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Aslan claws... something that has bothered me for 20 years

No sir,
forest dwelling apes, monkeys, and lemurs all have a more human style of hand as do racoons and possums. forest dwelling cats such as the jaguar and occelot also do not have the Aslan style hand but a more human style of hand/paw which is 4 fingers and a thumb all with claws. the dewclaw is about 1/4 the way up the forarm and contains no bones or claw. just checked my cat sneaky btw and boy is he unamused.

The Aslan hand is not very evolutionarily sound of a design, made odd for the sake of being alien not because it would or could actually have been usefull to the poor creature. by terran standards a pouncer has to have a way of gripping and keeping a grip on its pray either with tooth or claw, look at the lion or tiger and how they hunt and kill, the proto aslan with its stabber would not be able to grasp its prey even if it did land a lethal stab, a grazer <deer> can run many miles before it would bleed out and the proto aslan might lose the scent or have the meal hijacked.
basically what I am saying is if you dont see it in one form or another here on earth chance are it would not evolve on a earth type world.

in short the aslan claw though neat is unworkable and would have been an evolutionary dead end.

of course thats just my opinion.
 
No sir,
forest dwelling apes, monkeys, and lemurs all have a more human style of hand as do racoons and possums. forest dwelling cats such as the jaguar and occelot also do not have the Aslan style hand but a more human style of hand/paw which is 4 fingers and a thumb all with claws. the dewclaw is about 1/4 the way up the forarm and contains no bones or claw. just checked my cat sneaky btw and boy is he unamused.

The Aslan hand is not very evolutionarily sound of a design, made odd for the sake of being alien not because it would or could actually have been usefull to the poor creature. by terran standards a pouncer has to have a way of gripping and keeping a grip on its pray either with tooth or claw, look at the lion or tiger and how they hunt and kill, the proto aslan with its stabber would not be able to grasp its prey even if it did land a lethal stab, a grazer <deer> can run many miles before it would bleed out and the proto aslan might lose the scent or have the meal hijacked.
basically what I am saying is if you dont see it in one form or another here on earth chance are it would not evolve on a earth type world.

in short the aslan claw though neat is unworkable and would have been an evolutionary dead end.

of course thats just my opinion.
 
The Aslan claw arrangement mirrors that of raptors on earth... one central thumb, three opposed fingers... identical to eagles, hawks, falcons.envision the thumb coming more from the wrist, and the fingers having the same number of joints from the wrist... it's not a stabber.

What it does is have the small tip-claws on the fingers draw one way, and the "dewclaw" draws the opposite way. An aslan could easily fish with such an arrangement, or snatch small game in a lethal cross-talon grab.

Which, BTW, the dewclaw folding, IMO, is because it is attached to the underside of the thumb at the mid-length joint; the socket is along the inner half. It folds to allow accurate manipulations.

for a clearer view of how I see it...
home.gci.net/~aramis/AslanHand.pdf
you'll notice the notches for the tendons... I figure the dewclaw has very little muscular strength, but is actually mostly ligamented in place, with enough to open or close it... the end joint of the thumb actually provides the strength...

A downswing gets only the tip-claws. An upswing gets just the dwclaw, and may even include a punch as well... a grab gets all four claws, and digs in. Think about the poor rodent grabbed this way.
 
The Aslan claw arrangement mirrors that of raptors on earth... one central thumb, three opposed fingers... identical to eagles, hawks, falcons.envision the thumb coming more from the wrist, and the fingers having the same number of joints from the wrist... it's not a stabber.

What it does is have the small tip-claws on the fingers draw one way, and the "dewclaw" draws the opposite way. An aslan could easily fish with such an arrangement, or snatch small game in a lethal cross-talon grab.

Which, BTW, the dewclaw folding, IMO, is because it is attached to the underside of the thumb at the mid-length joint; the socket is along the inner half. It folds to allow accurate manipulations.

for a clearer view of how I see it...
home.gci.net/~aramis/AslanHand.pdf
you'll notice the notches for the tendons... I figure the dewclaw has very little muscular strength, but is actually mostly ligamented in place, with enough to open or close it... the end joint of the thumb actually provides the strength...

A downswing gets only the tip-claws. An upswing gets just the dwclaw, and may even include a punch as well... a grab gets all four claws, and digs in. Think about the poor rodent grabbed this way.
 
Originally posted by Jamus:
Aramis..
love the pic but still dont see that style of hand on a feline type pouncer.
Click to expand...
But I'm pretty sure the Aslan alien modules all mention that they are NOT feline, that was just a human centric lable from the time of first contact. Aslan are a true race iirc and not some Grandfather uplift.
 
Originally posted by Jamus:
Aramis..
love the pic but still dont see that style of hand on a feline type pouncer.
Click to expand...
But I'm pretty sure the Aslan alien modules all mention that they are NOT feline, that was just a human centric lable from the time of first contact. Aslan are a true race iirc and not some Grandfather uplift.
 
Originally posted by Jamus:
If it looks like a cat, hunts like a cat, and meows like a cat its a cat.
Click to expand...
Unless it's a weasel. or a mechanical.

If you've ever read S&A or AM1, you'd know that the aslan not only aren't cats, they're closer to hyenas or dogs. Hyenas that just happen to look like cats. In the same manner that hyenas look like dogs, koalas and pandas both look ursine.

Now, certain comments have lead to unoficial claims of excessive aslani lesbianism, due in part to rumours of a hyena-like false penis on the females.

Unlike cats, aslan are said to have been PACK-POUNCERS, cooperatively hunting, and with males being predominant hunters. He. Completely UNLIKE cats.

Traveller's aliens, at least during the CT and MT run, were portrayed in print as far more than the "Chesey Man In Suit" aliens of other games of its day. Complete with 4 major races with different digit counts and layouts... the aslan 4-digited talon-like hand, the K'Kree 4 fingers around the hoof, the hiver starfish, the hand of the droyne, again.

The major conceptual problem is that you have to realize they ARE NOT CATS, and they don't have their fingers in line with the radius and ulna, but essentially perpendicular... for grabbing and catching small prey, and locking on to limbs of large prey.

On the foot, the dewclaw and thumb have evolved away.... or maybe they haven't... heheh...the foldable dewclaw protects the tip... and a talon means one can climb trees better... opposability is a good thing... talons (central opposition of the toes) are exctremely common in birds, not unkown in reptiles, and very effective for limbholding, hunting, and fishing.
 
Originally posted by Jamus:
If it looks like a cat, hunts like a cat, and meows like a cat its a cat.
Click to expand...
Unless it's a weasel. or a mechanical.

If you've ever read S&A or AM1, you'd know that the aslan not only aren't cats, they're closer to hyenas or dogs. Hyenas that just happen to look like cats. In the same manner that hyenas look like dogs, koalas and pandas both look ursine.

Now, certain comments have lead to unoficial claims of excessive aslani lesbianism, due in part to rumours of a hyena-like false penis on the females.

Unlike cats, aslan are said to have been PACK-POUNCERS, cooperatively hunting, and with males being predominant hunters. He. Completely UNLIKE cats.

Traveller's aliens, at least during the CT and MT run, were portrayed in print as far more than the "Chesey Man In Suit" aliens of other games of its day. Complete with 4 major races with different digit counts and layouts... the aslan 4-digited talon-like hand, the K'Kree 4 fingers around the hoof, the hiver starfish, the hand of the droyne, again.

The major conceptual problem is that you have to realize they ARE NOT CATS, and they don't have their fingers in line with the radius and ulna, but essentially perpendicular... for grabbing and catching small prey, and locking on to limbs of large prey.

On the foot, the dewclaw and thumb have evolved away.... or maybe they haven't... heheh...the foldable dewclaw protects the tip... and a talon means one can climb trees better... opposability is a good thing... talons (central opposition of the toes) are exctremely common in birds, not unkown in reptiles, and very effective for limbholding, hunting, and fishing.
 
were portrayed in print as far more than the "Chesey Man In Suit" aliens of other games of its day. Complete with 4 major races with different digit counts and layouts... the aslan 4-digited talon-like hand, the K'Kree 4 fingers around the hoof, the hiver starfish, the hand of the droyne, again.
Click to expand...
And that is the problem I have with the aslans claws, in the writers desire to make the creature alien he made it improbable. the Aslan claw/hand would have been an evolutionary dead end. can you name one mammalian pouncer that has chicken feet for hands? how did proto-aslan run without digging the claw into the pad at the bottom of its feet? the different for the sake of difference take on CT aliens is flawed, it is not hands or hair or what not that makes the Aslan different then a man in a fur coat..it is cultural. I use and like the Aslan culural set up. I do not use the hand as I know it could not be. millions of years of evolution have shown us what life on a earth type planet is capable of...Jack knife claws on chicken feet are not one of those things.
 
were portrayed in print as far more than the "Chesey Man In Suit" aliens of other games of its day. Complete with 4 major races with different digit counts and layouts... the aslan 4-digited talon-like hand, the K'Kree 4 fingers around the hoof, the hiver starfish, the hand of the droyne, again.
Click to expand...
And that is the problem I have with the aslans claws, in the writers desire to make the creature alien he made it improbable. the Aslan claw/hand would have been an evolutionary dead end. can you name one mammalian pouncer that has chicken feet for hands? how did proto-aslan run without digging the claw into the pad at the bottom of its feet? the different for the sake of difference take on CT aliens is flawed, it is not hands or hair or what not that makes the Aslan different then a man in a fur coat..it is cultural. I use and like the Aslan culural set up. I do not use the hand as I know it could not be. millions of years of evolution have shown us what life on a earth type planet is capable of...Jack knife claws on chicken feet are not one of those things.
 
Millions of years of evolution have shown us one of a variety of POSSIBLE combinations.

And, while not a mammal, all the great running birds have a rearward claw... some atrophied, some elevated.

Roosters have elevated... and become ritual mating weapons.

And platapi males have a sideways poisonous claw.

Few creatures feet are as dexterous as the 3vs1 of the parrot.

Also, note that the folding dewclaw is not of need an adaptation from before being upright. Current fossile record indicate less braincase volume and brain surface convolution in the first uprights than many large primates which are not upright; Australopithicus Afarensis was likely less bright than a chimp or banobo... and chimps are casual pouncer/chaser/intimidators despite a lack of natural weapons. Baboons maintain dexterous hands despite using them as movement limbs, even with the thumbs being in awkward positions...

I envision the proto-aslan as being semi-upright arboreal non-sentients... they descended from the trees... and like humans, the lower extremity deformed, while the upper extremeity maintained it's tree-dwelling smart-omnivore-hunter manipulator... and being right on the border between pouncer and trapper... hiding in trees, and snagging small prey by snatching them. Intermediate anscestors switched to more of a chasing across the plains strategy... so the foot loses a rear toe... the dewclaw was a pre-proto-sentient adaptation for manipulating smaller prey, like bugs, by arboreal non-brachiating aslanates (using the term to equate to primates)...

I have no problem with the central thumb. I can see its advantages for snagging prey. The problem is that for most of the mamalian species on earth an opposable digit is not present AT ALL. so those that have it have usually adapted a side finger to be a thumb; cats are WIERD in having the dewclaw; for the entire feline group the dewclaw seems to be primaily for hunting, and occasionally for climbing. Many rodents use a well padded forepaw in stead of or in addition to a thumb for opposing digits.
 
Millions of years of evolution have shown us one of a variety of POSSIBLE combinations.

And, while not a mammal, all the great running birds have a rearward claw... some atrophied, some elevated.

Roosters have elevated... and become ritual mating weapons.

And platapi males have a sideways poisonous claw.

Few creatures feet are as dexterous as the 3vs1 of the parrot.

Also, note that the folding dewclaw is not of need an adaptation from before being upright. Current fossile record indicate less braincase volume and brain surface convolution in the first uprights than many large primates which are not upright; Australopithicus Afarensis was likely less bright than a chimp or banobo... and chimps are casual pouncer/chaser/intimidators despite a lack of natural weapons. Baboons maintain dexterous hands despite using them as movement limbs, even with the thumbs being in awkward positions...

I envision the proto-aslan as being semi-upright arboreal non-sentients... they descended from the trees... and like humans, the lower extremity deformed, while the upper extremeity maintained it's tree-dwelling smart-omnivore-hunter manipulator... and being right on the border between pouncer and trapper... hiding in trees, and snagging small prey by snatching them. Intermediate anscestors switched to more of a chasing across the plains strategy... so the foot loses a rear toe... the dewclaw was a pre-proto-sentient adaptation for manipulating smaller prey, like bugs, by arboreal non-brachiating aslanates (using the term to equate to primates)...

I have no problem with the central thumb. I can see its advantages for snagging prey. The problem is that for most of the mamalian species on earth an opposable digit is not present AT ALL. so those that have it have usually adapted a side finger to be a thumb; cats are WIERD in having the dewclaw; for the entire feline group the dewclaw seems to be primaily for hunting, and occasionally for climbing. Many rodents use a well padded forepaw in stead of or in addition to a thumb for opposing digits.
 
Aslan.jpg


In the picture we see the aslan do in fact have human style hands though with three fingers and opposeable<sp> thumb, the thumb is not centered behind the fingers but is instead on the side of the hand much as our own... but again the claw placement makes no sence at all...why would any creature evolve such?

Also note that AM1 was produced 4 years after Twilights peak. in twilights peak alsan are depicted with human type hands and feline type claws as I use them IMTU. four years later the hand/claw was changed and I believe it was done for the sake of making the aslan strange and alien when in fact they already were. It was a needless change.

Change for the sake of change is never a good thing. whether it is canon or not the aslan were depicted in the earliest references that I have as lion like carnivorous preditors that dwelled in pride like clans with the females doing all productive work and the males training to increase the clans holdings and defend what they already have from rival males.. if this isnt based on lions I dont know what is.

Aslan are basically Lionine humanoids much as Vagr are canine humanoids. why the sudden need to over turn that is beyond me. another thing that is beyond me is the MT depiction of aslan as merchants. Aslan are a warrior race steeped in pride and honor and I do not believe such a race would be interested in trade...no I think tribute would be more to an Aslan tastes.

In short Aslan started out as cats, they look like cats, they live in cat type social groups, they act like cats, they ARE cats.

:D
 
Aslan.jpg


In the picture we see the aslan do in fact have human style hands though with three fingers and opposeable<sp> thumb, the thumb is not centered behind the fingers but is instead on the side of the hand much as our own... but again the claw placement makes no sence at all...why would any creature evolve such?

Also note that AM1 was produced 4 years after Twilights peak. in twilights peak alsan are depicted with human type hands and feline type claws as I use them IMTU. four years later the hand/claw was changed and I believe it was done for the sake of making the aslan strange and alien when in fact they already were. It was a needless change.

Change for the sake of change is never a good thing. whether it is canon or not the aslan were depicted in the earliest references that I have as lion like carnivorous preditors that dwelled in pride like clans with the females doing all productive work and the males training to increase the clans holdings and defend what they already have from rival males.. if this isnt based on lions I dont know what is.

Aslan are basically Lionine humanoids much as Vagr are canine humanoids. why the sudden need to over turn that is beyond me. another thing that is beyond me is the MT depiction of aslan as merchants. Aslan are a warrior race steeped in pride and honor and I do not believe such a race would be interested in trade...no I think tribute would be more to an Aslan tastes.

In short Aslan started out as cats, they look like cats, they live in cat type social groups, they act like cats, they ARE cats.

:D
 
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