Bringing Magic into Traveller

[Jame]

A topic inspired by the "Bringing Dungeons and Dragons into Traveller" topic. Bear in mind that this only really works for CT, possibly MT and TNE, and T4. After all, GURPS and T20 have available magic systems...

If a player wants to have magic, have a roll like you would for PSI. This is the basic strength, and spells are learned like skills - but the "skill" limit is the strength of the character. Note that strength doesn't limit the number, just the strength of the spells.

 

[bairdec]

Ignoring the question of whether bringing magic into Traveller should be done at all, that sounds like the method used by Shadowrun, IIRC.

The "essence" of a character would limit the strength of the spells he could cast, but not limit what he could learn. Essence had a scale of 0-6, and was used for limiting cyberware, tracking damage done by vampiric creatures (they drained essence), and magic. Foci and fetishes could increase the strength of the spells when used. A character could learn any number of spells, even if he was unable to actually cast them. You might want to look at the GURPS magic system while you're at it. I don't recall how it worked, but it was a skill-driven system, and may work for what you are trying to do.

 

[RainOfSteel]

I'm not sure I'd do a Traveller/Fantasy w/Magic crossover using anything but T20. And even then I'd do it either as a "it only works on this one particular world" ala Christopher Stasheff's Warlock books; or, for general wide-spread use of magic, it would be a change-over type milieu where everything started heading in a dark-future/Fading Suns type of direction.

 

[aramis]

Optionally, one could use the psionics from a different edition for the "Magic side", and have both. For example, use CT for psionics, and T4 for "Magic", or T4 core (no skill rolls) for psionics, but double effect and skill roll requied for magic.

 

[Emperor Cleon]

Magic in Traveller? What a horrible thought! ::shudder::

 

[Jame]

I'm not saying "do it", just "this is one possibility for the mechanic."


And we have one of the early emperors! Hail and welcome back!

 

[Hemdian]

The Thieves World boxed set (released many years ago) had the option of being used with Traveller. IIRC Marc Miller wrote a short essay, included there, on different ways to implement magic in Traveller. These included true magic, psionics disguised as magic, and hi TL disguised as magic. If I get a chance I'll see if I can dig it out this weekend.

Regards PLST

 

[jappel]

There was an article in the Dragon many years ago about a GM who crashlanded a Traveller party into what turned out to be a D&D world. The players didn't realize at first what they were into - they just thought it was a quirky, low-TL planet. However, the GM hadn't made proper allowance for the impact of firepower; I remember a line something like "I knew there was trouble when they took down a fully-grown adult blue dragon without appreciable damage to themselves."

And this was in pre-Mercenary CT, so the heaviest thing they were carting around were an autorifle and a laser carbine. Just think of what a PGMP-13 would do...

John

 

[Chuck Anumia]

Originally posted by jappel:
There was an article in the Dragon many years ago about a GM who crashlanded a Traveller party into what turned out to be a D&D world. The players didn't realize at first what they were into - they just thought it was a quirky, low-TL planet.
John

__________________________________________________
That was really fun. My group also landed a team from the jungles of Viet Nam with everything they could carry on a Huey Gunship. They had it made until they ran out of ammo. Then they had a slow learning curve to survive on the world and half did not make it out alive.

 

[Hemdian]

Originally posted by Hemdian:
The Thieves World boxed set (released many years ago) had the option of being used with Traveller. IIRC Marc Miller wrote a short essay, included there, on different ways to implement magic in Traveller. These included true magic, psionics disguised as magic, and hi TL disguised as magic. If I get a chance I'll see if I can dig it out this weekend.

A little later than planned but I've now had a chance to read over Marc's piece in Thieves World regarding Magic. The options he suggested were:

1) Magic really does work, but for reasons not clearly understood. And it is limited to the surface of the Thieves World planet itself. Ongoing research into this phenomenon could be the basis of further adventures.

2) Magic is actually TL20 technology. Apply Clarke's Law about high tech and magic.

3) The Thieves World setting is actually just a VR theme park. Created in the ISMM software labs on Trin/Trin's Veil. Buy a holiday for Cr10,000 per person per 2-week period.

Marc also notes that in the presence of magic you can get a "tingling semi-electrical discharge". This rules out psionics as a reason (as there is no such discharge with psionics), and could be used to support the TL20 explanation.

Regards PLST

 

[robject]

There is already some overlap between magic and psionics -- telekinesis, clairvoyance, and life sense, for example.

IMTU psionics has "Arcane Knowledge" which is not taught in the Institutes. These arcana are treated like psionic skills, but they generally operate upon nature from above the level of nature. Tentatively, the two arcana skills are:

Imbue: this allows a player to transfer PSI points -- or even permanently move points from his or her PSI characteristic -- to a person or thing. Characteristic transfer should be permanent or difficult, to prevent characters from trading points back and forth. Note also that this means one who has Imbue can zero out one's psionic potential. Imbue is learned through a guild.

Totem: this allows a player to "see" things on a supernatural level. It can be considered a kind of 'detect magic' skill. Totem is learned through a temple or equivalent.

Combined with "mundane" psionic skills, these generate magical skills:

Telekinesis + Imbue = Thaumaturgy (or magical engineering) which is governed by The Principle of Sympathy (Like Produces Like) and The Principle of Contagion (Once Together, Always Together).

Awareness + Imbue = Alchemy (traditional potion-making) with its Doctrine of Signatures (The Attributes Without Mirror the Powers Within), and Magic (item enchantment or creation by ritual means) which obeys The Maxim of Persistence (Perfection Is Eternal).

Life Sense + Totem = Wizardry (demonology) which is governed by The Law of Ubiquity (Flame Permeates All) and The Law of Dichotomy (Dominance or Submission).

Teleport + Totem = Astral Travel, which allows the character to exist and move in a supernatural dimension. Needless to say, this is as dangerous as Wizardry.


Note: Sorcery (the power of charms and farseeing) is already handled by Clairvoyance. The use of charms and The Rule of Three (Thrice Spoken, Once Fulfilled) are best thought of as psionic foci that specially-gifted individuals might use in order to make exceptionally powerful feats in this category.

 

[Hemdian]

Originally posted by robject:
There is already some overlap between magic and psionics -- telekinesis, clairvoyance, and life sense, for example.

Well, Marc seemed to want to keep magic and psionics as two separate phenomona, but ... I like it. I think: used sparingly (very sparingly) it could be used to jolt some players out of their complacency.

IMTU (todate) I've stuck with the option of limiting the effect to a single world only, and implemented it similarly to 'materia' from the video game "Final Fantasy 7". (I dug FF7 out of the draw recently and started replaying it. You start the game as a terrorist going to blow up a power reactor ... how politically incorrect does that seem now!)

Regards PLST

 

[robject]

I agree on both points. It seems that Traveller is intended to model things in a non-supernatural way, so that the supernatural has to be more scarce than psionics, even, or else the game really loses its Traveller feel... and becomes more RuneQuest-like, I suppose.

Perhaps the next step is to expand the Totem concept into a full-blown pantheon of little gods, which would further differentiate psionic and magic effects between the various adherents. Eagle totem, Bear totem, Orca, Thunder god, star god/spirit, dryads, god of the Mountain, god of Jumpspace, Oyarses, eldila, fire/air spirits, war god, peace goddess, etc.

The fun starts when one tries to reconcile this increasingly strange TU with the OTU's historical roots, i.e. in Terran history. The Interstellar Wars, the Terran Confederation, UNSCA [sp], the World Wars, the British Empire, the Enlightenment, Dutch East India Co, Ming Dynasty, Ottoman Empire, Aksum, Ghengis Khan, Charlemagne, Mohammed, the Gupta Empire, Ardashir, Rome, the Christ, Asoka, Siddhartha Gautama, the Nubians, Alexander, Solomon, the Minos, Mohenjo-Daro, Sargon, Egypt, the Sumerians...

I suppose the trick is to posit a diverging point: just as the Tech Level tree seems to move the "quickest" in the center and "slowest" at the ends, perhaps materialism and deism are strongest in the center (TL 4-A), and the various forms of interactive theism are more vibrant on the ends (TL 3-, B+). So at some point in time, when Tech Level advances start stretching out, the supernatural has more obvious influence on people.

I dunno.

 

[Ran Targas]

I borrowed heavily from the Techno-mage concept.

Although I tend to avoid true magic, MTU is populated with some very powerful ancient races whose avatars and minions wield some extraordinary technologies, some of which appears very magical to the unititiated.

 

[mike wightman]

IMTU, and in several fantasy games I've run, my rationale for magic and psionics is that they are relic Ancient tecnologies - usually based on nanotec/biotec "artificial" organelles within cells which can access the "other dimensions" necessary to power psionics and magic and produce the various effects.

My latest fantasy game has something else going on though.
Each magic user is actually "adopted" by a TL21+ drone (like the ones in Iain M. Banks' Culture novels).
The drone is invisible and wanders around next to the mage making all the magic happen.
The characters are props in an AI's theme park - they just haven't figured it out yet.
I haven't decided yet if the theme park is built into a GSV, an Orbital, inside an asteroid, or planet based

 

[Chuck Anumia]

HMMMMM...A system that is convertable between AD&D and traveler where Magic could work in a limited place or acording to psionic & Totem table?

Too Cool Thanks

 

[aramis]

cweiskicher: It's called T20: The Traveller's Handbook

 

[Chuck Anumia]

Ty for the Info. I always enjoy gaining knowledge in all its forms.