book 4-7 or not ?

[flykiller]

Also, what do you guys suggest for introducing some of the extra skills if you are using just the simple creation system ?

you can go with 2d6 for a bell curve, and place more likely skills in the middle and less likely skills at the margins.

or you can go with (d6)(d6) for a 6x6 table, and populate it with skills as you like - any one location will be just as likely as any other, so you can fine-tune the likelihood of obtaining any skill in relation to any other.

personally I don't do any of that, I just set the characters on career paths and mostly let them choose what they want.

first term scout: "ok, they start you doing gofer work in a shipyard. pick three: vacc suit, 0G, medic, comms, mechanics, ship's boat."

second term: "ok, some schools open up. you can go to flight school or to tech school. or, a recon ship is leaving for a four year tour and is willing to put you through first contact school if you'll go. which do you pick?"

if you let the player walk through the character's development they identify with him much more.

 

[atpollard]

Originally posted by flykiller:
personally I don't do any of that, I just set the characters on career paths and mostly let them choose what they want.

first term scout: "ok, they start you doing gofer work in a shipyard. pick three: vacc suit, 0G, medic, comms, mechanics, ship's boat."

second term: "ok, some schools open up. you can go to flight school or to tech school. or, a recon ship is leaving for a four year tour and is willing to put you through first contact school if you'll go. which do you pick?"

if you let the player walk through the character's development they identify with him much more.

I really like that idea. Especially the semi role-playing aspect of the player's choices impacting the character's career.

I never went quite that far, but I would let a player roll the die for a skill first, and then pick which table to apply it to. This gives them a chance to choose one of several skills but not any skill.

 

[atpollard]

Originally posted by flykiller:
personally I don't do any of that, I just set the characters on career paths and mostly let them choose what they want.

first term scout: "ok, they start you doing gofer work in a shipyard. pick three: vacc suit, 0G, medic, comms, mechanics, ship's boat."

second term: "ok, some schools open up. you can go to flight school or to tech school. or, a recon ship is leaving for a four year tour and is willing to put you through first contact school if you'll go. which do you pick?"

if you let the player walk through the character's development they identify with him much more.

I really like that idea. Especially the semi role-playing aspect of the player's choices impacting the character's career.

I never went quite that far, but I would let a player roll the die for a skill first, and then pick which table to apply it to. This gives them a chance to choose one of several skills but not any skill.

 

[kafka47]

You might consider going the Bk1/Sup4 route, but allowing your players to choose their career, choose their skills, and maybe fudge a survival or reenlist roll if necessary.

This is the route that I would go. But, instead of fudging the survival roll, just don't let it equate death but some sort of interesting handicap. In my typewritten notes, I have a long list of possible handicaps. I am sure others exist, if anything, takes GURPS Disadvantages and apply dice rolls to them.

 

[kafka47]

You might consider going the Bk1/Sup4 route, but allowing your players to choose their career, choose their skills, and maybe fudge a survival or reenlist roll if necessary.

This is the route that I would go. But, instead of fudging the survival roll, just don't let it equate death but some sort of interesting handicap. In my typewritten notes, I have a long list of possible handicaps. I am sure others exist, if anything, takes GURPS Disadvantages and apply dice rolls to them.

 

[Gruffty]

My view is that it depends on what your players want their characters to be able to do.

LBB1/Supp4 CharGen is definitely faster than LBB4-7; but, as has been noted, LBB4-7 give more depth to the characters.

I feel that LBB1/Supp4 characters have to work together more often due to the lower numbers and levels of skills each character has - they have to "pool" their skills to achieve a goal. However LBB1/Supp4 characters lack the specialist skills you can get in the enhanced CharGen sequence.

For a "Firefly-feel" game, I'd go for LBB1/Supp 4 CharGen for player characters.

 

[Gruffty]

My view is that it depends on what your players want their characters to be able to do.

LBB1/Supp4 CharGen is definitely faster than LBB4-7; but, as has been noted, LBB4-7 give more depth to the characters.

I feel that LBB1/Supp4 characters have to work together more often due to the lower numbers and levels of skills each character has - they have to "pool" their skills to achieve a goal. However LBB1/Supp4 characters lack the specialist skills you can get in the enhanced CharGen sequence.

For a "Firefly-feel" game, I'd go for LBB1/Supp 4 CharGen for player characters.

 

[weasel fierce]

I talked to my players and they all seem keen on the completely random aspect (we've recently been playing GURPS and Heroquest, which are heavy choice based games), so we'll go with that. I figure I'll compile a list of the different skills that was introduced, and make a "random skill" list. Each term, roll a D6. On a 6, you get a completely randomk skill, and get to explain how you picked that up.

Still wondering about letting scouts get a bit extra as well, to compensate for them not earning promotions (and hence, skills)

 

[weasel fierce]

I talked to my players and they all seem keen on the completely random aspect (we've recently been playing GURPS and Heroquest, which are heavy choice based games), so we'll go with that. I figure I'll compile a list of the different skills that was introduced, and make a "random skill" list. Each term, roll a D6. On a 6, you get a completely randomk skill, and get to explain how you picked that up.

Still wondering about letting scouts get a bit extra as well, to compensate for them not earning promotions (and hence, skills)

 

[Jeff M. Hopper]

Scouts are kind of balanced by the possibility of getting a scout/courier (essentially free) when mustering out.

weasel fierce? I think I've been posting to your thread on RPGNet Forum.

 

[Jeff M. Hopper]

Scouts are kind of balanced by the possibility of getting a scout/courier (essentially free) when mustering out.

weasel fierce? I think I've been posting to your thread on RPGNet Forum.

 

[Jame]

I took a page from T4 for scouts - in my per-year Basic Chargen, they get one skill per year and one extra skill every second.

 

[Gadrin]

Originally posted by weasel fierce:
I talked to my players and they all seem keen on the completely random aspect (we've recently been playing GURPS and Heroquest, which are heavy choice based games), so we'll go with that. I figure I'll compile a list of the different skills that was introduced, and make a "random skill" list. Each term, roll a D6. On a 6, you get a completely randomk skill, and get to explain how you picked that up.

Still wondering about letting scouts get a bit extra as well, to compensate for them not earning promotions (and hence, skills)

I suppose you could gen the character as per LBBs and then GURPS-ify it, probably want a computer generator to minimize the PC building time, or if you trust your players, have them do it in their off time.

Random Skills ? -- are you talking about making/having the players play characters they haven't done before ? (the one guy who's always the combat-expert and so on).

If so, hats off to your group (although I doubt its something unique) for taking the chances, and it keeps the GM on his toes too, in some cases.

 

[Gadrin]

Originally posted by weasel fierce:
I talked to my players and they all seem keen on the completely random aspect (we've recently been playing GURPS and Heroquest, which are heavy choice based games), so we'll go with that. I figure I'll compile a list of the different skills that was introduced, and make a "random skill" list. Each term, roll a D6. On a 6, you get a completely randomk skill, and get to explain how you picked that up.

Still wondering about letting scouts get a bit extra as well, to compensate for them not earning promotions (and hence, skills)

I suppose you could gen the character as per LBBs and then GURPS-ify it, probably want a computer generator to minimize the PC building time, or if you trust your players, have them do it in their off time.

Random Skills ? -- are you talking about making/having the players play characters they haven't done before ? (the one guy who's always the combat-expert and so on).

If so, hats off to your group (although I doubt its something unique) for taking the chances, and it keeps the GM on his toes too, in some cases.

 

[Klaus]

The problem I find with random chargen is that the results are most often amateur generalists; that is, they have several skills of level 1 or 2. Acheiving a character with expertise (3+) in a skill is not easy.

This is the same with either basic CG or extended CG. The extended CG is fun as a solitaire minigame, but really for speed, equity, and skill balance the basic method is better.

The only problem here is that Scouts suffer from lack of skills, and many of the COTI careers are either deeply flawed (ie, Scientists with no science skills) or irrelevant (flyers and sailors aren't really required or that useful in an sf game like Traveller). IMHO getting a free scoutship only just balances the rather steep survival threshold that Scouts suffer from.

Solutions...
For skills balance, add another roll for a bonus skill (or school assignment if you prefer). Make it hard for those careers with ranks and promotions (at best 10+), and easier for those careers without ranks (like Rogues and Scouts), say 7+.

Those careers with officer ranks should also allow promotion as non-coms, so that non-officers are not penalised.

To allow expertise, let the player use the term skill increase to raise a skill already acquired, as long as it does not raise the score above 3. Refs could restrict which skills can be raised in this way dependent on career (so Navy vets could raise say Ship's Boat or Engineering, but not Gambling).

Skills increases from promotion or bonus skill are rolled as per normal.

Skills unavailable on the original basic tables could be included as extra tables for all career types, with social skills such as Liaison, Carousing, Gambling, or hobby skills such as Hunting or Equestrian. Career specific skills such as Recon, Interrogation, Demolitions, etc, could be included as part of a School. ie, Marines can enter Commando School (11+ on the bonus skill roll) to acquire Recon or Demolitions, and then after that could roll on that table for any skill roll.

You might also want to use Mustering out points to allow a single 'hobby' skill roll.

Some suggestions for School skill tables.

Commando
1 Recon
2 Gun Cbt
3 Demolitions
4 Fwd Observer
5 Tactics
6 Battle Dress

Intelligence
1 Streetwise
2 Gun Cbt
3 Forgery
4 Bribery
5 Interrogation
6 Computer

Military
1 Leader
2 Cbt Engineering or Naval Architect
3 Recruiting
4 Liaison
5 Instruction
6 Tactics or Ship Tactics

Technical
1 Mechanical
2 Electronic
3 Computer
4 Engineering
5 Gravitics
6 Vehicle

Life/Hobby Skills
1 Carousing
2 Gambling
3 Brawling
4 Equestrian
5 Hunting
6 +1 EDU

Apologies for the long post, but I was actually pondering such things as I tried to get to sleep last night.

 

[Klaus]

The problem I find with random chargen is that the results are most often amateur generalists; that is, they have several skills of level 1 or 2. Acheiving a character with expertise (3+) in a skill is not easy.

This is the same with either basic CG or extended CG. The extended CG is fun as a solitaire minigame, but really for speed, equity, and skill balance the basic method is better.

The only problem here is that Scouts suffer from lack of skills, and many of the COTI careers are either deeply flawed (ie, Scientists with no science skills) or irrelevant (flyers and sailors aren't really required or that useful in an sf game like Traveller). IMHO getting a free scoutship only just balances the rather steep survival threshold that Scouts suffer from.

Solutions...
For skills balance, add another roll for a bonus skill (or school assignment if you prefer). Make it hard for those careers with ranks and promotions (at best 10+), and easier for those careers without ranks (like Rogues and Scouts), say 7+.

Those careers with officer ranks should also allow promotion as non-coms, so that non-officers are not penalised.

To allow expertise, let the player use the term skill increase to raise a skill already acquired, as long as it does not raise the score above 3. Refs could restrict which skills can be raised in this way dependent on career (so Navy vets could raise say Ship's Boat or Engineering, but not Gambling).

Skills increases from promotion or bonus skill are rolled as per normal.

Skills unavailable on the original basic tables could be included as extra tables for all career types, with social skills such as Liaison, Carousing, Gambling, or hobby skills such as Hunting or Equestrian. Career specific skills such as Recon, Interrogation, Demolitions, etc, could be included as part of a School. ie, Marines can enter Commando School (11+ on the bonus skill roll) to acquire Recon or Demolitions, and then after that could roll on that table for any skill roll.

You might also want to use Mustering out points to allow a single 'hobby' skill roll.

Some suggestions for School skill tables.

Commando
1 Recon
2 Gun Cbt
3 Demolitions
4 Fwd Observer
5 Tactics
6 Battle Dress

Intelligence
1 Streetwise
2 Gun Cbt
3 Forgery
4 Bribery
5 Interrogation
6 Computer

Military
1 Leader
2 Cbt Engineering or Naval Architect
3 Recruiting
4 Liaison
5 Instruction
6 Tactics or Ship Tactics

Technical
1 Mechanical
2 Electronic
3 Computer
4 Engineering
5 Gravitics
6 Vehicle

Life/Hobby Skills
1 Carousing
2 Gambling
3 Brawling
4 Equestrian
5 Hunting
6 +1 EDU

Apologies for the long post, but I was actually pondering such things as I tried to get to sleep last night.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Klaus:
The problem I find with random chargen is that the results are most often amateur generalists; that is, they have several skills of level 1 or 2. Acheiving a character with expertise (3+) in a skill is not easy.

It's funny, I always kinda thought that was the very definition of a "Traveller", aka an Adventurer. The jack-o-all-trades, master of none. Working for passage on any old tramp trader or trying to make the payments on their own clapped out Free-Trader.

In my opinion the "experts" (skill 3+) would not be out there risking life and limb for a few credits when they could have a nice safe job paying well with health benefits.

I think random char gen is a perfect reflection of the typical adventurer player character in Traveller. It's not flawed, it's well designed feature. Of course all the munchkins will disagree in the strongest possible terms

OK, I'll grant there are some flaws like Scientists not getting Science skills but those and most of the other minor problems are mostly easily fixed. And much of your fixes here are pretty good ones. Thanks for sharing your thoughts Klaus.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Klaus:
The problem I find with random chargen is that the results are most often amateur generalists; that is, they have several skills of level 1 or 2. Acheiving a character with expertise (3+) in a skill is not easy.

It's funny, I always kinda thought that was the very definition of a "Traveller", aka an Adventurer. The jack-o-all-trades, master of none. Working for passage on any old tramp trader or trying to make the payments on their own clapped out Free-Trader.

In my opinion the "experts" (skill 3+) would not be out there risking life and limb for a few credits when they could have a nice safe job paying well with health benefits.

I think random char gen is a perfect reflection of the typical adventurer player character in Traveller. It's not flawed, it's well designed feature. Of course all the munchkins will disagree in the strongest possible terms

OK, I'll grant there are some flaws like Scientists not getting Science skills but those and most of the other minor problems are mostly easily fixed. And much of your fixes here are pretty good ones. Thanks for sharing your thoughts Klaus.

 

[Supplement Four]

I, personally, love the "roll your career" aspect of Traveller. It's flat out fun. My players love "discovering" their characters.

It's been my experience that the die rolls during chargen add to creativity towards the character. When you use a point system, your fighters are (very typically) always strong. Your tech guys are (almost always) exceptional in their areas of expertise.

With Traveller, you may not get what you set out to play. But, I've found that to be an asset, not a detriment.

The CT Traveller chargen system is my favorite of any other rpg I've ever played.

-S4

 

[Supplement Four]

I, personally, love the "roll your career" aspect of Traveller. It's flat out fun. My players love "discovering" their characters.

It's been my experience that the die rolls during chargen add to creativity towards the character. When you use a point system, your fighters are (very typically) always strong. Your tech guys are (almost always) exceptional in their areas of expertise.

With Traveller, you may not get what you set out to play. But, I've found that to be an asset, not a detriment.

The CT Traveller chargen system is my favorite of any other rpg I've ever played.

-S4