Battletech in Traveller?
- Thread starter batminimus
- Start date
jfetters
SOC-14 1K
Actually, TNE has something like this - the Schalli Battle Dress.
It is just shy of 1 ton, but in form, it looks like a cross between an Atlas and a Mad Cat, if I remember my 'Mechs correctly.
So the suit is vaguely human-shaped controlled by a vaguely dolphin-shaped creature sitting in a big tank of water in the middle.
epicenter00
SOC-13
My favorite arguement about mechs is that they're unrealistic because of ground pressure and weight of armor distribution over surface area. (Mind you, this is all true and not in question.) But the people arguing this are the same ones who'll happily build "anti-gravity" vehicles moved by "thrust plates" utilzing handwavium technology (tm) like it was somehow more realistic.
This is a sci-fi world, and people can put the cut-offs for what works and what doesn't where they wish.
Hi Spectre, welcome.
With any sci-fi you can get that won't work, but my philosophy is, well if we knew how such cool ideas could be made to work we would all be rich and it wouldn't be fiction after all.
IMHO the biggest "problem" with mecha is internal consistency with how most settings are defined. For them to be viable machines of war they would have to have some advantage over non-walker units at least in some tactical situations. Given that many classical mecha are huge, I would postulate they have some serious advantage on the battle field (relative to other vehicles) that would make them viable.
Here's my ideas to fit them into YTU. Give contra-grav/anti-grav designs a major disadvantage, three are: cost, vulnerability and signature.
cost
If grav units cost a fortune they will still be part of armies but to a lesser extent and used where needed. Cost usually does not deter PCs after a point so this is one way for them to be available to PCs but not prevalent in armie or at large. Cost can also include ease of repair and amount of maintenance, instead of sheer up front cost. The logistical load of something that breaks down all the time is not good for a large army on a budget. High maintainance costs if the vehicle is pushed might also make grav vehicles viable for civilian use but disfavored as the core military heavy weapons platform.
vulnerability
On vulnerability, if grav vehicles are easy to knock out they will be disfavored by the military or used more judiciously; but may still find wide application in civilian use.
signature
My favorite. In your Traveller universe (YTU) you may speculate that contra-grav and anti-grav vehicles emit gravitons (or what have you) that gives them a huge "electronic-type" signature on the future equivalent of radar. More improtantly, these emissions might be detectable over-the-horizon. Mech being powered by good old fashioned legs emit no such signature and can take advantage of all the higher tech to mask their other emissions. They are detectable only by line-of-sight.
If I used mecha, I imagine that they sneak around and are heavily camouflage. They make use of there legs to travel in a squat low to the ground, but can quickly pop up to fire or scan for targets. Even if the grav vehicle signature is not so huge, mecha might find a use as heavy forward scouting vehicles, a fine role for a PC to fill.
legs vs. treads
In a far flung interstellar empire, walker vs. tracked vehicles might be more of a standard ground combat unit as legs can usually navigate more broken terrain than tracks. In addition, the structure of the feet might be such they can grapple onto ship hulls, giving mecha a nother potential use not found in wheeled or tracked vehicles. To address ground pressure issues give the mecha big feet, and maybe they crawl if it is really muddy.
humano-form
If you postulate some form of integrated neural control (e.g. tapped into the nerves of the arms and legs), or even just amplified human motion, human-form mecha make some sense as the control system relies on the built in human experience with using arms, legs and balancing a bi-pedal being. In fact to take advantage of this with minimal computer processing, the mecha could be built with the center of gravity of a human. And since the center of gravity of men and women differ, maybe there is a role women pilots can serve best. In a sense, if the proper nerves could be tapped and the signals amplified, the control system might be highly analog and thus potentially much more reliable/tougher than the complex computer processing that might be needed to maintain a contra-grav field.
Just some suggestions to address the internal consistency problems and the why of walkers vs tracks vs wheels vs contra-grav.
With any sci-fi you can get that won't work, but my philosophy is, well if we knew how such cool ideas could be made to work we would all be rich and it wouldn't be fiction after all.
IMHO the biggest "problem" with mecha is internal consistency with how most settings are defined. For them to be viable machines of war they would have to have some advantage over non-walker units at least in some tactical situations. Given that many classical mecha are huge, I would postulate they have some serious advantage on the battle field (relative to other vehicles) that would make them viable.
Here's my ideas to fit them into YTU. Give contra-grav/anti-grav designs a major disadvantage, three are: cost, vulnerability and signature.
cost
If grav units cost a fortune they will still be part of armies but to a lesser extent and used where needed. Cost usually does not deter PCs after a point so this is one way for them to be available to PCs but not prevalent in armie or at large. Cost can also include ease of repair and amount of maintenance, instead of sheer up front cost. The logistical load of something that breaks down all the time is not good for a large army on a budget. High maintainance costs if the vehicle is pushed might also make grav vehicles viable for civilian use but disfavored as the core military heavy weapons platform.
vulnerability
On vulnerability, if grav vehicles are easy to knock out they will be disfavored by the military or used more judiciously; but may still find wide application in civilian use.
signature
My favorite. In your Traveller universe (YTU) you may speculate that contra-grav and anti-grav vehicles emit gravitons (or what have you) that gives them a huge "electronic-type" signature on the future equivalent of radar. More improtantly, these emissions might be detectable over-the-horizon. Mech being powered by good old fashioned legs emit no such signature and can take advantage of all the higher tech to mask their other emissions. They are detectable only by line-of-sight.
If I used mecha, I imagine that they sneak around and are heavily camouflage. They make use of there legs to travel in a squat low to the ground, but can quickly pop up to fire or scan for targets. Even if the grav vehicle signature is not so huge, mecha might find a use as heavy forward scouting vehicles, a fine role for a PC to fill.
legs vs. treads
In a far flung interstellar empire, walker vs. tracked vehicles might be more of a standard ground combat unit as legs can usually navigate more broken terrain than tracks. In addition, the structure of the feet might be such they can grapple onto ship hulls, giving mecha a nother potential use not found in wheeled or tracked vehicles. To address ground pressure issues give the mecha big feet, and maybe they crawl if it is really muddy.
humano-form
If you postulate some form of integrated neural control (e.g. tapped into the nerves of the arms and legs), or even just amplified human motion, human-form mecha make some sense as the control system relies on the built in human experience with using arms, legs and balancing a bi-pedal being. In fact to take advantage of this with minimal computer processing, the mecha could be built with the center of gravity of a human. And since the center of gravity of men and women differ, maybe there is a role women pilots can serve best. In a sense, if the proper nerves could be tapped and the signals amplified, the control system might be highly analog and thus potentially much more reliable/tougher than the complex computer processing that might be needed to maintain a contra-grav field.
Just some suggestions to address the internal consistency problems and the why of walkers vs tracks vs wheels vs contra-grav.
batminimus
SOC-3
Well there is a few differing points on this one.
my traveller group is using the current t20 rules
i had an idea to have our group to stumble across some experiment tech ie a battlemech at some offworld research lab, but as it has been stated this tech has its limits i planned to give the unit limited fuel/ammmo, so it would not be a long term thing. "veltyen" has given me a start with the stats presented(thanks mate)so i will try to push on from there.
For anyone that interested check out the link for a sneak peak at a bit of a possible Battletech movie
http://www.daveschool.com/MoviePages/MechWarrior/MechWarriorViewer.htm
Thanks again to all those that put in their views.
my traveller group is using the current t20 rules
i had an idea to have our group to stumble across some experiment tech ie a battlemech at some offworld research lab, but as it has been stated this tech has its limits i planned to give the unit limited fuel/ammmo, so it would not be a long term thing. "veltyen" has given me a start with the stats presented(thanks mate)so i will try to push on from there.
For anyone that interested check out the link for a sneak peak at a bit of a possible Battletech movie
http://www.daveschool.com/MoviePages/MechWarrior/MechWarriorViewer.htm
Thanks again to all those that put in their views.
I was about to chip in with something similar, then I did some of the math.
An Atlas (100 Ton Battletech design) is 15+ metres tall, quite wide compared to its height, and relatively deep. Cutting that into dTon cubes using a base of 15*12*6 metres comes to 96 dTon.
I suspect coincidence.
batminimus
SOC-3
you could get over the weight issue by installing gav plates in their feet?
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
But, if you put grav plates in their feet, you may as well build a grav-based tank.
Crashlogic
SOC-8
Well for me, mechs never made sense. They have knees. Knees can be disabled. Don't get me wrong, I love mechwarrior on the computer, but every time I look that the weapon restrictions limited clan LRM and artillery, and hear the cry of "Camper" or "legger" I am remind how vulnerable a weapon syst a mech is.
In traveller, depsite the mecha's huge volume to fill, it is fatally weak. It is slow and ponderous, and well, very expensive.
coversely the indivdual weapons mounted on grave tanks are as deadly as any mounted on the mechs, and well firepower trumps armour. Traveller is not meant to be battletech, and the rules just don't allow the platform to be surviveable.
Also IMTU even grav tanks seem fairly slow and less dagerous to grav-equipped battledress infantry. An Imperial Marine in battle dress carries a solid amount of fire power on his person, and battledress senors and commo link him to orbital artillery, or perhaps on surface MLR batteries. Thus anything that can't be easily dealt with by a marine, simply gets hammered by artillery.
Now granted I favor battledress.
However, any serious palnetary military builds, buys or hires grav tanks and vehicles, because noone has battledress but the marines.
In traveller, depsite the mecha's huge volume to fill, it is fatally weak. It is slow and ponderous, and well, very expensive.
coversely the indivdual weapons mounted on grave tanks are as deadly as any mounted on the mechs, and well firepower trumps armour. Traveller is not meant to be battletech, and the rules just don't allow the platform to be surviveable.
Also IMTU even grav tanks seem fairly slow and less dagerous to grav-equipped battledress infantry. An Imperial Marine in battle dress carries a solid amount of fire power on his person, and battledress senors and commo link him to orbital artillery, or perhaps on surface MLR batteries. Thus anything that can't be easily dealt with by a marine, simply gets hammered by artillery.
Now granted I favor battledress.
However, any serious palnetary military builds, buys or hires grav tanks and vehicles, because noone has battledress but the marines.
batminimus
SOC-3
It would be interesting with the huge vl of a battlemech you could employ starship class weapons and therfore could do a substantial amount of extra damage(5 dice worth) to its tagets and they have an larger area of effect
