Blow the Powerplant! Really?
- Thread starter SpaceBadger
- Start date
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Ummmm, huh?
o: Aren't the warheads on those very missiles intended to destroy ships when actually employed?The warheads are - the warhead charges are there to start the reaction. 
They force the material together - i.e. expend the majority of their force inward. Prior post was referring to using just the explosives from the nuc arsenal to destroy a ship. If the weaps used more conventional fuel, the fuel going up would do a lot more damage than the charges in the warhead. (If gravitic, probably even less so.)
They force the material together - i.e. expend the majority of their force inward. Prior post was referring to using just the explosives from the nuc arsenal to destroy a ship. If the weaps used more conventional fuel, the fuel going up would do a lot more damage than the charges in the warhead. (If gravitic, probably even less so.)
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
While it is hard to estimate what might be done in the future, current US nuclear warheads use low-sensitivity explosives, precisely to avoid sympathetic detonation. Also, if these are in a magazine, they are likely to be in separate compartments or storage cases, to allow for missile check-out prior to being loaded onto the launcher.
If you really want to blow the ship up, and have someone with the necessary knowledge, it would be easiest to take one of your missile nuclear warheads, over-ride the safety features and have someone manually detonate it. That would not exactly be easy to do, but it is probably the most feasible way to do it.
Note, I am assuming that this is a military ship. I cannot see civilian ships carrying nuclear warhead missiles.
Agree Military ships would be the ones most likley to attempt to scuttle by explosives, they would also be the least likley to do so where they would cause death to civilians. I cannot however say the same for the port facilities, as a military force that's scuttling it's weapons and means to fight, would also be denying the port facilities to the oppsition by demolition and burning.
If a ship is near to a gravity well and still has maneuver capability, (and nobody is nearby with enough tractor beams), it's rather difficult to prevent them from using orbital velocity and gravity to take care of the scuttling.
At a gas giant, go into a fuel scooping run, point the nose down and power dive, see how deep you can get before the ship is melted/vaporized. There are many ways for a person with possession of a spaceship can arrainge the complete destruction of the vessel and all aboard.
Merchant with fuel bladders instead of cargo (ship is 80% LH2) comming to land or taking off at a nice sedate pace, blows it's hatches in a oxygen atmosphere, spilling 160 Dt of liquid hydrogen to mix with the air over the port then ignites the mix... pretty effective FAE. No need to fiddle with the power plant, 1440 tons (9X160) equavalent of explosive... 1.4Kt, and that's just a 200 Ton type A1. This is why we have 5 to 10 mile clear zones around our space ports today, our LOX and LH2 rockets are FAE bombs just waiting for an oops moment to unmake our day.
If a ship is near to a gravity well and still has maneuver capability, (and nobody is nearby with enough tractor beams), it's rather difficult to prevent them from using orbital velocity and gravity to take care of the scuttling.
At a gas giant, go into a fuel scooping run, point the nose down and power dive, see how deep you can get before the ship is melted/vaporized. There are many ways for a person with possession of a spaceship can arrainge the complete destruction of the vessel and all aboard.
Merchant with fuel bladders instead of cargo (ship is 80% LH2) comming to land or taking off at a nice sedate pace, blows it's hatches in a oxygen atmosphere, spilling 160 Dt of liquid hydrogen to mix with the air over the port then ignites the mix... pretty effective FAE. No need to fiddle with the power plant, 1440 tons (9X160) equavalent of explosive... 1.4Kt, and that's just a 200 Ton type A1. This is why we have 5 to 10 mile clear zones around our space ports today, our LOX and LH2 rockets are FAE bombs just waiting for an oops moment to unmake our day.
High quality ports IMTU have sniffers and high pressure, rapid dispersion aerogel fire suppressants. Burning a bunch of L-Hyd above the port, out of range of the suppression system, will just result in a loud light show - and man made rain.
Lower quality ports will just ignite the L-Hyd for you - before it can do significant harm to the port. :devil:
Active defense against kinetic attacks is possible... brute force blowing a mass up is just not the answer as the debris will largely still be coming at you. Instead you might attach to the incoming mass, and/or use directional pressure (air blast, gravitics, ...) to change its velocity/direction to minimize or nullify it as a threat. Burning it up (converting kinetic energy to heat and solid masses to gases) might also be an option. At highest TLs, changing the form of matter, of course - if one could convert the incoming matter into typical solar neutrinos, its all good!
Lower quality ports will just ignite the L-Hyd for you - before it can do significant harm to the port. :devil:
Active defense against kinetic attacks is possible... brute force blowing a mass up is just not the answer as the debris will largely still be coming at you. Instead you might attach to the incoming mass, and/or use directional pressure (air blast, gravitics, ...) to change its velocity/direction to minimize or nullify it as a threat. Burning it up (converting kinetic energy to heat and solid masses to gases) might also be an option. At highest TLs, changing the form of matter, of course - if one could convert the incoming matter into typical solar neutrinos, its all good!
TNE and T4 both assume Detonation Laser missiles - which are in fact nukes - as the standard civilian missile.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
It would be nice in the Real World if fuel-air explosions were so easy.
That seems to contradict the library data that says the Imperium intervenes if it discovers nukes in the possession of anyone other than itself.
Hans
TNE is post Imperium, and T4 is effectively pre-imperium... so the library data pretty much doesn't apply, but for what it's worth, they explicitly changed to det lasers in TNE because someone decided missiles can't actually hit in ship combat... and T4 pretty much just assumes the TNE tech assumptions whole cloth.
Right you are. On the other hand, that also makes it irrelevant to Classic Era campaigns.
Hans
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Considering the topic is basically "how do I destroy my own ship?" there sure is a lot of interest in somehow nuking your own ship around here.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
Considering the topic is basically "how do I destroy my own ship?" there sure is a lot of interest in somehow nuking your own ship around here.
True, and no one has considered what the chances are for a suicidal crew member who would like to go out with a memorable bang.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Or an AI virus designed to take out the ship...
IMHO any self destruct has to has a physical lockout to prevent a computer glich blowing the ship.
IMHO any self destruct has to has a physical lockout to prevent a computer glich blowing the ship.
Hi,
I always assumed all you had to do was have someone on the bridge say "Computer, initiate self-destruct sequence 1, code 1-0-0-1 Alpha 1", followed by someone else adding "Destruct sequence 2, code 1-1-0-0-2 A-2B". And after that the nice computer lady would say "Destruct sequence initiated" and start counting down to a big boom.
I always assumed all you had to do was have someone on the bridge say "Computer, initiate self-destruct sequence 1, code 1-0-0-1 Alpha 1", followed by someone else adding "Destruct sequence 2, code 1-1-0-0-2 A-2B". And after that the nice computer lady would say "Destruct sequence initiated" and start counting down to a big boom.
Lycanorukke
SOC-13
Well, those ships in question were loaded to the gills with antimatter, so dont even bother with the whole 0-0-0-destruct-0 crap. Just sent a Redshirt to press the button marked "Containment Field Off".
They also seemed a bit blase about antimatter in general.....
Bridge Officer 1: "Engineering says the antimatter containment is starting to fail"
Bridge Officer 2: "What happens when it fails?"
Viewer: "WtF?"
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