Doesn't that fall under Admin?
General Breaking down SOC
- Thread starter Spinward Scout
- Start date
Yes and no. It's how to navigate bureaucracy, rather than how to establish and manage it -- at least as written. But then, the skill description is RPG focused so it wouldn't cover "mundane" uses of the skill.
That is, "this is the office that can help you with your issue, this is the person there who will know how to fix it (or, from being at the office, being able to pick out that person), this is the form you need to use and this is the wording you need to employ on line whatever to get them to approve it."
It's not, "get a +Admin DM on your HR department's ability to screen out potentially disruptive hires" or something like that. That particular job interviewer might get the +DM for Admin for that task, though. Streetwise, maybe?
I like how you responded to your own comment.
Thanks!
Thanks!
it was either that or edit it, and reactions and replies were coming quickly enough that I didn't want to confuse anyone as to what the first post started as. (someone might have liked the contents of first post but not of the second, or vice versa).I like how you responded to your own comment.
Thanks!
Badenov
SOC-13
Now that's an interesting observation....
Not necessarily.
Just in Traveller alone, there are Nobles anyone could admire and maybe even desire to emulate while some could make you do a face palm or put a shiver of fear down your spine for no apparent reason, while the rest are just 'in the background?'.
People who are nobles are just like people in other professions: good, bad, smart, dumb, introverted, extroverted, shy, outgoing, kind, angry, head in the clouds, focused in the moment, thoughtful, thoughtless, and on and on.
Some Nobles are like some Politicians, government oversight is an oxymoron.
The OTU has definite and open social class distinctions and hierarchy, unlike the USAS which tries to pretend that it does. In my own game Social Standing reflects that, while things like Carousing, Admin, etc cover the actual factors of charisma and learned social skills. I did add to my own system a special skill called Fame (sometimes more easily defined as Notoriety) that can be used try and trump or otherwise override normal social expectations and conventions but that can applied as a penalty in some circumstances as well.
D.
D.
Fame/Infamy. Nice.
MichaelSTee
SOC-12
I've posted this in a previous post about SOC, but I'll do it again:
This is my version:
SOC refers to the level of government OR how well-known the person is:
Soc Alternate Example of Social Standing
10 (A) Ruler of Tens of Thousands - a small city/large town OR known by hundreds of thousands (minor celebrity on a world, like a genre tv show cast actor)
11 (B) Ruler of Hundreds of Thousands - a medium city or small rural region OR known by millions (medium celebrity on a world, like a genre tv show lead actor)
12 (C) Ruler of Millions - a large city, or small nation on Earth OR known by tens of millions (major celebrity on a world, like a popular tv actor)
13 (D) Ruler of Tens of Millions - a very large city, or a medium-sized nation on Earth OR known by hundreds of millions (celebrity on tens of worlds, or a popular movie actor)
14 (E) Ruler of Hundreds of Millions - a large nation on Earth, or a rather large colony world OR known by billions (celebrity on hundreds of worlds)
15 (F) Ruler of Billions - a large world
16 (G) Ruler of Tens of Billions - a subsector
17 (H) Ruler of Hundreds of Billions - one or more sectors
18 (J) Ruler of Trillions - dozens of sectors
An assistant to a ruler (like a cabinet minister or agency director) may be one or two levels below the ruler, depending on the amount of access to the ruler thay may have. A beginning character's SOC is likely from being a family member of a ruler or celebrity, and is likely a level or two below that ruler or celebrity. After all the character is only 18 years old; unless they are an heir to an important person or a well-known child actor/musician/whatever, the character is not as well-known, just someone who can drop a relative's name. If SOC increases during chargen, this usually reflects the character becoming more well-known for some reason (or perhaps the relative has also moved up in status: your favorite uncle suddenly goes from a lesser relative to a Count to being a Count himself, thus also raising your SOC).
This isn't perfect, and I think SOC is still problematic. I like the idea of each level being 10 times better than the level below. but it doesn't work well below level A.
This is my version:
SOC refers to the level of government OR how well-known the person is:
Soc Alternate Example of Social Standing
10 (A) Ruler of Tens of Thousands - a small city/large town OR known by hundreds of thousands (minor celebrity on a world, like a genre tv show cast actor)
11 (B) Ruler of Hundreds of Thousands - a medium city or small rural region OR known by millions (medium celebrity on a world, like a genre tv show lead actor)
12 (C) Ruler of Millions - a large city, or small nation on Earth OR known by tens of millions (major celebrity on a world, like a popular tv actor)
13 (D) Ruler of Tens of Millions - a very large city, or a medium-sized nation on Earth OR known by hundreds of millions (celebrity on tens of worlds, or a popular movie actor)
14 (E) Ruler of Hundreds of Millions - a large nation on Earth, or a rather large colony world OR known by billions (celebrity on hundreds of worlds)
15 (F) Ruler of Billions - a large world
16 (G) Ruler of Tens of Billions - a subsector
17 (H) Ruler of Hundreds of Billions - one or more sectors
18 (J) Ruler of Trillions - dozens of sectors
An assistant to a ruler (like a cabinet minister or agency director) may be one or two levels below the ruler, depending on the amount of access to the ruler thay may have. A beginning character's SOC is likely from being a family member of a ruler or celebrity, and is likely a level or two below that ruler or celebrity. After all the character is only 18 years old; unless they are an heir to an important person or a well-known child actor/musician/whatever, the character is not as well-known, just someone who can drop a relative's name. If SOC increases during chargen, this usually reflects the character becoming more well-known for some reason (or perhaps the relative has also moved up in status: your favorite uncle suddenly goes from a lesser relative to a Count to being a Count himself, thus also raising your SOC).
This isn't perfect, and I think SOC is still problematic. I like the idea of each level being 10 times better than the level below. but it doesn't work well below level A.
Popularity (positive or negative) in Marvel Superheroes.
Reputation in d20 Star Wars.
I was thinking of Fame a bit, too. But how do you handle it with Nobles? If a Noble isn't popular or is known as Ruthless or Evil in Traveller, they don't take the title away, do they?
Yeah, it works pretty well. In addition to it being a straight award on Material Benefits, I also factored it into being Knighthoods and or being made a Baronet - that requires a Social Standing test if enlisted or low ranking officer, failure grants Fame instead of the title.
D.
Fame is a extra potential factor in normal Social tests (Social Standing, Carousing, Admin, Liaison, Bribery, etc) - it's applied if the Referee agrees with the player OR (in the case of Infamy) as a negative modifier. The In/Famous Corsair with Fame-2 suffers an additional -2 to Law Level checks for harassment (as does anyone with him). The Famous Marine with Fame-1 get's an additional +1 to their normal Carousing-2 checks in general (especially at a Marine or Navy bar) but suffers a -1 at Army bars. The Famous-3 Entertainer/Other can try to use their Fame as a substitute for Bribery when trying to get a favor from a local official.
Noble's are slightly less likely to have Fame because of how I arranged the mechanics of gaining it, but they don't need to have Fame because they have actual rank and position to rely upon and can often (though not always) use a Social Standing check in similar ways. Nobles often treat Fame as somewhat tawdry and gauche, perhaps even to be avoided to a degree ala "breeding and station should always trump being written up in some sordid tabloid" - so it really matters *why* they're famous. If it's for the wrong reason they'd be likely to have negatives with snobbish, old money nobles.
D.
In MT & TNE that's Recruiting.
I find it amusing that managing people is not a trainable skill, but leading them is.
My take on that is, that to the extent it's considered at all, it's left to player-referee interaction.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Social Standing, as a primary characteristic, is kinda broken.
You can't solve it, without changing it, or eliminating it, adding appropriate traits and skills as substitutes.
You can't solve it, without changing it, or eliminating it, adding appropriate traits and skills as substitutes.
I use TNE (which bases almost all social skills off CHA), and I look at SOC (which TNE considers a secondary stat) as a gate-keeper. If a character's SOC is in the right range for whatever social interaction they're attempting, they get no penalty. If it's too low (or high) the task gets harder. Act/Bluff (or other skill if the player can come up with a good way of using it) can remove the penalty (what TNE refers to as an 'enabling skill'). This might mean using Act/Bluff twice, once to persuade someone you're of the right social class, and then that they should therefore do something for you.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Soc represents social rank - the future culture that Traveller defaults to in its core tropes assumes those furute cultures place an emphasis on social rank, you are not in the US or EU anymore.
There have been cultures throughout human history were social rank was really important for interactions.
Traveller lacks interpersonal characteristics (which is why in my house game I have added characteristics) but, as others have noted, there are skills that cover interpersoanl interaction.
As to Soc not being useful "do you know who I am" works in the Third Imperium and any setting that uses original CT tropes.
There have been cultures throughout human history were social rank was really important for interactions.
Traveller lacks interpersonal characteristics (which is why in my house game I have added characteristics) but, as others have noted, there are skills that cover interpersoanl interaction.
As to Soc not being useful "do you know who I am" works in the Third Imperium and any setting that uses original CT tropes.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Titles don't always reflect actual influence.
I recall in one Heyer novel, the heroine's very rich, fashionable, and untitled, love interest, visits his maternal grandmother, who reminds him that his grandfather was a duke, in regards as to what he owes his family and marriage.
I recall in one Heyer novel, the heroine's very rich, fashionable, and untitled, love interest, visits his maternal grandmother, who reminds him that his grandfather was a duke, in regards as to what he owes his family and marriage.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Titles for social positions in hierarchies change, the deference those of a lower rank must pay to those of higher rank is baked into the system. Doesn't matter if it the civilian, military, religious or corporate authority, if there is a hierarchy you have a social rank.
Don't like it? Don't play in a setting with a hierarchical culture. Or have your characters join the Ine Givar... but I bet there is still a hierarchy.
Don't like it? Don't play in a setting with a hierarchical culture. Or have your characters join the Ine Givar... but I bet there is still a hierarchy.
