Changing MegaTraveller beyond errata

[Timerover51]

Personally, I love the Striker, MegaTraveller and FF&S design systems for their crunchyness and real-world units, but I recognize that I am in the "gearhead" minority.

So what about adopting the trend of the MongooseTraveller Vehicles book and T5 Makers in restructuring it more towards a result-oriented system than an assemble the components system?

It would be nice to see a 'maker' that uses real world units (kilograms, kiloliters, kilojoules).

If you like and want to use design sequences, at least make sure you do some fairly good research first, and derive the sequence from some actual equipment. Going back to the Wet Navy Article series in Challenge Magazine, which uses the MegaTraveller vehicle design sequence as a base, the following is stated. The material is copied from the Challenge #53 that I purchased and downloaded from DriveThru.

Pumps are rated by the number of kiloliters they can pump per hour. Pumps take up hull volume at 10% of their rated pumping capacity in liters. They weigh 10% of their rated capacity in kilograms.

As an example, a pump with a capacity of one kiloliter per hour has a volume of 100 liters and weighs 100 kilograms.

One kiloliter per hour of water is equal to 1000 kilograms of water, or for my ancient English units mind, 264 gallons per hour, with a volume of 100 liters being equal to 26.4 gallons or about one-half of a 55-gallon drum. The weight should be 100 kilograms, or 220.5 pounds.

Now, in my basement, I have a submersible back-up pump for my sump pump, purchased at Ace Hardware. Its rated capacity per hour, with a 15 foot head, is 660 gallons, or just about 2500 liters. According to the design sequence given, the pump should occupy a volume of 250 liters (66 gallons or considerably larger than a 55-gallon drum), and weigh 250 kilograms or about 550 pounds. The pump that I have is rated at 1/6 horsepower, weighs about 7 pounds, and could fit inside of a One gallon milk container. It is powered by electricity, but then the article allows for that.

So, again, if you want to have detailed design sequences, do some research first, in the Real World, if possible.

 

[savage]

There is so much overlap and yet a bit of variations between rule sets. We need a comparison chart to keep it straight.

 

[Hyphen]

T4's core psionics are, IMO, simply THE best psionics rules in any edition.

How do you Send Thoughts to someone on the other side of the planet? Or even in orbit?

(Ah, who am I kidding. I never been happy with psionics in any edition. TNE comes closest. But they're always knobbled by the use of the combat range bands. How the Zho's ever teleported themselves into low orbit is beyond me.)

 

[aramis]

How do you Send Thoughts to someone on the other side of the planet? Or even in orbit?

you pay the 8 points or so.

 

[Vladika]

< Three monkeys, neither blind, deaf nor dumb.

:CoW::CoW::CoW:

...Reduce the significance of the ship's computer in combat (!).

:CoW::CoW::CoW:

So now the lowly fighter is king again?:devil:

Rob, you must be a bird to keep opening all those cans of worms.

I am sore tempted to add even MORE emoticons to this one. If you see this post edited you'll know why.

But then it seems I can't (You have included 11 images in your message. You are limited to using 10 images so please go back and correct the problem and then continue again.

Images include use of smilies, the BB code

 

[McPerth]

So now the lowly fighter is king again?:devil:

In MT is quite easy (while expensive) to have a fighter with the same computer tan a battleship, so I don't see how this would make the fighter more powerful.

Its main effect would be to reduce the TL advantage, as usually (unless this same TL advantage allows you better weapons/defenses) the computer TL is the main advantage you have by rising the TL (this +/- 1 reflective modifier may be quite decisive...).

 

[Vladika]

In MT is quite easy (while expensive) to have a fighter with the same computer tan a battleship, so I don't see how this would make the fighter more powerful.

Its main effect would be to reduce the TL advantage, as usually (unless this same TL advantage allows you better weapons/defenses) the computer TL is the main advantage you have by rising the TL (this +/- 1 reflective modifier may be quite decisive...).

If Rob reduces the significance of the computer you wouldn't need to necessarily have the best and therefore the most expensive.

The computer has always been one of the biggest stumbling blocks in higher tech "Fighter vs anything". Reduce the cost and at the same time increase the (relative) Fighter capabilities?

Not really more powerful, perhaps, but a lot more of them for the same cost.

 

[McPerth]

If Rob reduces the significance of the computer you wouldn't need to necessarily have the best and therefore the most expensive.

The computer has always been one of the biggest stumbling blocks in higher tech "Fighter vs anything". Reduce the cost and at the same time increase the (relative) Fighter capabilities?

Not really more powerful, perhaps, but a lot more of them for the same cost.

But, unless you're at a defensive stance, you still must carry them to the battle, and so, the more fighters you have, the more carriers you need, sonewhat offstetting the fighters cheapness...

 

[Vladika]

But, unless you're at a defensive stance, you still must carry them to the battle, and so, the more fighters you have, the more carriers you need, sonewhat offstetting the fighters cheapness...

But that has always been true, this just makes what you always had to do better for Fighters. So, no net change in transport overhead.

By the same logic you need fewer Fighters to do the same job, and do it better. Therefore fewer transports are needed.

I LIKE Fighters and am one of the few on this board who advocates their usefulness at higher TLs. Still, I don't think they need to dominate a battle.

What it boils down to in the end is bringing the MOST Powerful, Sustainable, Survivable Force to bear no matter what that force composition is, or how it gets there.

 

[McPerth]

By the same logic you need fewer Fighters to do the same job, and do it better. Therefore fewer transports are needed.

I understood you said the main advantage of it would be to make them chaper and so, having more of them. I keep saying I don't see why do you need lesss of them (or what, numbers aside, makes them more powerful because of that).

 

[Vladika]

I understood you said the main advantage of it would be to make them chaper and so, having more of them. I keep saying I don't see why do you need lesss of them (or what, numbers aside, makes them more powerful because of that).

Ether way. Cheaper for the same number. vs More for the same price. Just a matter of how your Fleet chooses, or not, to buy, build, deploy Fighters.

My real point is that if computers aren't as necessary, Fighters become, cheaper or more abundant or relatively, more powerful.

Any way you look at that, Fighters gain.

 

[Timerover51]

There is so much overlap and yet a bit of variations between rule sets. We need a comparison chart to keep it straight.

So, what are you waiting for?

 

[savage]

So, what are you waiting for?

It's an attractive thought.
Humbly some people on this site have a far wider view of game mechanics initiated across many systems than I. I have not even finished reading T5 (waiting the updated errata which I don't see on the FFE website). However, it might really need a board wide focus.

Most of us select a version and stick with it or on one - two systems and leave it at that. It's worth discussing.

 

[Hyphen]

you pay the 8 points or so.

OK, dude, I'll need a little more.

Send Thoughts

Range: Contact, + 1 range per 1 pt.

Duration: 1 min., x 10 per pt.

T4 range bands:
0 Contact 0-3m
1 V. Short 4-1 5m
2 Short 16-45m
3 Medium 46-1 50m
4 Long 151 -450m
5 V. .Long 451-1500m
? Distant?
? Regional (mentioned in vac suit radios, p69, and Mylin Ranger Grav Car, p84), no distance given.
? Continental (mentioned under Rolen Politesse Grav Car, p 84), no distance given.
Medium orbital (same source), no distance given.

OK, so maybe close orbit is Regional (+7); Continental at a pinch..

But Psi Skill is only rated from 0 to 6, unless you push it (risky).

Hmm.

 

[aramis]

O
But Psi Skill is only rated from 0 to 6, unless you push it (risky).

Hmm.

The true limit is your PSR. The skill 6 cap is something I'd forgotten; still, with a cap at 6, going past that, the progression is +2 bands = x10 range.
7 should thus be 4.5 km, 8 is 15km, 9 is 45km. and the peak of 9 (since you're only allowed to push by 3).

It isn't a good idea to push for that kind of range, but you spends your points, you makes the call. To get the CT/MT-level ranges, just change telepathy (send/rec) to 2 range bands per point of psi, and life sense to 3 bands. That gives you the CT/MT range levels.

It happens to be T4 is the best mode of rules for psi. The ranges are kept relatively low. If you have the points, you pull it off. There may be consequences (loss of PSR) following, but it's quick to administer, easy to play, and allows ZTMs to get aboard, skip a door, and get out (Remembering they're going to be skill 4+ and PSR 9.

To expand on the Zho Teleport Marines:
In CT: they get over as a group. Might bypass one door. They get back as a group.
In MT: Most get over. They might be able to bypass a door. They mostly get back.
In TNE: They spread out over a line between ships; eventually, all will make it. They can bypass doors at will. They all eventually escape back.
In T4: they get over as a group. They can bypass a door or two. They get back as a group.
In MGT: same as MT
T5: Haven't read the psi rules since early drafts.

 

[Hyphen]

Thanks Wil.

[Full disclosure] I've had to deal with the fun effects of having not one, but TWO Droyne in my gaming group at one time. They would pop in, slap a "present" on a wall, and pop out leaving the "present" to detonate... (Often TDX - the knee-capping routine - Droyne are short, after all)... and then they acquired a couple of Adventure 3's stepping disks. Having a teleporting Droyne pop in with a disk, thus allowing the rest of the PCs to pop in as well, is the nearest thing to a ST-like transporter you are ever likely to see in Traveller.

Admittedly this is not something you'll see every day. (Actually, being Droyne, not something you'll ever see without a psi-shield...)

I'll admit to rather liking the TNE rules and game effects over the others. The mini-game with stages of psionic success, the varying base difficulty levels, the "alienness" problem with telepathy, and the descriptive effect and efficacy of each skill - all these seemed to give the topic much more depth than it had in other rulesets. In Classic Traveller in particular (& therefore MT, which is really just CT-on-Striker-steroids), it feels tacked-on. Almost an after-thought.

My main problem has been in trying to work out how to adapt the TNE rules to MT (my favourite ruleset - as you know) so that the same flavour comes across.

 

[aramis]

Thanks Wil.

[Full disclosure] I've had to deal with the fun effects of having not one, but TWO Droyne in my gaming group at one time. They would pop in, slap a "present" on a wall, and pop out leaving the "present" to detonate... (Often TDX - the knee-capping routine - Droyne are short, after all)... and then they acquired a couple of Adventure 3's stepping disks. Having a teleporting Droyne pop in with a disk, thus allowing the rest of the PCs to pop in as well, is the nearest thing to a ST-like transporter you are ever likely to see in Traveller.

Admittedly this is not something you'll see every day. (Actually, being Droyne, not something you'll ever see without a psi-shield...)

I'll admit to rather liking the TNE rules and game effects over the others. The mini-game with stages of psionic success, the varying base difficulty levels, the "alienness" problem with telepathy, and the descriptive effect and efficacy of each skill - all these seemed to give the topic much more depth than it had in other rulesets. In Classic Traveller in particular (& therefore MT, which is really just CT-on-Striker-steroids), it feels tacked-on. Almost an after-thought.

My main problem has been in trying to work out how to adapt the TNE rules to MT (my favourite ruleset - as you know) so that the same flavour comes across.

Actually, Trek like transporters are in MGT Psion.

Part of your droyne problem sounds like use of TNE... because under CT/MT, they run out of points on the second pop.

As for the TNE issue... converting it, double the distance per point, and just use the MT task system as normal, keeping in mind that a made by 0 should be treated as in personal combat - half a point of effect.

MT combat damages can be made much more smooth by simply using the margin directly as a damage multiplier as well, rather than the quantized steps in the standard.

 

[savage]

I'd like the T5 character design except for the awkward knowledge / Skills relationship. Developing a senior character should not take an afternoon.

Whatever changes occurred FF&S needs to be in the mix.