Cheapest 100 dton freighter possible

[Hal]

Hello Folks,
I thought I'd ask people to submit via ANY game system to date (including T5 for those who can...) 100 dton ships that can carry the most cargo/freight for the cheapest cost.

First Configuration:

Jump 2, Manuever 1

Jump 2, Manuever 2

Jump 1, Manuever 1

Jump 2, Manuever 2

Just wondered whether it was worth it to create these smaller tramp freighters or not. The asumption being, that you only need a crew of two to handle these ships - and passengers are not an option, whether or not such ships make more sense for the role of tramp freighter, or for those who are in the mind towards buying a cheap ship and then engaging in speculative trade. In revisiting some of the Older JTAS articles, I managed to reread the article on HIGH FINANCE and thought "hmmm, now THAT's the way to create a speculative trading company whose first purchase is a 100 dton freighter.

What got me to thinking about this was the fact that while using GURPS TRAVELLER for a one on one campaign, I noted that a Jump 2, Manuever 1 freighter with 1 turret (empty) cost in the ball park of 22 MCr. In conjunction with Speculating without a Starship, I thought "hmmm, this might make for an interesting campaign premise...

The character starts out with little more than his know how and his willingness to pursue speculative cargoes and then paying passage and freight shipping costs (plus warehousing costs if he can't find a starship going his way when he wants to leave).

 

[far-trader]

It could be an interesting exercise, but...

The many different rules sets have such different cost/revenue balances as to make comparisons difficult.

I know I had a 200ton freighter, well, just under actually so it could be solo crewed. Most of the rules will allow a single crew person for sub 200ton ships I think. That was CT B2 and/or HG. And there are a few surplus Scout/Courier's re-purposed as small freighters in a fashion similar to the stripping out to make the Seeker.

I might have a go at a maximized rule bending MgT HG version just out of interest. Does it have to be limited to 100tons? Or can it be any design that is purely cargo and 1 (or 2) crew? Any limit of the TL? Or any other design limitations beyond that and the performance?

 

[Enoki]

I would say a better starter version is one with just maneuver engines that is in a system that has several worlds / satellites in it that are occupied by a fair amount of people. An asteroid belt would be another good thing to have in the system.

Run a delivery service within the system initially. There would be need for "trucking" supplies to the various worlds in system and you could do it cheap. No need to speculate but rather build up a steady clientelle in the system. You deliver food to satellite A and pick up water and raw materials to deliver to satellite B. There you pick up finished goods to deliver to the main world. That sort of thing.

Once you start making some steady cash you expand operations.

 

[far-trader]

I'm kind of missing the old Design Competition threads Do you want to take this that way Hal?

 

[Dragoner]

Done with Andrew's HGS

Ship: Tarragon
Class: Light
Type: Freighter
Architect: R Vurrich
Tech Level: 9

USP
         LA-1611111-000000-00000-0 MCr 31.000 100 Tons
Bat Bear                           Crew: 1
Bat                                TL: 9

Cargo: 57 Fuel: 11 EP: 1 Agility: 1

Architects Fee: MCr 0.310   Cost in Quantity: MCr 24.800


Detailed Description
  (High Guard Design)

HULL
100.000 tons standard, 1,400.000 cubic meters, Flattened Sphere Configuration

CREW
Pilot

ENGINEERING
Jump-1, 1G Manuever, Power plant-1, 1.000 EP, Agility 1

AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/1 Computer

HARDPOINTS
None

ARMAMENT
None

DEFENCES
None

CRAFT
None

FUEL
11 Tons Fuel (1 parsecs jump and 28 days endurance)
No Fuel Scoops, No Fuel Purification Plant

MISCELLANEOUS
1 Stateroom, 57 Tons Cargo

USER DEFINED COMPONENTS
None

COST
MCr 31.310 Singly (incl. Architects fees of MCr 0.310), MCr 24.800 in Quantity

CONSTRUCTION TIME
38 Weeks Singly, 30 Weeks in Quantity

COMMENTS

 

[Hal]

I'm kind of missing the old Design Competition threads Do you want to take this that way Hal?

I would invite people to be as competitive or non-competitive as they desire

The trick here is to see if we can find something that can be found in the used starship sale's lot for various player characters to spot. Conversely, we can perhaps find a way to build these ships that might make for interesting "encounters".

By making it "any design system" - people don't have to feel left out because the design system mentioned wasn't their favorite. In addition? Some people might think "Hey, Hal mentioned no passengers, but would freeze tubes constitute passengers? Or someone else might look at the idea of using Jump 1 drives, but utilize a fuel tankage capable of two jump one's to get to their destination. Some people might think "hey, why not use a dispersed structure and use boats to carry the cargo (LASH style perhaps?) while others might say "Nah, my original idea doesn't stack up too well."

What might be really interesting, is to see how the designs vary across various game systems from CT to MT to T3 to GT to MgT to T10 to T5. All would be attempting to meet the specs just to see what is possible. Then, as people look at the various systems, they can see how in one system, the ship might cost 24 MCr in quantity, while using Book 2, the ship might have a different cost. Someone might even build the ship using HIGH GUARD 1st edition *evil grin* just to throw a curveball out there.

The trick then, is to see how such a ship might or might not be viable. In fact? Here is the flip side of this thread concept (competition if you'd like).

IF the standard starport construction firm demands at least a 20% down payment in order to build such a ship - at what point would the bank say

"Sorry Charlie. We've run the numbers. You need to put a 32% down payment in order to be viable and not face bankruptcy within 3 months. Application for credit denied."

It is the fun stuff like that in which players can perhaps read threads later on in the future and say "hey, we like the Golf class Light Freighter" or the one's in this thread. We have to use it!"

Since it won't be closed to any one design system, this thread should be useful to anyone who cares to read it.

 

[Hal]

Done with Andrew's HGS

Was this done with the older version, or the newer updated version I wonder? I've ot attempted to download it or put it through its paces as yet. Just curious.

 

[far-trader]

One slightly rules bendy munchkin ship coming up :devil:

 

[Ackehece]

CT Bk2 100ton cheapo

Hull 100 Main 85 Engine 15
Time 10
2MCr
Jump Drive A - Jump 2
Mass 10
10MCr
Maneuver Drive A -2g
Mass 1
4MCr
Power plant A
Mass 4
8MCr
Bridge
20 tons
.5Mcr
Computer
1 Bis
Mass 1
5MCr
Stateroom
Mass 4
.5MCr

Fuel:
10Pn = 10x2 = 20 <---- anyone find this stupid as the same plant on a 200 ton would be 1 so the fuel would be 10 tons
.1MJn = .1X100x2 = 20
--
mass 40
---------------------------
15 eng+ 20 bridge+1 comp+4 state+30 fuel
100-80 = 20

20 tons of cargo but jump2 and man 2


---------------------------------------
price =(2+ 10+4+8+.5+5+.5)+1% = 25.25MCr
absolutely bare boned... and price is calculated as a 1 off...
add 1MCr for streamlining (which i would consider necessary as you would need to waste cargo space for a shuttle otherwise or pay at every port) (+1% for design)
26.26Mcr for real world use


more viable would be the 200 ton... has 126 tons of cargo and a price of 38.88MCr.... but jump 1 and man 1 only (streamlined)

 

[Timmy]

My take on a TL9 Slow Barge, produced using AMV's HGS 1.21

Ship: Barge
Class: Slow
Type: Old
Architect: Tim
Tech Level: 9

USP
W-1401111-000000-00000-0 MCr 21.250 100 Tons
Bat Bear Crew: 2
Bat TL: 9

Cargo: 56.500 Crew Sections: 1 of 2 Emergency Low: 1 Fuel: 11 EP: 1 Agility: 1

Architects Fee: MCr 0.213 Cost in Quantity: MCr 17.000

Alternately, a MegaTraveller version produces in Ace and the Dog's Ships III

CRAFT ID: TL: 9
MCr22.289
HULL: 90/225, Displacement=100, Config=4S,
Armour=40D (0), Loaded=725.05, Unloaded=-125.28
POWER: 2/4, Fusion-9=235.2Mw Duration=678hrs/28 days
Extended Endurance=678hrs/28 days
No scoops
No purifiers
No EM Mask
DRIVES: Jump=1 1/3, No avionics
Maneuver=1G 1/3 Agility=0
Speeds:
ATMOSPHERE MAX CRUISE
Vacc: 1,200kph/750mph 900kph/563mph
Standard: 1,000kph/625mph 750kph/469mph
Thin: 1,500kph/938mph 1,125kph/703mph
Dense: 750kph/469mph 563kph/352mph
Very dense 250kph/156mph 188kph/117mph
COMMUNICATIONS: Radio-FarO x 1
Maser-Plnt x 1
SENSORS: A-EMS (VDis) x 1
P-EMS (Cont) x 1
Sensor scans: AOS=D AOP=D POS=F POP=- PES=D PEP=-
WEAPONS: 1 hardpoints; 0 occupied; batteries bearing 100 %
Missile magazine: HE=
Total=0 missiles. 1 b/r=0 missiles
SCREENS: DefDM= 2
CONTROL: Computer=Model 1 x 3, Panels=Computer Linked x 244
Backup computer=Model 1 x 3
HUD x 1
Basic Env(heat/light
Basic LS (air/water)
Ext LS (food/recyc)
Airlock x 1
Grav plates
Inertial Comp
CREW: Crew=0
ACCOMMODATION: Stateroom x 1 Low berths x 3 Emergency low (3) x 1

SUB CRAFT:Closed air/raft x 1 4 tons Crew 1 TL 10
OTHER: Cargo=781Kl/57 tons, EMLevel=Faint
Fuel=214 Kl/15 tons, ObjSize=Average
One jump requires 135KL/10 tons of fuel

 

[far-trader]

NEW AND IMPROVED! NOW LESS EXPENSIVE TO OWN THAN EVER BEFORE! EARN EVEN MORE CREDITS!

Turns out I didn't have to get too rules bendy munchkin after all to achieve profits.

CT Design, mixes High Guard (Hull, Jump Drive, TL15 Powerplant and 20% discount for standard design) and Book 2. Revenue based on flat Cr1,000 per ton and 25 trips per year.

+100tons  Hull - Dispersed            MCr005.000
            Unstreamlined

  -2tons  Jump Drive 1                   008.000
  -1ton   Maneuver A1                    004.000
  -1tons  Powerplant 1                   003.000

 -10tons  Fuel x2P
  -1tons  Fuel x4W

 -20tons  Bridge-Standard                000.500
  -1ton     Computer m/1                 002.000
            Programs 2/4                 000.500

  -4tons  Stateroom x1                   000.500

 -60tons  Cargo

   0tons  Final                       MCr023.500

Cost: MCr18.8 discounted for standard design

Crew: 1 - Pilot

Prog: Manevuer (0.1)
      Generate (0.8)
      Navigate (0.4)
      Jump 1 (0.1)
      Anti-hijack (0.1)


Annual Expenses:

   Mortgage                 Cr940,000
   Fuel (refined)             131,250
   Salary (base)               72,000
   Life Support                50,000
   Maintenance                 23,500
   Misc/Docking                 5,000

                           -1,221,750

Annual Revenue:

   Freight                 +1,500,000

Annual Balance:              +278,250

 

[far-trader]

My take on a TL9 Slow Barge, produced using AMV's HGS 1.21...

Wow! That's cheap! Beats my bargain bucket of bolts

Is HGS 1.21 for T5? Is that where the cost savings are coming from?

 

[Timmy]

High Guard (CT Bk5) design rules, Bk 2 crew rules, can send you the hgs file if you are interested.

 

[far-trader]

High Guard (CT Bk5) design rules, Bk 2 crew rules, can send you the hgs file if you are interested.

Nah, no worry. All I have on the laptop is HGS 1.14 which came out close but more Cr, so maybe that's got some bad prices I hadn't noticed before. I need to throw a copy of the newer HGS on here anyway

 

[Dragoner]

Was this done with the older version, or the newer updated version I wonder? I've ot attempted to download it or put it through its paces as yet. Just curious.

The HGS200_02, though there is a newer version I believe.

 

[BytePro]

Inspired by Far Trader... sans the TL-15 munchkin-isms!*

In the true 'tramp' spirit ... a CT HG smallcraft design of a fuel skimmer, retrofited with J-Drive and fuel purifier!

99 dT  Hull (streamlined)      MCr 7.92
       Flattened sphere w/scoops (-20%)
 1 dT  Model/1 (no bridge)     MCr 2.0
      Maneuver                 MCr 0.1
      Jump-1                   MCr 0.1
      Generate                 MCr 0.8
      Navigation               MCr 0.4
      Auto/Evade               MCr 0.5
      Anti-hijack              MCr 0.1
 1 dT  2 smallcraft couches    MCr 0.025
 2 dT  smallcraft stateroom    MCr 0.1
 2 dT  M-Drive 1               MCr 3.0
 3 dT  PP 1 (TL-12)            MCr 12.0
 1 dT  4 wk PP Fuel
89 dT  Fuel bay*
Cost (90% list):         Cr 24,340,500

Retro-fitted options (*from fuel bay):
 2 dT  J-Drive 1               MCr 8.0
 6 dT  Fuel Purifier (TL-12)   MCr 0.32
10 dT  Jump fuel
71 dT  Cargo bay
      Architect's Fee (retro)  MCr 0.327 

Total Costs:             Cr 32,387,500

Crew: 1 - Pilot (min).  Optional 2 person.

Est. Annual Expenses:
   Mortgage              Cr 1,619,375
   Fuel (refined)                  0
   Life Support                50,000
   Maintenance                 32,387
   Misc/Docking                 5,000
 Total:                       MCr 1.707

Annual Revenue:
   Freight               Cr 1,775,000

Annual Profit:              Cr 68,000

Cramped. Hacked. Low cost operator...

Hehe - note the Falcon-esque flattened sphere design! (Its late for me - hopefully my maths are right...)

*Going with the higher TL PP and FP and 20% class discount would make this pretty profitable - the more conservative approach makes this barely pay a pilot's annual salary assuming no fuel costs or extra expenses!

 

[Whipsnade]

How about Walt Smith's Jump Pod design?

It's a "straight" LBB:2 design, "straight" meaning there's no mixing and matching of various design systems in an attempt to lower the price. Being a LBB:2 design also means it's code A drives are capable of 2 gees and jump2. The ship requires only a pilot, can haul 20dtons of cargo, and costs 26.6 MCr.

 

[Hal]

How about Walt Smith's Jump Pod design?

It's a "straight" LBB:2 design, "straight" meaning there's no mixing and matching of various design systems in an attempt to lower the price. Being a LBB:2 design also means it's code A drives are capable of 2 gees and jump2. The ship requires only a pilot, can haul 20dtons of cargo, and costs 26.6 MCr.

Thank you for the pointer to Walt's website.

Hope you got to enjoy the Millennial Project I left with you to read. Every now and then I still refer back to the second copy I picked up.

 

[bookwyrm67]

T20 cheap cargo hauler

since tech level wasn't specified, i went with TL-13.

usp-7 100t hull
hull +100t -5mcr
bridge -20t -.1mcr
computer -.1t -2mcr
avionics -.4t (.9)
sensors -.3t (.6)
communications -.2t (.5)
jump-1 -2t -8mcr -1pp
j-fuel -10 -0mcr
1-G -2t -3mcr -1pp
TL-13 powerplant -1t -3mcr +1pp
powerplant fuel -1t -0mcr
TL-13 fuel purification plant -5t -.03mcr
hardpoint(1) 0t -.1mcr
small cabin (1) -2t -.25mcr
fresher(1) -.5t -.005mcr
cargo -55.5t 0mcr
total -100t MCr21.485 new
downpayment MCr4.297
monthly payment KCr 89.521
yearly maintenance KCr21.485 (not adjusted by monthly maintenance)
monthly maintenance Cr542
blueprints KCr 214.85
max cargo income MCr 1.375
life support -Cr18,750
7 day orbital berthing -Cr14,980
load/unload cargo handling -Cr72,600
load/unload cargo shuttle -Cr46,200
fuel unrefined/ferried -Cr52,600
passenger shuttle -Cr3,300
total income after expenses for 52 weeks using only bulk cargo +Cr75,987.

for a usp-8 hull (planetoid), everything the same except 20t less space for cargo only 35.5t. MCr16.685 new, with towing -MCr.01 and exavation (20t) -MCr.08
downpayment MCr3.337
monthly payment KCr69.521
yearly maintenance KCr 16.685
monthly maintenance Cr417
blueprints KCr166.85
max cargo income MCr.9
deficit of Cr112,202

i can't garuntee the math, but i did my best. i pretended i did a circular rout starting from a starport A, to C, to B, to C, and end back at the A.
i believe both hulls are unstreamlined, and orbital docking cheaper than docking at any high star port. i doubled the cargo handling as they're loading/unloading the cargo hold. the planetoid cargo hauler might have to start speculative trading earlier than the usp-7 one.
is this cheap enough?

 

[Hal]

since tech level wasn't specified, i went with TL-13.

<Snipped stuff>


i can't garuntee the math, but i did my best. i pretended i did a circular rout starting from a starport A, to C, to B, to C, and end back at the A.
i believe both hulls are unstreamlined, and orbital docking cheaper than docking at any high star port. i doubled the cargo handling as they're loading/unloading the cargo hold. the planetoid cargo hauler might have to start speculative trading earlier than the usp-7 one.
is this cheap enough?

Since I'm not all too familiar with T20, I can't particularly say yea or nay. None the less, by posting it here, people who end up using T20 might see this and say "Yup, just what I need for my campaign."