Cascade Skill issues

[Kilgs]

I keep bumping my head against an issue in Cascade Skills.

Do you add ranks to the different cascades before/during/after character generation?

Example:
Bob goes into law enforcement in first term. He receives
-Small Arms (Pistol)/2
Now, this should also give him Small Arms (Rifle)/1 according to the rules.

Second Term, Bob then enters the Army and receives
-Small Arms (Rifle)/2

If we add the Cascade level at each stage, Bob would have…
-Small Arms (Pistol)/2
-Small Arms (Rifle)/3 (1+2)

I assume since Pistol is higher than Rifle at the time of adjustment, we don’t add a +1 to Pistol also.

Third Term, Bob decides to increase Small Arms (Rifle) to /5
-Small Arms (Rifle)/5
-Small Arms (Pistol)/3 (2+1)

That gets really confusing. So how do people do this…?

 

[HG_B]

That gets really confusing. So how do people do this…?

I don't add them.

 

[aramis]

They don't add, by my understanding. Use the higher of 1/2 the highest or the level spent for.

For example, Rocco has several terms in the Police, and has Pistol 6. Then he joins the army, and gets Rifle 2. He uses his skill as Pistol 6, (everything else) at 3.

If he then raises rifle to 4, he now uses Pistol 6, Rifle 4, everything else 3.

That whole handling of cascades is one of those reality rules that really just makes the game too hard to run if you think it through too much.

 

[E.D.Quibell]

I use the equivalence skill as the starting point.

i.e. if someone in the Navy has Pilot-4, they have an equiverlent of Ships Boat at skill 3.

Now if they recieve Ships Boat in character generation giving them Ships Boat-1 doesn't make any sence because they have it at level 3 as an equiverlent.

So I add the skill to the equiverlent i.e. the Character who had Pilot-4 and rolled a skill in Ships Boat, I would give Pilot-4 and Ships Boat-4.

Best regards,

Ewan

 

[McPerth]

I use the equivalence skill as the starting point.

i.e. if someone in the Navy has Pilot-4, they have an equiverlent of Ships Boat at skill 3.

Now if they recieve Ships Boat in character generation giving them Ships Boat-1 doesn't make any sence because they have it at level 3 as an equiverlent.

So I add the skill to the equiverlent i.e. the Character who had Pilot-4 and rolled a skill in Ships Boat, I would give Pilot-4 and Ships Boat-4.

Best regards,

Ewan

And what happens if this Pilot skill rises to 5? The ship's boat skill he had is nullified again...

I've nenver played TNE, being mostly MT player, but in the case of 'included' skills or 'serves as...' skills (the closest equivalent to the cascades in TNE, IIRC), I use the same system Aramis tells. If you are Pilot 4 and Ship's boat 2, your ship's boat skill is actually useless, but by using Pilot equivalent, you can still raise your ship'd boat, so, perhaps one day it wil lraise ovr Pilot and be useful...

 

[HG_B]

I use the equivalence skill as the starting point.

i.e. if someone in the Navy has Pilot-4, they have an equiverlent of Ships Boat at skill 3.

Now if they recieve Ships Boat in character generation giving them Ships Boat-1

It is in effect, a wasted skill roll. As he wouldn't be trained in something at a lower level that he had (fighter pilots don't get sent back to 1st year ground school) have the player re-roll.

 

[aramis]

It is in effect, a wasted skill roll. As he wouldn't be trained in something at a lower level that he had (fighter pilots don't get sent back to 1st year ground school) have the player re-roll.

TNE does not use rolls to acquire skills. The various careers do have initial term skill lists. And they are not "purchase these" but are "You are trained in these."

And while your example "sounds right," it isn't. A fighter pilot goes back to basic flight training when he wants to convert to an ATP rating.

A soldier who becomes a police officer goes through the academy just like all the others, including the firearms classes. And if he's smart, pays attention, and shoots even better. Something which is not modeled with the RAW...

If one wants to make additional levels in subskills work more realistically, the following huse rule is almost as simple:

Roll against the lower of:
Subskill in use + half of best subskill OR best subskill.

Which would make out sniper cum cop ( SA-Rifle 4 SA-Pistol 2) fire at 4 for pistol and rifle, but SMG would still be 2, and he won't get better at pistol until he hits pistol 4.

 

[HG_B]

T A fighter pilot goes back to basic flight training when he wants to convert to an ATP rating.

Umm, no he doesn't. I know two and neither went through basic ground school again.

 

[aramis]

Umm, no he doesn't. I know two and neither went through basic ground school again.

Yes, but he or she does redo flight training. I've known a dozen fighter jocks who had to spend thousands of $$$ to convert over from SEJ/MEJ to ATP.

Ground school is NOT level 1. Flight training is. I've taken ground school. Passed the FAA written. What it taught me about controlling an aircraft? Nil. Nada. ZILCH. It did teach me a lot about where I could and could not fly, and what I was and was not allowed to fly.

It might be good enough for Air-Law 1... but it's not Pilot 1 or more.

 

[HG_B]

Yes, but he or she does redo flight training. I've known a dozen fighter jocks who had to spend thousands of $$$ to convert over from SEJ/MEJ to ATP.

Ground school is NOT level 1. Flight training is. I've taken ground school. Passed the FAA written. What it taught me about controlling an aircraft? Nil. Nada. ZILCH. It did teach me a lot about where I could and could not fly, and what I was and was not allowed to fly.

It might be good enough for Air-Law 1... but it's not Pilot 1 or more.

Umm, you are talking about CIVILIAN licensing requirements. WE are talking about training while STILL in the service. So, your point is moot.

 

[aramis]

Umm, you are talking about CIVILIAN licensing requirements. WE are talking about training while STILL in the service. So, your point is moot.

No, we're talking about changing from one career track to another. The example in question was specifically army to police. And I assure you, most police agencies do retrain. Just look at their websites. Every one of them I've seen wants an academy from their state, if not their department, even of transfers from other police departments.

Likewise, I only know a couple airlines that don't retrain EVERY new hire pilot. And they almost all have continued basic skills and emergency drills training. Alaska Airlines does. American does. United does. JAL does. Markair didn't... but they went out of business due to a number of bad decisions. AAI didn't, but required 25,000 hours commercial MEL experience for a copilot - roughly 8 years, and for pilots, 50,000 and at least 10,000 hours MEL PIC, and required quarterly checkrides with a MEL Commercial qualified CFII. I wanted to be a commercial pilot, but lost my medical working on my SEL and Glider Private certs. I could get a sport license, now, I suppose...

And I've known a LOT of pilots. And they all went back to school when converting types. Including the USAF Jet Jockey who lost his unaided 20/20 vision, required for fighters, and got sent back to flight school as a captain, sent back with all those brand new lieutenants, and learned to fly learjets for the Airforce. He got to skip some of the courses... ground school... but still had to learn the new airframe from essentially scratch, including the classroom parts.

Likewise, a buddy of mine, US Army Medic, E5, got assigned to a AKArNG Airborne Bn. He was sent through jump school with all the privates fresh out of infantry school. He left the Army NG, and joined the USCG, and got sent through basic and A school (RM) as an E4 PO3. Hes now a ITCS.

So yes, the military often does retrain people with experience by sending them back through school. Why? To ensure that everyone in the rating has the basic skills required.

I can see no reason why the Traveller universe's military would be any different.