Character Generation report

[EvilDrGanymede]

Just (sorta) generated my first T20 character... ("sorta" because I've done everything but Prior History, so I've basically got me a 1st level character). I've only generated one d20 character before and that was a while back, so I'm really rusty at doing it - bear this in mind when reading this

.

Initial reactions: Oy. That could have been less painful, but I got through it, I think. I'd imagine that if you're already familiar with d20 then it shouldn't be so bad. My problem probably stems more from a general unfamiliarity with d20 character generation, but I had to spend a good couple of hours trying to figure things out. It's been so long since I've generated a character in an unfamiliar system that I've forgotten if that's about par for the course though

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Several problems/things to comment on sprung out at me during the process, which I'll attempt to summarise here:

- Minor niggle: it would have been nice to have had a table showing the bonuses you get for attributes in the THB. Having to refer to the D&D Player's Handbook was a bit annoying. (That said, I dunno if they're allowed to reproduce that table because of the OGL - I presume it's fair game?).

- Stats: So we have all the d20 stats, plus two more. OK. But what do the d20 stats mean in the context of T20? I would have liked to have seen some explanation of what they meant in Traveller - Wisdom isn't gonna give you more spells, for example. Does it do anything else? I was confused by the relation between Int, Wis, and Edu. Is it that INT is general problem-solving capability, WIS is gut instinct, and EDU is stored knowledge? Some more elaboration on the Stats would have been nice to see.

- Homeworld. There didn't seem to be an option to just create a homeworld from scratch. Admittedly, I can see why generating the important bits (for the character) is more useful than creating the entire UWP at this stage (and also saves on the forward referencing!). My character ended up being from a LoPop TL 8 (Mid-tech) world with a type B starport (sounds a bit of an unlikely combination, but...). On noticing that there were Heavy World and Low Gravity adaptation feats, I wonder why these aren't used in the homeworld generation - if you come from a large world, you have Heavy Gravity adaptation for free, if you come from a small world (or a belt), you have Low Gravity adapation? I suspect I'll be trying to tweak part this myself at some point.

ERRATA? "Non-agricultural" wasn't explained under the trade classifications table on page 31.

Classes: I was very confused by the difference between Core and Service classes. At first I thought you had to start off as a Core Class and then enter the Service Classes somehow, but I soon discovered that was wrong. The only difference I could see what that a character starting off in a Service class has to stay in it for at least the first term. But then doesn't that mean that one could potentially start off as (say) a Belter and then not actually *be* a Belter initially? That seems somewhat counter-intuitive to me. Maybe this will become more clear when I get to the Prior History stage though.

Multiclassing: OK in principle, but I'm somewhat bemused by the examples on page 34. I really can't imagine an Academic being allowed into the armed forces

. Maybe this is a holdover from D20, but I imagine it can't really be *that* easy to hop around from one profession to a completely dissimilar one. But I can ignore that for these purposes

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I wanted to make a Scout character. The lack of Starting Skill points for the Services would have been a problem had I not checked the errata board here, but that's covered now.

The initial requirements confused me a bit -it said "The character must come form [sp!] a world with some form of interstellar or spacefaring capability", and then didn't define what that actually meant in terms of homeworld techlevels. I think my character was eligible with a TL 8 homeworld (just about spacefaring), but without referring to the tech level tables later on in the book this was a bit ambiguously phrased.

Skills/Feats: I generally had trouble trying to keep track of how many feats I could have at this stage - one for this, one for that, bonus for something else... it all got a bit confusing. I ended up with 3 starting feats from the Scouts, one bonus Scout feat, and one free Feat for being human, for a total of five - is that right? Again, this is more of a general problem with the D20 book layouts that I'll have to get used to

.

I'm really confused with the relationship between Skills and Feats here. Why is there a Driving skill *and* a Tracked/Wheeled/Hover Vessels feat? Why have a P/Survey skill and a Geological Survey feat? Can you use one without the other? It seems that the feats require some skills as requisites, but can you use the skills without having the associated feat? Why even *have* these things as feats, when they could work purely as skills? (I do realise this is probably a more general d20 question than a T20 one, but still - I'm confused!)

As for the skills themselves, I noted that the Craft and Entertain Cascades didn't actually give any suggestions for what skills they covered, and a few of the P and T skills weren't explained either. T/Mechanical and T/Electronics weren't explained.

Also, although Technosavvy was explained in the Barbarian Class description it wasn't mentioned in the skills section (but it was listed on the skills list on p 66). Then again things like JOT weren't explained in the skills section either, but that wasn't listed on page 66.

The last thing that bugged me was the placement of the Prior History chapter - *after* the 'Final Details' Chapter. I was left rather confused as to when I'm supposed to be doing the Prior History stuff as a result - I'd have thought it would be more sensible to put the Prior History chapter *before* the Final Details chapter, since the chances are that a lot of people are going to want to use Prior History and not start off with level 1 characters. But maybe that's just me.

I think most of these problems come from my unfamiliarity with d20, but there are a few things within T20 that confused me. Still, it probably makes more sense with practise

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And if anyone can put me straight on a few of the points I raised above I'd appreciate it!!

 

[R_Kane]

* OK, here is my attempt to help on some items *

Originally posted by Evil Dr Ganymede:
- Minor niggle: it would have been nice to have had a table showing the bonuses you get for attributes in the THB. Having to refer to the D&D Player's Handbook was a bit annoying. (That said, I dunno if they're allowed to reproduce that table because of the OGL - I presume it's fair game?).

* I believe what you are looking for is the table on page 20 *

ERRATA? "Non-agricultural" wasn't explained under the trade classifications table on page 31.

* I see Non-agircultural on the TWorld Trade Class. Table on page 31...it is not "bolded", bu tit is below the Low population line *

Skills/Feats: I generally had trouble trying to keep track of how many feats I could have at this stage - one for this, one for that, bonus for something else... it all got a bit confusing. I ended up with 3 starting feats from the Scouts, one bonus Scout feat, and one free Feat for being human, for a total of five - is that right? Again, this is more of a general problem with the D20 book layouts that I'll have to get used to

.

* I think it shoudl be 6...the 5 you mentioned plus one more for being Character Level 1 (not class level), from chart of page 35 *

And if anyone can put me straight on a few of the points I raised above I'd appreciate it!![/QB]

* I hope that clears up some things

of course, anyone else out there, feel free to orrect me if I was wrong about something

-Roger*

 

[EvilDrGanymede]

Originally posted by R_Kane:
[QB]* OK, here is my attempt to help on some items *

Originally posted by Evil Dr Ganymede:
- Minor niggle: it would have been nice to have had a table showing the bonuses you get for attributes in the THB. Having to refer to the D&D Player's Handbook was a bit annoying. (That said, I dunno if they're allowed to reproduce that table because of the OGL - I presume it's fair game?).

* I believe what you are looking for is the table on page 20 *

ERRATA? "Non-agricultural" wasn't explained under the trade classifications table on page 31.

* I see Non-agircultural on the TWorld Trade Class. Table on page 31...it is not "bolded", bu tit is below the Low population line *

D'oh! You're right on those points, I missed those completely! Thanks!

I was obviously scanning the list for a 'bold' Non-Agricultural entry, and made myself completely blind to the non-bolded version

. (I obviously use fairly stringent pattern-recognition systems!!!).

Skills/Feats: I generally had trouble trying to keep track of how many feats I could have at this stage - one for this, one for that, bonus for something else... it all got a bit confusing. I ended up with 3 starting feats from the Scouts, one bonus Scout feat, and one free Feat for being human, for a total of five - is that right? Again, this is more of a general problem with the D20 book layouts that I'll have to get used to

.

* I think it shoudl be 6...the 5 you mentioned plus one more for being Character Level 1 (not class level), from chart of page 35 *

-Roger*

Hmm. Further confusion...! See, the way I figure it, it should be 1 for being human, 3 for being a Scout, +1 for being Level 1 Scout. I think this latter one is the feat from the table on page 35. That said, the tables for the specific classes say that you get a *bonus* feat at level 1. So does this mean I get one more (as I think you're stating), or is it the one that's already mentioned on page 35?

This is what I meant about getting confused as to how many feats the character has. Ideally there ought to be a table somewhere that has it all concisely summarised!

 

[DrSkull]

On the qusetion of Driving vs. Wheeled/Tracked etc

I haven't gotten my book yet, but from what I have from Playtest documents:

Driving Skill is the number you roll when doing any task involving driving any vehicle.

The Vessel Feats (Wheeled, Tracked, Legged) tell you what types of vehicles you are allowed to use your Driving Skill on.

Dude #1) Has Drving Skill +10, and the Vessel/Wheeled feat. He can use his full Driving +10 only on Wheeled Vehicles.

Dude #2) Has Driving Skill +10 and the Vessel/Wheeled and Vessel/Tracked feats: he can use his +10 Driving skill on all Wheeled and Tracked Vehicles.

Dude #3) Has Driving Skill +10, but no Vessel Feats. He cannot use his full Driving Skill on any vehicle at all. (Perhaps he's really good at driving in computer games but hasn't been checked out on any real vehicles).

This means you only really need two skills to run all the vehicles that exist, from motorcycles to Starships: Driving and Pilot. But to apply those skills to the operation of any particular vehcile, you must have the feat for its class (Vessel).

 

[PapaGolfWhiskey]

Thanks Dr. Skull That's the way I read it too. oh... having the feat with a related vehicle allows you -2 and -4 driving rolls on unfamilier vehicles. Thus your dude with drive 10 and Vessel: wheeled. can drive tracked vehicles at a skill of 8 and drive boats at a skill of 6, If I recall correctly.

And I have to disagree with Dr. Evil on the cross class... Many soldiers have gone on to have scholarly careers and while the military needs it's share "Me Like Hockey" grunt fighters, it also actively seeks out professionals and academics.

Also don't forget that Prior history career and Character Class are seperate things even if when they share name. A rogue or an academic or a professional who joined the Marines, could continue to level up in their core class. They might wear a marine uniform but They are still theives or lawyers.

 

[GypsyComet]

Originally posted by Garf:
A rogue or an academic or a professional who joined the Marines, could continue to level up in their core class. They might wear a marine uniform but They are still theives or lawyers.

or Supply Sargeants, Logistics Officers, Intel Analysts, Recruiters, Base Admin, Medicos, etc.

The core classes are all points on a sliding scale from sedentary to action hero. Which you start with (if you do) models the type of childhood the character had, and which others you multi-class into is all dependent on your perception of the character development since his LAST level...

 

[EvilDrGanymede]

Originally posted by GypsyComet:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Garf:
A rogue or an academic or a professional who joined the Marines, could continue to level up in their core class. They might wear a marine uniform but They are still theives or lawyers.

or Supply Sargeants, Logistics Officers, Intel Analysts, Recruiters, Base Admin, Medicos, etc.

The core classes are all points on a sliding scale from sedentary to action hero. Which you start with (if you do) models the type of childhood the character had, and which others you multi-class into is all dependent on your perception of the character development since his LAST level...</font>[/QUOTE]Oh I see now. Phrase it like that, and it suddenly makes more sense

.

 

[R_Kane]

Originally posted by Evil Dr Ganymede:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
Skills/Feats: I generally had trouble trying to keep track of how many feats I could have at this stage - one for this, one for that, bonus for something else... it all got a bit confusing. I ended up with 3 starting feats from the Scouts, one bonus Scout feat, and one free Feat for being human, for a total of five - is that right? Again, this is more of a general problem with the D20 book layouts that I'll have to get used to

.

* I think it shoudl be 6...the 5 you mentioned plus one more for being Character Level 1 (not class level), from chart of page 35 *

-Roger*

Hmm. Further confusion...! See, the way I figure it, it should be 1 for being human, 3 for being a Scout, +1 for being Level 1 Scout. I think this latter one is the feat from the table on page 35. That said, the tables for the specific classes say that you get a *bonus* feat at level 1. So does this mean I get one more (as I think you're stating), or is it the one that's already mentioned on page 35?

This is what I meant about getting confused as to how many feats the character has. Ideally there ought to be a table somewhere that has it all concisely summarised!

[/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]* Each Class gives you Starting Feats and a Bonus Feat to pick from the list of feats in the class description...the Character level 1 Feat has an asterisk(*) which at the bottom states "In addition to and class and racial starting feats".

I've taken this to mean that effectively a 1st level character (1 class level) begins with the starting feats of the class, one bonus feat from the class feat list, and one feat from the overall feat list.

If I've been mistaken, someone who knows the writers' intent, please clear it up for me.

-Roger

 

[xloop]

Question about prior service. If a character goes into college and graduate, what skill points do they receive and what are the "Class skills"? An example might help. If you graduate from college with honors you will have 3500 EP. This makes you 3rd level. But a 3rd level what? To select skills you get how many for first level, how many for second level, and how many for third level?

Any help here?

I also see a lot of issues with the THB that there just isn't enough information given to resolve the questions I am having. Is there any place that deals with these questions?

 

[PapaGolfWhiskey]

A third level Whatever your core class is. you have to pick a starting class.

you can go to university and level up in rogue.

you can have a doctorate in gravitic engineer. and not have a single technical skill

as a ref, practically speaking I'd make a character pick Degree names/choose skills that have -some- connection with each other.

but nothing stops a character with a BA in fine arts from having high levels of say... Carousing.

 

[xloop]

Thanks, but the problem still remains as the service class being chosen isn't the core class that the character will end up in. But if I understand you, the character would go up 3 levels as, say, a Marine, before entering the Marines. Or woukd they use the core class they know they are going to go into and use those skills? Of course that would bypass the service classes altogether.

 

[BrennanHawkwood]

Originally posted by xloop:
Thanks, but the problem still remains as the service class being chosen isn't the core class that the character will end up in. But if I understand you, the character would go up 3 levels as, say, a Marine, before entering the Marines. Or woukd they use the core class they know they are going to go into and use those skills? Of course that would bypass the service classes altogether.

The way I understand it from these boards and T20 Lite is this: If you were sending your character through college, you would pick a core class and build a first level character of that class. (This would not be a service class because you are not serving in the service yet, you are going to college). The experience you earn going through a term of college would then be applied to the character in whatever core classes you felt were appropriate for what the character did in college. The charcter would then start their career as a Marine and the exp earned for their term as a Marine could be used to raise their level in the Marine class (since they are now serving with the marines) or their original core class(es) or anyother core class that they qualify for.

 

[PapaGolfWhiskey]

What the previous poster said. Thanks, that's what I failed to impart but meant to.

With one more thing. This is a personal ruling but is one supported elsewhere on this forum (by no other than one of the T20 author's -- MJD I -think-...)

The 1000 xp for OTC can go to your service class.

 

[Psion]

Originally posted by xloop:
Thanks, but the problem still remains as the service class being chosen isn't the core class that the character will end up in. But if I understand you, the character would go up 3 levels as, say, a Marine, before entering the Marines.

Nope, that example wouldn't work. Except for scout, you cannot gain levels in service classes unless you are in that service in prior history.

Presumably, the character would be third level in a career that does not have this restriction; I would expect academic, mercenary, professional, or traveller would be the most likey for those bound for a service.

Funny thing... naval or military academies aren't defined in T20, but perhaps as a house rule you might merely define those as colleges that CAN grant you levels in service classes.

 

[icote]

Funny thing... naval or military academies aren't defined in T20, but perhaps as a house rule you might merely define those as colleges that CAN grant you levels in service classes.

I think that is a very interesting idea. However, I would most likely modify the difficuly for admission/graduation upward appropriately, but it has great potential.

 

[PapaGolfWhiskey]

Also another thing to note.

It's not where you get the experience but where you level up.

so if you went to college and didn't get quite enough experience to make the next level. you could 'use' that experience in ... WHATEVER... career you did pursue after college.

And you can do college anytime.

 

[xloop]

Well then, now I am confused. What you say contridicts the last posting. The example given in the book is a very poor one. Shame on the writers! So let me see if I understand this now. Say I go into college and graduate. With my EP at 3rd level, I receive skill points and class skills from the core class I intend on going into after college and any service time I might serve. Is this right? If not could someone use an example of a character who goes to school, then a service, then to the core class.

 

[Psion]

Originally posted by xloop:
Say I go into college and graduate. With my EP at 3rd level, I receive skill points and class skills from the core class I intend on going into after college and any service time I might serve.

That you intend on going into? Not exactly, but sort of. You start out with a class at first level, and you gain experience while in college. You can any levels gained from that experience in any classes that you qualify for.

Now here is where you are sort of right. You can only serve in a profession (not service) that you have a level in.

Is this right? If not could someone use an example of a character who goes to school, then a service, then to the core class.[/QB]

Okay, lets take a quick numbers light example.

Starting:
Ian Tiraki is my new character. He is a first level Traveller.

College:
Ian goes to college and passes and succeeds at getting honors and OTC (let's say in the navy).

XP: 3000 + 1000 + 1000 = 5000. This will get the character to third level. Let's say we work towards and engineering degree and take both of the levels as Professional

So we have a Traveller 1 / Professional 2

Service:

Having succeeded at OTC, we must enter the navy for one term. Let's say Ian is promoted and gets 2000 bonus XP. He gets 4000+1000+2000=7000 XP this term, for a total of 12000.

This will put the character at 5th level. I want the character to mostly be the traveller, but navy will give the character access to a feat I may want, so we take a level in each. So Ian is a Traveller 2 / Professional 2 / Navy 1

Profession.

Now assuming we move on from the navy (and don't roll a 20 on reenlistment) we can try something else. We can choose a service class (since they don't require anything) or a traveller or professional (since I have a level in each of those classes). I'll choose traveller and see the universe.

So, say in traveller I spend a term, survive, and get 3000 bonus XP for 7000, for a total of 19000. That will get us to 6th level. Now not, nothing says I have to take this level in traveller. We can take a level in any class we meet the requirements for. I haven't been defining feats, but for the sake of argument, let's assume Ian took connections/underworld. We would then qualify for rogue. Say we spent part of the term as traveller on the seedier side of the law.

So, we end this term with Ian as a:
Traveller 2 / Professional 2 / Navy 1 / Rogue 1

The thing I tried to demonstrate here is that career doesn't determine class so much as class determines career.

 

[GypsyComet]

Now assuming we move on from the navy (and don't roll a 20 on reenlistment) we can try something else. We can choose a service class (since they don't require anything)

This is the only soft spot in the above wonderful example. The service classes generally require that you be in that service, while entering the services requires that you qualify for the connected classes (p.124, first column, second para from the bottom).

Otherwise right on the money.

 

[Psion]

Originally posted by GypsyComet:
This is the only soft spot in the above wonderful example. The service classes generally require that you be in that service, while entering the services requires that you qualify for the connected classes (p.124, first column, second para from the bottom).

Good catch, I didn't notice that. However, the assumption I was proceeding from -- that you do not have to have a level in the service class to serve in the associated service career -- is still valid.