Battlestar Galactica and Traveller

[Finarvyn]

I was watching the mini-series of Battlestar Galactica (the new one, not the 1970's version) and was struck by the similarities between BSG and Traveller.

Most scifi uses fance lasers, but BSG and Traveller have a more rustic approach and instead use more bullets.

The notion of ships with jump drive seems very Traveller, and having these ships lobbing nukes at each other does as well.

The style of miliary uniforms and so on just seem like Traveller to me,

I'm not so sure about BSG Vipers; they don't seem very Traveller-like.

Has anyone come up with conversions or a sourcebook for BSG Traveller?

 

[Mickazoid]

IMTU, fighters are a rarity, it's true. To my way of thinking, Classic Traveller small craft are kind of like those 'zodiac' inflatable rafts that Navy Seal guys use... they move small squads to combat, etc., but aren't combat vessels themselves.

Probably because there were so few 'fighter-size' craft in the original rules, but it suited our campaign better (by and large, starships were 'sets', more than 'actors').

 

[Malenfant]

It's funny, I don't see any similarity at all between BSG and Traveller, beyond them both being spacey scifi.

Firefly and Traveller had a lot more obvious similarities, but BSG is predominantly militaristic while Traveller is predominantly trade-oriented. Also, BSG jump drives are instantaneous, whereas Traveller's aren't. Last time I looked people weren't lobbing nukes around in Traveller (in fact IIRC it was outlawed in the 3I?). And Traveller isn't lowtech really - it has projectile weapons because they work as damage-dealers, and you don't see people in BSG attacking people in ships with swords.

I'd say they're quite different

 

[Finarvyn]

Perhaps it's just my impression, since I really don't know much about the rules or official campaign setting yet, but Traveller seems very military to me. Character generation (for example) looks full of military stuff, even though characters typically have left the service prior to the adventure.

When I compare BSG to Star Trek, Star Wars, or many of the other mainstream SciFi settings, BSG seems very primitive by comparrison. Perhaps my SciFi experiences are too limited, or just the "wrong" kind to capture the proper feel.

 

[Finarvyn]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
Firefly and Traveller had a lot more obvious similarities

I could see a game where BSG would be the inspiration for the military aspect of the game with Firefly used as inspiration for the frontier adventures aspect. But I would like to blend them together under Traveller rules.

 

[Finarvyn]

I can see that I should have searched a bit more. There was a thread on BSG a while back...

http://www.travellerrpg.com/cgi-bin/Trav/CotI/Discuss/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000265

 

[Plankowner]

Originally posted by Finarvyn:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Malenfant:
Firefly and Traveller had a lot more obvious similarities

I could see a game where BSG would be the inspiration for the military aspect of the game with Firefly used as inspiration for the frontier adventures aspect. But I would like to blend them together under Traveller rules. </font>[/QUOTE]The nice thing about Traveller is that you could do EXACTLY that if you wanted. Military ships lobbing nukes at each other (High Guard) and unarmed civilian ships trying to scrape by (A1 Free Trader).

 

[kafka47]

Traveller is not 100% trade oriented, only T20 really tried to break the mold that beset Traveller since MT of having a military campaign. Plus, since the incorporation of StarMercs, who says what you trade cannot be military knowledge. One of my main problems with Traveller is that sometimes it does look like BSG too much. I would want a game of frontiers and exploration. It's in the rules but not in the forefront, so I relay upon me telling a good story but sometimes you wish there was more support from the powers that be...

 

[rogermccarthy]

I'd just use an Azhanti High Lightning cruiser and Virus (though with CT or MT rules rather than TNE).

Consider a naval depot out somewhere like Gateway which manages to get a few months warning that Virus is coming, recommissions a battered old AHL, and sets off towards the Spinward Marches with a rag tag fleet of refugees in tow and a particularly nasty vampire fleet in pursuit.

You've got your decks full of fighters, some Suleimans could subsitute for the raptors, your Roslin can be some distant relative of Lucan's etc...

 

[Plankowner]

I actually used the AHL ship for a BSG type of game for a while. The players crewed a Sulieman and were the advance scouts verifying a safe passage.

I did have them going through unknown space though (HUGE misjump) trying to get back to the Imperium. It was a mix of BSG and ST: Voyager. There first stop, they pissed off a Borg like race that sent a fleet to chase them down...

 

[Maladominus]

Originally posted by Finarvyn:
Perhaps it's just my impression, since I really don't know much about the rules or official campaign setting yet, but Traveller seems very military to me. Character generation (for example) looks full of military stuff, even though characters typically have left the service prior to the adventure.

Traveller certainly has enough of that "military flavor", because you have to remember that the game was created by US military veterans (at least Marc Miller was Army veteran, and he made it clear that he served in the US Military as he stated this in the front pages of some of the early Traveller books, such as the cover jacket bio of The Traveller Book), and his buddies in Game Designers Workshop had immense experience in producing militaristic boardgames and they saw themselves as a "DAMNED AWESOME WARGAME PUBLISHING COMPANY" during the late 1970s and early 1980s.

Of course, many wargamers of the mid-1980s (like myself) thought that the Avalon Hill Gaming Company was a far better wargaming company. This is of course opinion on my part.

 

[Malenfant]

Eh, I guess you could do BSG as a High Guard "big ship"...

Problem is that in the new series at least, tiddly things like Raptors and Cylon Raiders have jump capability. I think they're too small in Traveller terms to have jump drives unless rules are tweaked (plus, the range seems to be much longer in BSG)

 

[Ranger]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
Eh, I guess you could do BSG as a High Guard "big ship"...

Problem is that in the new series at least, tiddly things like Raptors and Cylon Raiders have jump capability. I think they're too small in Traveller terms to have jump drives unless rules are tweaked (plus, the range seems to be much longer in BSG)

Well, you could always just resurect jump torpedo technology from the grave and mount it in the smaller ships.

 

[kafka47]

There is another solution, that this is a freaking big ship universe where the smallest of BSG cruisers is the same as a Capital Ship from the OTU which is how I played the ROM Campaign. This increases the size of Raptors & Raiders proportionally just allowing them to fit the jump size requirement. Basestars & Battlestars become Jump Tenders with a defence array of a Super Battleship or Dreadnought in Traveller terms.

The sheer size of the Fleet explains why things are so slow. As with refuelling would take the better part of game play, one could simulate all sorts of tactical battles, as in the revamped TV series, occasional recon on a habitable world but mainly focus on the high tactics of protecting the fleet against smaller craft (basestars or raiders). Truly a game for wargamers, as I was never fond of the Trillion Credit or Imperial Squadron games preferring that players could make decisions that would annaliate entire ships to gain strategic objectives. But, that is because, I am a Storyteller.

 

[FlightCommanderSolitude]

Originally posted by kafka47: There is another solution .... [increase] the size of Raptors & Raiders proportionally just allowing them to fit the jump size requirement.

That seems to do a lot of violence to the notion of Raptors, Raiders, Vipers and other small craft, in that they aren't really small craft any more. It seems a far better solution would be to just say, "These craft can jump."

 

[rogermccarthy]

So what happens if you just drop the 100 ton jump-limit from High Guard?

(and the 20 ton minimum bridge as well).

As the drives are all percentage of hull size presumably you could have:

TL-15 VIPER

Bridge 2%
M-5 14%
J-3 4%
PP-5 5%
J-fuel 30%
PP-fuel 5%

TOTAL 60%

So if we say a Viper is 20 tons that leaves 8 tons for the non-percentage bits.

3 tons gives you the computer-3 you need for the jump, one ton a hardpoint and 2 tons a half-stateroom.

Of course if you're pure BSG then Jumps are instantantaneous, you don't need the stateroom and can replace it with a half-ton acceleration couch.

Reduce the maneuver drive and power plant more and you could concievably fit the whole jump-3 capable Viper package into a 10 ton hull (any idea what a Viper is supposed to displace?).

Or have I missed something important?

 

[Ranger]

Originally posted by alte:
So what happens if you just drop the 100 ton jump-limit from High Guard?

(and the 20 ton minimum bridge as well).

As the drives are all percentage of hull size presumably you could have:

TL-15 VIPER

Bridge 2%
M-5 14%
J-3 4%
PP-5 5%
J-fuel 30%
PP-fuel 5%

TOTAL 60%

So if we say a Viper is 20 tons that leaves 8 tons for the non-percentage bits.

3 tons gives you the computer-3 you need for the jump, one ton a hardpoint and 2 tons a half-stateroom.

Of course if you're pure BSG then Jumps are instantantaneous, you don't need the stateroom and can replace it with a half-ton acceleration couch.

Reduce the maneuver drive and power plant more and you could concievably fit the whole jump-3 capable Viper package into a 10 ton hull (any idea what a Viper is supposed to displace?).

Or have I missed something important?

I'd say it's about the size of a Classic Traveller 10 dTon figher.

The problem is J fule. Vipers and Raptors need enough to jump back from their mission too.

My suggestion is just drop the fule requirements for Jump to make it easier.

It's a significant modificaiton to Traveller, but the entire campaign dynamic is different, so changing the rules to fit the setting shouldn't be too big a deal. It's going to basically be an in service campaign. No one is going to be buying their own ship and free trading.

 

[Border Reiver]

Try TNE. It allows for sub-100 dton vessels. And FF&S has many other alternatives to jump drives.

 

[rogermccarthy]

Mis-added: with 8 tons to spare on a 20 ton Viper you could fit in a whole 4 ton stateroomn if you wanted along with the computer and turret.

Must admit I do like the idea of micro-starships if one could only deal with the outsize computer problem - however making it also percentage based would lead to an AHL genuinely having a computer the size of a house.

So would having Jump shuttles and fighters make things trend toward a small-ship universe - forty 10-ton fghters with a triple missile turrets suddenly sound a lot better investment than one 400-ton Gazelle with much lower firepower if they can achieve the same strategic mobility.

Still some economic logic in having bigger cargo ships (mainly based on crew savings) but I suspect jump shuttles would take over a lot of the passenger trade.

 

[rogermccarthy]

Fuel is something of a mystery in BSG - do they use fusion reactors at all? - I got the impression that they are actually using handwavium power plants which don't need vast quantities of fuel at all but where the handwavioum does run out occcasionally and causes major re-supply problems.

Drop the jump-fuel requirement altogether and every ship can be M-6 and J-6 (in fact why stop there?)