes (I suppose).
The downside here is with this version of Scout, which becomes a TL15 design instead of a TL11 (or TL12) design. That's the design that worries me most.
Lycanorukke
SOC-13
Collectors could be used for trade on Jump-1 mains if you used them as Jump ships.
Strip out M drives (which has the benefit of shrinking the power plant as well and freeing up space) and the ship loiters at edge of the 100D main world limit. It charges up over the week and doesn't have to bother with extending/stowing the canopy as it never accelerates.
STL ships or Barge modules arrive and dock with it and pay their 'Jump fee'. When full it jumps to the next system, disembarks the barges and recharges again for the return trip. The benefits are a fairly regular schedule (as opposed to tramps), massive savings in fuel, lots of extra space to move things.
I see them a lot like the old Jump ships in MechWarrior. They even have the giant solar collector trailing behind them.
Strip out M drives (which has the benefit of shrinking the power plant as well and freeing up space) and the ship loiters at edge of the 100D main world limit. It charges up over the week and doesn't have to bother with extending/stowing the canopy as it never accelerates.
STL ships or Barge modules arrive and dock with it and pay their 'Jump fee'. When full it jumps to the next system, disembarks the barges and recharges again for the return trip. The benefits are a fairly regular schedule (as opposed to tramps), massive savings in fuel, lots of extra space to move things.
I see them a lot like the old Jump ships in MechWarrior. They even have the giant solar collector trailing behind them.
Ackehece
SOC-13
aka the Xboat model of cargo carrying but on a much larger scale. actually really quite good for two planets doing trade with each other.
Regularly scheduled passenger service.
I suspect that a small(very small) Mdrive would help. They require yearly maintenance and every six years they have to replace their collectors. Allowing them to move themselves makes it easier for maintenance.
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kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Heh, sounds more like a Guild Heighliner.
Just add drug-fueled Navigators and it's on.
I expect that this sort of setup does indeed exist, especially for corporate freighters running between neighboring worlds, with or without Collectors. Collectors may make it a bit more efficient in the right circumstances.
Would the high TL for a Collector-powered Beowulf be attractive to tramp trader captains, or scare them away?
LOL. If you like - start a new thread and we can brainstorm.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I still do not believe the Annic Nova could be over TL15 - otherwise the Imperium would impound it rather than let a group of players claim salvage rights.
Keeping collector 1-2-3 at TL 13, 14, 15 means that the Annic Nova is a curiosity, not an 'ancient' curio...
Note that the Annic Nova collector has to be used near a star - a prototype perhaps?
I would have had the rate of collector charging depend on distance from a star, empty hex charging would take a lot longer - months instead of weeks.
Keeping collector 1-2-3 at TL 13, 14, 15 means that the Annic Nova is a curiosity, not an 'ancient' curio...
Note that the Annic Nova collector has to be used near a star - a prototype perhaps?
I would have had the rate of collector charging depend on distance from a star, empty hex charging would take a lot longer - months instead of weeks.
My (stated) preference as well. Apparently Marc has his reasons to break from this.
On the other hand, I have no problem with the AN being at an exotic TL. Sure "the Imperium would do X and Y", but this is a gimmick for the players, so obviously the Imperium "wouldn't". HOWEVER, I would make sure the players are looking out for hijackings, piracy, or rival ships with missile launchers...
Perhaps the collector isn't actually collecting anything from the star, but is instead collecting Zero Point Energy.
Ackehece
SOC-13
according to the Rule book... exotic particles...
"A Collector is an array of specialized
materials that slowly absorb
exotic particles and releases them
in a burst of energy which can power
interstellar drives."
pg 347
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