Atlas of the Imperium

[RainOfSteel]

Vote on the astrographic state of Charted Space.

1) I'd like to see new Atlas of the Imperium (and new Atlases of everywhere else, too), with all-reworked UWPs, destroying old canon and revising as necessary to whatever unlimited extent is required to remove the "craziness" from the existing world data.

2) I think the existing random UWPs, no matter how varied, are a challenge to create interesting explanations of how things got to be the way they are. I'd buy a new Atlas of the Imperium if it contained existing published UWPs.

3) I'd buy a new Atlas of the Imperium just becuase it was new!

4) I've got all the data I need from existing online and/or print sources (and I'm probably not ever going to get to it all anyway), and I'm probably not going to buy a new Atlas of the Imperium.

5) I don't know wether I'd buy a new Atlas of the Imperium, I might or might not, depending on many possible factors.

 

[MR TEK]

At this time, only 6 people have taken the poll, so the results are not signific yet, but they are "interesting" for what they suggest about cannon UWPs.

I will not spill the beans this eary on, but it does suggest that the arguments on the boards, are reflected by the votes so far.

My CR.02

Mr Tek

 

[daryen]

I said this elsewhere; I will say it again:

I would love to see a new Atlas of the Imperium with data that makes sense, keeping both the spirit of canon, but also taking into account modern understanding of planetology.

That said, it would be an incredibly large job to undertake. The chances of it being done well are fairly minimal, as no one with the authority to do it has anywhere near the time.

So, since a broken "fix" would probably make things worse than they already are, and even a success would be problematic because of sacred cows that have been made into hamburger, I would prefer this to not be done.

Instead of even attempting this colossal mess, I would like to see other efforts worked on.

 

[RainOfSteel]

Then let "authority" delegate the task to someone who is capable, willing, and available. (No, I am not suggesting me.)

I think we need a completely new World Building book, taking into account, as was stated, all or most of what's now known.

 

[Wayne]

I would like a new atlas the covers ALL of charted/know space but done like the first atlas. Inclued in the Atlas an updated expanded system generator/world builder handbook so GMs can flesh out the bare bones maps. And have the sector maps done in hex, NOT dot maps.

That way, we all know where the world are (and the names of important/high pop world) but the rest can become an IMTU thing.

 

[RainOfSteel]

All of Charted Space would be too big for one Atlas, and tossing in the World Building stuff would also make it too big.

I'd want multiple Atlases: Zhondane, Vargr, K'Kree, Hiver, Aslan, Imperial, and Solamani; and maybe four Perihpery Atlas books covering Sectors just outside Charted Space to give us elbow room for more exploration (one for each direction, Rimward, etc.). If arranged correctly, that should about cover most all of it.

Reworked and more reasonable UWPs (including revising all other canon material necessary) would be the most desireable, but I will settle for the way it was done originally, just to get it done at all.

A new latest and greatest World Building book would probably have to be a separate product.

 

[Elliot]

A world building book that followed modern understanding would be a great addition to T20 - maybe your wish will come true!!!

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by Elliot:
A world building book that followed modern understanding would be a great addition to T20 - maybe your wish will come true!!!

It exists. It's called "GURPS Traveller: First In"

Well, OK, it doesn't churn out UWPs, which I suspect is what people want - but it's pretty good for everything else. I'm working on something (on and off) that might do the trick, but real life has got in the way of me looking at it much lately as usual.

As for the poll question... Well, if you're going to have an Atlas of the Imperium then for canon's sake I'd rather it included every single mainworld and all the stellar data, generated realistically (which of course won't happen unless a realistic UWP generation system is created).

But from a general gaming POV, I wouldn't like the whole of Charted Space defined down to the last mainworld - that makes the worldbuilding aspect of making your own sectors pretty useless.

I very strongly believe that trying to make sense of existing UWPs (especially with the old stellar data thrown in) is a largely futile, generally frustrating, and often impossible task. I don't believe it stimulates creativity at all, and what's more it creates a universe that is full of "exceptions" (because you have to make most planets special to make them work at all), not "rules".

 

[plop101]

Wolfman writes:

I would like a new atlas the covers ALL of charted/know space but done like the first atlas. Inclued in the Atlas an updated expanded system generator/world builder handbook so GMs can flesh out the bare bones maps. And have the sector maps done in hex, NOT dot maps.

That way, we all know where the world are (and the names of important/high pop world) but the rest can become an IMTU thing.

I want to see that Atlas come out.

Also, I would'nt mind seeing the frontier spinward of the Marches opened up for exploration a little bit. As it is now, its difficult if not impossible for a Type S Scout to go real far in that direction without running into rifts, Aslan or Zho's at some point in time.

 

[vutpakdi]

I don't think that a new Atlas of the Imperium detailing all or even a quarter of the worlds of the Imperium is a worthwhile effort. Hey, sure, on a theoretical level, being able to look up any old system in the Imperium and see that the data makes sense would be a nice thing.

But, seriously, how useful would such a product be? How worthwhile would it be to have someone or a group of people spend the time required to do generate maps, generate UWPs, check the data for sensibility, and then recheck the adjusted data to make sure that the human tendency to unconciously be poor randomizers?

And, how much of such a product would you, as a Referee or player, really, really use? The Imperium is immense. Even an Arrival Vengeance type adventure is going to hit an amazingly small number of worlds out of the total number of worlds.

I'd much rather see QLI spend its time and money working on products that are generally applicable/useful to more people.

Ron

 

[RainOfSteel]

Such a product would be enormously useful to me in *so* many ways. Regardless of whether it contained new and reasonable UWPs or old-style anything-goes UWPs, a finished statement would a huge accomplishment.


Something that is not generally applicable to most individual adventures instead may have overarching applicability to milieu construction/world-building.

I create my settings from base information, building up. My adventures come from the gestalt of information created thus. I may grab ideas out of published adventures, but there are too many who read them ahead of time, not to be muchkin, but just because they read gaming materials voraciously, like me.

I have always been one to buy sourcebook after sourcebook while leaving adventures sitting on the shelves.

 

[Commander Drax]

Personally I dont have a problem with the UWP's as presented in the original atlas of the Imperium. I find them quite inspiring, giving me plenty of ideas as to how that world arrived with its present UWP. I personally feel that any changes to the system with regards to an updated view of planetology or starsystem formations, will make for blander starsystems as a whole. Its common sense to point out that given what we know today about the formation of solar systems and planetology, that 99.9% of naturally occuring worlds anywhere in the universe would be extremely inhospitable. Whilst this is realistic it can also take some of the fun away from the genre and restrict adventuring possiblilites to life in a Vacc-Suit, or settlements under Biodomes, or tunneled into rock or indeed an abundance of boring orbital settlements. A fundamental tradition of traveller is that the universe naturally spawns life, and that most worlds have some life, provided they are within the habitable zobe of their parent star etc. The exploration and interaction of characters with these alien worlds is what makes traveller fun...

 

[Flynn]

Hey, Guys,

Are we talking about the same Atlas of the Imperium, the one that shows star maps by sector, with only general indications of the presence of water, starport type, the presence of bases and the presence of Pop 8+ worlds by the fact that they actually have names? Not a lot of UWP data in that. (None actually.)

I thought the first Traveller product intended to deliver UWPs for more than a sector or two was "First Survey" for T4. That was the book with the bad algorithm for generating some of the social stats.

I know that many of the files for sectors can be found online, but for those without the electronic presence to find them on the Missouri Archives or CORE, what-have-you, a product like this would be helpful. Still, I would rather see QLI work on other projects rather than reprint UWPs. (Now, if they went the route of DGP, and gave some incredible background information on each sector, that would be cool. I'd buy that.)

My two creds, for what it's worth,
Flynn

 

[Wayne]

Flynn said

Are we talking about the same Atlas of the Imperium, the one that shows star maps by sector, with only general indications of the presence of water, starport type, the presence of bases and the presence of Pop 8+ worlds by the fact that they actually have names? Not a lot of UWP data in that. (None actually.)

That is the one I was talking about when I suggested

I would like a new atlas the covers ALL of charted/know space but done like the first atlas. Inclued in the Atlas an updated expanded system generator/world builder handbook so GMs can flesh out the bare bones maps. And have the sector maps done in hex,

I still think this would be a good thing. A common set of maps for everyone, but VERY lite on details. This give the GM a lot of working room.

 

[mtgeiger]

There is a website that has the atlas of the Imperium including the world and system data. all are in PDF format and it includes the map of the first survey. Go to http://www.maps.travellercentral.com and it will help your game considerably.

 

[mtgeiger]

Correction, its http://maps.travellercentral.com.

 

[Psion]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Elliot:
A world building book that followed modern understanding would be a great addition to T20 - maybe your wish will come true!!!

It exists. It's called "GURPS Traveller: First In"

Well, OK, it doesn't churn out UWPs, which I suspect is what people want
</font>[/QUOTE]One of the two biggest failings of GURPS Traveller, IMO. I recently subscribed to JTAS, and I never really realized how convenient a tool UWPs were in helping digest lots of data and make adventures portable.

I very strongly believe that trying to make sense of existing UWPs (especially with the old stellar data thrown in) is a largely futile, generally frustrating, and often impossible task. I don't believe it stimulates creativity at all,

There's no think about it. For you it may not. For me, it does (and others).

I would confess there's a limit to what you can justify. Antares comes to mind. But the problem there is the stellar data doesn't match the UWP, not the UWP itself. But I thinks its fair to say if I was running Antares IMTU, I wouldn't use it as written.

Of course, we just had this thread. I just thought I'd refresh it.

 

[Malenfant]

I would confess there's a limit to what you can justify. Antares comes to mind. But the problem there is the stellar data doesn't match the UWP, not the UWP itself. But I thinks its fair to say if I was running Antares IMTU, I wouldn't use it as written.

If you look on JTAS - on the IMTU board I think - you should be able to find how I got the Antares UWP to work. Just look for threads that start with [Antares]). My explanation wouldn't work for every odd star that shouldn't have planets, but it's not too unreasonable either.

 

[Psion]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
If you look on JTAS - on the IMTU board I think - you should be able to find how I got the Antares UWP to work. Just look for threads that start with [Antares]). My explanation wouldn't work for every odd star that shouldn't have planets, but it's not too unreasonable either.

Actually, if you look back in the UWP thread, I think we discussed it as well. And I think I came to the conclusion that it would STILL be a very young world, probably too young for the life and atmosphere attributed it...

Since I am not actually running Antares sector in my game, I am sort of going to just ignore it... and put your solution in my back pocket for some planet around a large star in Gateway domain. Hopefully one with conditions less optimal than Antares for my comfort of mind.

 

[Malenfant]

yeah, it still has to be terraformed to work. But at least it can be there