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Clark's 20X1 (culled from The Obvious Place)

W

Whipsnade

SOC-14 5K
Andrew Boulton said:
Of course it's Saturn in the book of 2001...
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Andrew,

Which Clarke himself changed to Jupiter in the 2001 screenplay he co-wrote with Kubrick and then kept as Jupiter in his the post-movie rewrite and re-release of the 2001 book and the various 2001 sequels he either wrote, co-wrote, or edited. ;)


Regards,
Bill
 
Andrew Boulton said:
Nah, I'm pretty sure it's still Saturn in the book...
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Andrew,

It is Saturn in the first book. It's Jupiter in the screenplay which Clarke wrote, the novelization of the screenplay which Clarke wrote, and the various sequels which Clarke either wrote, co-wrote, or edited.

(the sequel books are actually sequels to the film).
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Sequel to the book or film or both, it doesn't matter because Clarke either wrote, co-wrote, or edited them all.

Clarke changed the Monolith's location from Saturn to Jupiter.


Regards,
Bill
 
Whipsnade said:
Clarke changed the Monolith's location from Saturn to Jupiter.

Regards,
Bill
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But was it of his own free will, or was he bribed/coerced? ;)

The obvious place for an operations centre would depend on the purpose of the operation. I can't remember what the monoliths' actual purpose was.
Come to that, I don't think I knew when I walked out of the cinema... :rolleyes:

However, if you're looking for somewhere vaguely survivable, but out of Earthlings' reach, Mars seems the 'obvious place' to me. I'd guess a manned mission to Mars is at least a century beyond the Moon.
 
Saturn doesn't have sufficient mass to maintain fusion. Jupiter might. Ergo, igniting it as a dwarf makes sense with jupiter. In the 1980's, some physicist was on TV talking about it... and mentioned that jupiter was too small to initiate fusion, but might be able to sustain it if it were started deep enough. (in short, saturn woud detonate, jupiter's big enough to remain a burning fireball, but not big enough to become a burning fireball without help.... Anyone for nuking the hell out of Jupiter?)
 
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I dont think Jupiter would do much more than fizzle for a bit - it needs about 50x its mass to become a brown dwarf (deuterium burner), and ~75 to become a star (hydrogen burner). So even if someone cheated and started fusion in the core, the expansion due to thermal energy would cause it to conk out very fast (insufficient density) as the gravity would be insufficient. The shockwave as it collapsed again might cause another brief hiccup, but I doubt it.

So Jupiter would probably 'burp' being a star briefly deep inside, and then become a planet again - albiet even nastier storms than now with all that extra thermal energy.

ON edit: My bad - apparently a 13 Jupiter masses can form a 'very low mass' brown dwarf and burn deuterium.
 
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Andrew Boulton said:
No, Kubrick changed it first, becase the FX for Saturn's rings didn't look right.
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Andrew,

No, Clarke changed it because Clarke wrote the screenplay.

Any change was okay by Clarke and Clarke kept the change throughout all the other post-2001 works. Blaming the change on Kubrick or poor SFX ignores the fact that Clarke was in on the change, wrote the change, and continued using the change.


Regards,
Bill
 
Whipsnade said:
No, Clarke changed it because Clarke wrote the screenplay.

Any change was okay by Clarke and Clarke kept the change throughout all the other post-2001 works. Blaming the change on Kubrick or poor SFX ignores the fact that Clarke was in on the change, wrote the change, and continued using the change.
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IMDB said:
The screenplay was written primarily by Kubrick and the novel primarily by Clarke, each working simultaneously and also providing feedback to the other. As the story went through many revisions, changes in the novel were taken over into the screenplay and vice versa.

...

Originally the Discovery was to have traveled to Saturn, but the special effects crew was unable to make convincing-looking rings around the planet. Effects artist Douglas Trumbull eventually perfected a technique for making the rings after production was completed, and used Saturn's rings to great effect in his directorial debut, Silent Running (1972).
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http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0062622/trivia

We could get out a ouija board and check if you want...
 
Andrew Boulton said:
We could get out a ouija board and check if you want...
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Andrew,

There's no need for the ouija board because IMDB states what I've been writing all along; Clarke changed the location of the Monolith and then maintained that change across all the various sequels.

Why Clarke changed the location is irrelevant to the fact that Clarke made the change.


Regards,
Bill
 
Whipsnade said:
There's no need for the ouija board because IMDB states what I've been writing all along; Clarke changed the location of the Monolith and then maintained that change across all the various sequels.

Why Clarke changed the location is irrelevant to the fact that Clarke made the change.
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Turns out we're both wrong! (But you're wronger :))


One night -- it happened to be the 5th of September -- Kubrick, his wife Christiana, my wife Maruja and I were dining in London at the White Elephant Club (the Kubricks were living temporarily at the nearby Dorchester Hotel). Suddenly, he asked me what my reaction would be if he were to substitute Saturn for Jupiter as the target of the space-ship Discovery expedition. I said something like, "Isn't it a bit late to make such a change?" He persisted, pointing out the beauty of the Saturnian ring system and the spectacular visual effect of the Discovery 's travelling near or even through it. Would I do some investigation and prepare a memo outlining the latest knowledge of Saturn, its rings, and its moons, he asked? And would I focus on anything that seemed out of the ordinary, something intriguing and unexplainable that Arthur Clarke might weave into a revised screenplay?

I prepared the memo, Kubrick was delighted, and Clarke backed the change with great enthusiasm. He brilliantly wrote Jupiter out and Saturn in. Everyone was happy.

Except for Wally Veevers, Doug Trumbull and others in the Special Effects Department. Despite their wizardry, they felt uncomfortable with the thought of having to accommodate the Discovery's moving within the Saturnian ring system. On top of all their problems, they were not in the mood to tackle a new one that might prove intractable. Anyway, they were all under severe time restraints on myriad other parts of the film. Special effects carried the day as far as the motion picture was concerned. But Clarke was so delighted with Saturn that he maintained it as the target planet in the novel version released shortly after 2001 eventually premiered in Apri~ 1968.
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http://www.visual-memory.co.uk/amk/doc/0075.html
 
Andrew,

I'm confused. How the hell is that any different from what I've been writing for the last two days?


Regards,
Bill
 
You said Clarke changed Saturn to Jupiter, and alone (or primarily) wrote the screenplay.

I said Kubrick changed Saturn to Jupiter, and primarily wrote the screenplay.

In fact, Kubrick primarily wrote the screenplay, changed Jupiter to Saturn, and then changed it back to Jupiter again. Clarke primarily wrote the book, liked and kept the change to Saturn, but changed it back to Jupiter for the sequels.
 
Andrew,

Clarke write the story first. It's called The Sentinel and it's well worth finding.

Movies, screenplays, novels, sequels, and the rest along with all the changes came after Clarke wrote the original story.


Regards,
Bill
 
Andrew,

The [original story was changed by Clarke and Clarke maintained those changes throughout all the various sequels.

Who or what sparked those changes is completely irrelevant. All that matters is that Clarke either made them or agreed with them and then kept them for decades after the movie was released.


Regards,
Bill
 
Hate to say your wrong Bill but the novel of 2001 features Saturn and the moon Iapetus (or Japetus in the book). It has always been Saturn. The novel was written in conjunction with the screenplay but changes were made to the screenplay by Kubrick due to SFX problems.

The later books are (as Clarke has said) sequels to the film. They are full of continuity errors and inconsistencies themselves and I tend to treat each as an individual story without reference to the others (for in that lies madness :oo:).
 
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