My last post before I head out to work; just how Canon is the Mongoose version of our favorite Sci-Fi RPG?
Canon?
- Thread starter Blue Ghost
- Start date
They are as canon as you can get these days. For better or worse. As they are clearly publishing current material under license, I would think their 3rd Imperium material is until until Mr. Miller says otherwise.
In my opinion, he who giveth the license is the arbiter of canon. He who useth is the creator of canon. GURPS Traveller is Alternate History, by the authors, so post 1116 history should be taken with lots of scrutiny.
My question for all
Who decanonized Paranoia Press?
Who decanonized Judges Guild?
Who decanonized Group One?
Who decanonized Digest Group Publications?
In my opinion, he who giveth the license is the arbiter of canon. He who useth is the creator of canon. GURPS Traveller is Alternate History, by the authors, so post 1116 history should be taken with lots of scrutiny.
My question for all
Who decanonized Paranoia Press?
Who decanonized Judges Guild?
Who decanonized Group One?
Who decanonized Digest Group Publications?
BG,
Mongoose Traveller is CANON. Period.
It's up to us to make it fit as best we can with what came before, just as we did with MT, TNE, T4, G:T, T20, and all the rest. And, just like with all the rest, there will be bits that fit nicely, bits that fit after some thought, bits that improve things wonderfully, bits that muddy things, bits that change things, bits that are the opposite of previous bits, bits that don't do much of anything, and bits that will never fit no matter how hard we try.
It's been that way since the first years of Classic Traveller. The game is a big tent and the game contained bits that were outright diametrically opposed to one another from the very beginning.
MgT is canon, MgT is adding to canon, and MgT adding to canon is on the whole a very good thing.
Regards,
Bill
Mongoose Traveller is CANON. Period.
It's up to us to make it fit as best we can with what came before, just as we did with MT, TNE, T4, G:T, T20, and all the rest. And, just like with all the rest, there will be bits that fit nicely, bits that fit after some thought, bits that improve things wonderfully, bits that muddy things, bits that change things, bits that are the opposite of previous bits, bits that don't do much of anything, and bits that will never fit no matter how hard we try.
It's been that way since the first years of Classic Traveller. The game is a big tent and the game contained bits that were outright diametrically opposed to one another from the very beginning.
MgT is canon, MgT is adding to canon, and MgT adding to canon is on the whole a very good thing.
Regards,
Bill
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I wrote this a long while back, and Marc now sends it out when asked because he liked it, so that makes it official, until Marc changes it.
"I'm not speaking for Marc here; I'm drawing from personal experience and observation to infer basic facts to assist. If I do speak for Marc online, I'll preface the post with "Marc is asking..." or "Marc wants...", or something similar. Rob Eaglestone also does this.
That doesn't mean Rob or I have any special status. If I was writing material for the Spinward Marches, I'd probably have Hans (or several others!) review it before giving it to Marc for review, because I trust his knowledge of things I've forgotten.
So, bearing all of that in mind, here's some simple facts about canon:
1. It is, at any given moment, what Marc decides.
2. Marc reserves the right to change his mind.
3. The GURPS Traveller universe (GTU?) and the Official Traveller Universe overlap; exactly where they overlap is questionable, depending on who's asking the questions.
4. The precedent of "mostly recently published source" applies, unless that newer source is wrong about something; it can and does happen.
5. Never, ever assume that current licensees are not canon; rather, current licensees are always canon, unless they print something wrong.
6. Marc decides who is wrong.
7. There's no order to the six rules above.
That's pretty much it. On an average day of research for Marc, I'll start with MGT (if possible), then GT (including IW), then TNE (because I have to, not because I want to), then MT, then CT materials. Within those materials, the primary publisher is the first source, but any licensee could be a secondary source. There are probably *golden* sources, but nothing is perfect.
Oh, and yes, 1248 goes in there somewhere. I wouldn't consider it a primary source, but definitely a secondary source.
Heck, there's even a couple of Judges Guild items Marc mentions from time to time. Admittedly, I haven't dug much out of the JG and Paranoia Press materials for Marc, but I've got them to refer to.
And even HIWG docs and fanzines COULD be a source if it's an idea that Marc likes. For example, I pay very close attention to HIWG docs written by Clay Bush on subjects. And I've got the TML and Xboat archives setup as searchable because they have clues to things I don't remember.
I cannot think of a single source that would be outright rejected with no consideration at all. My own timeline isn't a source; it's a list of sources.
So, the moral is, don't throw rocks at other Traveller settings. We're all in the same tent, even if we imagine we're not.
Some things Marc has repeatedly said are NOT canon:
1. Anything under 100 tons jumping. 101-ton jump torpedoes might work, but 99-ton jump torpedoes simply don't.
2. DGP's Aslan art has the hands/paws wrong. I've repeatedly had this explained to me, but I still don't picture it properly."
So that's the currently official word on what is canon right now. Hope it helps.
"I'm not speaking for Marc here; I'm drawing from personal experience and observation to infer basic facts to assist. If I do speak for Marc online, I'll preface the post with "Marc is asking..." or "Marc wants...", or something similar. Rob Eaglestone also does this.
That doesn't mean Rob or I have any special status. If I was writing material for the Spinward Marches, I'd probably have Hans (or several others!) review it before giving it to Marc for review, because I trust his knowledge of things I've forgotten.
So, bearing all of that in mind, here's some simple facts about canon:
1. It is, at any given moment, what Marc decides.
2. Marc reserves the right to change his mind.
3. The GURPS Traveller universe (GTU?) and the Official Traveller Universe overlap; exactly where they overlap is questionable, depending on who's asking the questions.
4. The precedent of "mostly recently published source" applies, unless that newer source is wrong about something; it can and does happen.
5. Never, ever assume that current licensees are not canon; rather, current licensees are always canon, unless they print something wrong.
6. Marc decides who is wrong.
7. There's no order to the six rules above.
That's pretty much it. On an average day of research for Marc, I'll start with MGT (if possible), then GT (including IW), then TNE (because I have to, not because I want to), then MT, then CT materials. Within those materials, the primary publisher is the first source, but any licensee could be a secondary source. There are probably *golden* sources, but nothing is perfect.
Oh, and yes, 1248 goes in there somewhere. I wouldn't consider it a primary source, but definitely a secondary source.
Heck, there's even a couple of Judges Guild items Marc mentions from time to time. Admittedly, I haven't dug much out of the JG and Paranoia Press materials for Marc, but I've got them to refer to.
And even HIWG docs and fanzines COULD be a source if it's an idea that Marc likes. For example, I pay very close attention to HIWG docs written by Clay Bush on subjects. And I've got the TML and Xboat archives setup as searchable because they have clues to things I don't remember.
I cannot think of a single source that would be outright rejected with no consideration at all. My own timeline isn't a source; it's a list of sources.
So, the moral is, don't throw rocks at other Traveller settings. We're all in the same tent, even if we imagine we're not.
Some things Marc has repeatedly said are NOT canon:
1. Anything under 100 tons jumping. 101-ton jump torpedoes might work, but 99-ton jump torpedoes simply don't.
2. DGP's Aslan art has the hands/paws wrong. I've repeatedly had this explained to me, but I still don't picture it properly."
So that's the currently official word on what is canon right now. Hope it helps.
RandyT0001
SOC-13
I think this phrase really should be expanded into it's own rule with the change to:
"1. It depends on who's asking the questions."
Followed by:
2. It is, at any given moment, what Marc decides.
3. Marc reserves the right to change his mind.
Thanks all. I've heard some grousing about MgT, and am getting my creative spark back. In this framework I was wondering whether I should draw on MgT for my own adventure/fiction material, or whether it was a GURPS-ish affair; i.e. "canon, if you consider it thus..."
I appreciate the replies.
I appreciate the replies.
BG,
By all means draw on MgT.
As Cryton wisely pointed out, MgT currently provides more options for a GM to craft his personal Traveller universe. Any good author and, going by the samples you've shared with me, you are a good author, will want more options on his writing "palette". Thus MgT is the way to go.
The grousing you've read here is about how easily or not MgT's happily growing slate of options can be made to work within the official Traveller universe. It's not that the options are bad, far from it actually, it's just the options use in the OTU needs to be addressed.
The situation is similar to GURPS. That system provides a wide variety of options for a GM to craft personal RPG settings. G:T takes time to explain how the range of options in GURPS must be constrained when creating the OTU and how a GM can craft a personal TU by inserting non-OTU options into his game.
Regards,
Bill
Hmm, well, I don't have any MgT books, and I really can't afford them right now, but, when and if I ever get on top of my current fiscal woes, I'll have a gander at them.
Are there any freebees anywhere so I can get a feel for what MgT is like?
Are there any freebees anywhere so I can get a feel for what MgT is like?
christopher.boote
SOC-12
Yes, almost every Mongoose Traveller book has a downloadable chunk - sometimes errata, sometimes a taster, sometimes 'extras' - just follow the links on their website
All worth having though
All worth having though
Mongoose publishes a free magazine (Signs and Portents) that has Traveller articles in it that should give you some idea of what MgT is like.
Personally, I think that it looks a lot like MegaTraveller (that is, Classic Traveller with 'options' added ... a lot more effort is spent on Chargen options). Some of the nuts-and-bolts game mechanics feel different, but the 'Stuff' and the 'Chrome' feel very 'Traveller' to me.
Personally, I think that it looks a lot like MegaTraveller (that is, Classic Traveller with 'options' added ... a lot more effort is spent on Chargen options). Some of the nuts-and-bolts game mechanics feel different, but the 'Stuff' and the 'Chrome' feel very 'Traveller' to me.
Thanks again, guys. I'd like to get a feel for the style and content of what they publish.
Gray Lensman
SOC-13
I finally got around to picking up the Core book, High Guard, Scouts, Traders & Gunboats and the Reft Sector Guidebook about 3 weeks ago. 
I haven't been thru all of it yet but have at least skimmed them all (Danged real life). :nonono:
I like what I see so far, but will hold my final opinion till the first couple of play sessions are over.
I haven't been thru all of it yet but have at least skimmed them all (Danged real life). :nonono:
I like what I see so far, but will hold my final opinion till the first couple of play sessions are over.
MongooseFordy
SOC-9
Who are you, and what have you done with Bill?
spinwardpirate
SOC-13
It might be worth pointing out that the most recent GURPS Traveller hardback is Interstellar Wars. GT:ISW is set during the expansion of the Terran Confederation and its conflict with the Ziru Sirka.
He has BECOME Bill Mk. 2. And what has he done with Bill? Well...
The. Right. Thing. Period! :devil:
*checks for small redish diamond tatoo on the back of B-2's neck*
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
:rofl:
Nah, it's the same old Bill. Rumours of his cussedness are greatly exaggerated. Well, exaggerated at least. OK, maybe not exactly exaggerated so much as spot on, but he's an honest old cussed salt who calls it as he sees it, good and bad. You just have to savour the times he compliments you
Nah, it's the same old Bill. Rumours of his cussedness are greatly exaggerated. Well, exaggerated at least. OK, maybe not exactly exaggerated so much as spot on, but he's an honest old cussed salt who calls it as he sees it, good and bad. You just have to savour the times he compliments you
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