Base Attack Bonus (BaB) Progression

[cmdrx]

Looking at the T20 Lite draft, it seems as if the Merchant class is very combat weak. The Merchant gets +1 to BaB every 4 levels. When compaired to the D&D Wizard (+1BaB/2lvs)
and even Cthulhu's 'Defence Option' (+1BaB/3lvs) this seems abysmal.

I understand that T20 combat is a bit different and more lethal,(I have done a few test scenarios) but I was wondering how the progressions for other classes in T20 work out. Do other more combatant classes have a faster progression, and do they get extra attacks at high levels? Forex, do Imperial Marines get +1BaB per level like the D&D Fighter? If so that would make them a true combat monster compaired to the Merchant!

Just curious.

 

[DrSkull]

From the playtest draft I used most, it was:

Barbarian, Marine and Mercenary: +1 per level just like D&D fighters

Academic, Professional, Merchant: 1 per 4 (worse than any D&D class)

Traveller, Navy, Belter, Noble: +0, +1,+1, +2,+2, etc. (like D&D wizards)

Army, Rogue, Scout +0,+1,+2,+3,+3,+4,+5, (like D&D Clerics/Rogues)

I may have missed one, but you get the idea. Part of this will be balanced out in vehicle combat, since vehicle mounted weaponry uses Gunnery Skill instead of BAB, and Marines, Mercenaries and Barbarians have crappy skill points.

 

[cmdrx]

Thanks for the Info. Looks like I was right to assume that the most combatant classes (Marine, Barbarian, etc...) would be similar to the Fighter class. While 'pencil pusher' types. (Academic, Merchant, Bureaucrat) most likely never been in a true combat stiuation, thus the (very) low BaB . When you say they get crap for skills, are the 'combat heavy' classes in T20 like the Fighter in D&D where they get good combat ability and lots of feats but hardly any skill points (2+Int)?

 

[DrSkull]

Yeah the Bars, Mercs and Marines get 2 +INT for skills, the other classes get 4,6 or 8 skill points per level.

Skills are vastly more important in running a D20 Traveller game than they are in a D&D game.

 

[MegaCredit]

Academic, Professional, Merchant: 1 per 4 (worse than any D&D class)
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This variance seems a little extreme as Combat Bonuses are balanced against certain types of feats.

So far everything about T20 seems superior to d20 modern. This one on the other hand seems a little unbalanced. Skills are very important, but fighting can be fun!

I believe it will very advantageous to multiclass based on what I have read thus far.

 

[cmdrx]

I was looking at the Scout class and compairing it with the merchant. The Scout gets a better attack but less skills than the merchant, but it seems they get the same number of feats and at the same levels as the Merchant. I am wondering how the feats work for say Mercenaries and Marines. So far I have been assuming Mercenary types get feats like a fighter (1 per 2lv) but looking at the Merchant and Scout it doesn't look like a easy formula to figure out (Looks like it jumps around a bit). With feats being required to do certain things (Drive a car, Fly a ship, etc...) these would be as important as skills, if not more so, in T20 it seems.

 

[MegaCredit]

Originally posted by cmdrx:
With feats being required to do certain things (Drive a car, Fly a ship, etc...) these would be as important as skills, if not more so, in T20 it seems.

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Good observation. I agree entirely. That is why multiclassing after mustering out seems to be in order.

 

[gardclan]

I've noticed that T20 classes don't have the usual class level benefits that are common to the 3E classes. For example, under D&D core rules, a Monk gets the deflect arrows feat at level 2, and purity of body at level 5. There have been no such abilities listed by level for T20.

However, the class specific feats do seem to be available to the character in any order desired by virtue of taking them as feats. For example: instead of a merchant getting calculating eye at level 4, it is available as a feat any time the character has a feat slot open.

 

[tjoneslo]

It's deliberate. It allows characters (and NPCs) to be more individualistic while still working with the D20 class/level.

Once suggestion that came up during the playtest was to drop the entire BAB for each class and instead have a "Combat Bonus" either for all combat skills (weapons you have the feats for) or have each proficiency have a corresponding skill (like the vehicle feats/piloting skill). It was dropped in favor of more D20 compatability. I would like to see if someone can make such a system work however.

 

[GypsyComet]

to address the other observation, yes, multi-classing is not only a good idea, it's the norm, and why most of the Service classes are only available under specific circumstances...

 

[hunter]

There is also the Martial Training feat which allows you to add +1 BAB every 4 character levels. This feat is not open to Barbarians, Mercenaries, or Marines as they are already considered to have it (i.e. they already have a max BAB of +20). There are a few prerequisites, but nothing too major.

Hunter

 

[justacaveman]

I think many PC's will have a higher than average Dexterity, and are going to have combat bonuses. There are also quite a few feats that enhance fighting abilities. If you have too good a BAB for non-combat characters, there won't be any reason to have that ex-marine along with you. While the desk bound merchant is caught flatfooted by the ambush, he's going to be shooting and charging the attackers. Of course that merchant could have started off as a marine, and have a couple of levels as marine under his belt (and thus a higher BAB).

 

[aramis]

Originally posted by MegaCredit:
Academic, Professional, Merchant: 1 per 4 (worse than any D&D class)
_____________________________________

This variance seems a little extreme as Combat Bonuses are balanced against certain types of feats.

So far everything about T20 seems superior to d20 modern. This one on the other hand seems a little unbalanced. Skills are very important, but fighting can be fun!

I believe it will very advantageous to multiclass based on what I have read thus far.

two things: One, we (or at least I and a few other playtesters) complained, explained the compatability issues, whined, groaned, and even groveled to get the merchant and academics UP to a 0.25*level BAB. Hunter was dead set on totally combat inept academics and professionals. He eventually saw some of the light, and in addition to raising the BAB to a 0.25/lvl for the affected classes, got a consolation prize for "Compatability" mongers.

that prize: There is a feat which (if it remains in the final) allows improving the BAB of anybody below a 1*level BAB.

It was a good compromise. You can have a merchant or academic which equals the CR 1 Wizard, the CR 2 Academic and Professionals, but as can be argued, you can also have some who can't finght their way out of a wet paper sack. You can also have scouts who were abviously on the spec ops teams.

 

[hunter]

Originally posted by Aramis:

Originally posted by MegaCredit:
[qb]that prize: There is a feat which (if it remains in the final) allows improving the BAB of anybody below a 1*level BAB.

It was a good compromise. You can have a merchant or academic which equals the CR 1 Wizard, the CR 2 Academic and Professionals, but as can be argued, you can also have some who can't finght their way out of a wet paper sack. You can also have scouts who were abviously on the spec ops teams.

That would be the Martial Training feat I mentioned above. I agree that is was a good compromise. I still like that certain classes are definately NOT combat focused (i.e. a max +5 BAB), but if you want the somewhat combat capable academic you can get it with the Martial Training feat. Of course you can always multiclass into a more combat capable class which was my original argument for keep it low to begin with. All-in-all it turned out to be a very good addition.

The debate on this one was a bit of a humdinger! But that's what the playtest was for, and I think the playtesters did a great job of helping to hammer out the kinks and suggest new ideas. Aramis was definately one of those leading the way. We butted heads more than a few times, but the game wouldn't be as good as I think it is without his help and the help of everyone else involved.

Hunter