{ARTWORK} More New Artwork
- Thread starter hunter
- Start date
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hunter:
More new artwork from Bryan Gibson has been posted to the Gallery
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Even more WOW, WOW, WOW! I wasn't too keen on Emperor's Arsenal but this stuff is fantastic. Save the Navy guy, in which I always pictured the navy more in tight fitting collars rather than like Sinbad portayed there.
Is all this going to appear in T20?
Just wish there were more realistic women so that I can get my wife into Traveller. Believe or not, she likes the AD&D paintings more.
More new artwork from Bryan Gibson has been posted to the Gallery
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Even more WOW, WOW, WOW! I wasn't too keen on Emperor's Arsenal but this stuff is fantastic. Save the Navy guy, in which I always pictured the navy more in tight fitting collars rather than like Sinbad portayed there.
Is all this going to appear in T20?
Just wish there were more realistic women so that I can get my wife into Traveller. Believe or not, she likes the AD&D paintings more.
hunter
Ancient - Absent Friend
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Solo:
A greater diversity in races depicted (and I mean the human race) would be nice.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Huh? Currently we have female humans, a human of Asian, and a human of African descent posted. This is an issue I have specified to ALL artists working for us.
Hunter
[This message has been edited by hunter (edited 13 March 2002).]
A greater diversity in races depicted (and I mean the human race) would be nice.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Huh? Currently we have female humans, a human of Asian, and a human of African descent posted. This is an issue I have specified to ALL artists working for us.
Hunter
[This message has been edited by hunter (edited 13 March 2002).]
hunter
Ancient - Absent Friend
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kafka47:
Is all this going to appear in T20?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Most of the artwork is material I have either purchased from an artist's existing body of work, or had commissioned. A few pieces up on the gallery are owned by Bryan Gibson and he is letting us post them here as a favor.
So to answer the question, not all of the material posted will make it into the core T20 book (there will also be new material), but eventually all of it will enter publication at some time down the road.
Hunter
Is all this going to appear in T20?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Most of the artwork is material I have either purchased from an artist's existing body of work, or had commissioned. A few pieces up on the gallery are owned by Bryan Gibson and he is letting us post them here as a favor.
So to answer the question, not all of the material posted will make it into the core T20 book (there will also be new material), but eventually all of it will enter publication at some time down the road.
Hunter
No insult to Bryan Gibson(I certainly couldn't do what he does)but the sights on all of his rifles are too low. If you were to put your cheek on the stock, your eye wouldn't go low enough to see through the sights. He Should take a look at a real scoped rifle, and note the height of the sight as compared to the cheekpiece. As a gunsmith I notice these things.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hunter:
More new artwork from Bryan Gibson has been posted to the Gallery
Artwork Gallery
Hunter<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hunter:
More new artwork from Bryan Gibson has been posted to the Gallery
Artwork Gallery
Hunter<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
bryan gibson
Absent Friend
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beowulf:
No insult to Bryan Gibson(I certainly couldn't do what he does)but the sights on all of his rifles are too low. If you were to put your cheek on the stock, your eye wouldn't go low enough to see through the sights. He Should take a look at a real scoped rifle, and note the height of the sight as compared to the cheekpiece. As a gunsmith I notice these things.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Fair enough... as a veteran of twelve years and a sniper in an air force specs team, I can appreciate your observations, but I don't nessecarily agree.
Firstly, note the gauss weapon, here we have an adjustable cheekpiece, and as to others, you will find that a dead on spot weld is not nessecary- although the data isn't out yet, at the tech levels these weapons appear, the sighting system is typically a holographic setup, witha full array rig ( IR, LI, Thermal, and optical)
The theory isn't that the shooter typically sights as we might ordinarly, but that the sights are setup for an optical relief favoring the " point assault" type of stance, and the eyepiece is less an optic as such as it is a projection lens, adjustable to the shooter. More detail than appears in the descriptions, but this is the theory behind the design, at least.
Your point is taken, though, and I will bear it in mind- i go for as realistic an approach as possible.
No insult to Bryan Gibson(I certainly couldn't do what he does)but the sights on all of his rifles are too low. If you were to put your cheek on the stock, your eye wouldn't go low enough to see through the sights. He Should take a look at a real scoped rifle, and note the height of the sight as compared to the cheekpiece. As a gunsmith I notice these things.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Fair enough... as a veteran of twelve years and a sniper in an air force specs team, I can appreciate your observations, but I don't nessecarily agree.
Firstly, note the gauss weapon, here we have an adjustable cheekpiece, and as to others, you will find that a dead on spot weld is not nessecary- although the data isn't out yet, at the tech levels these weapons appear, the sighting system is typically a holographic setup, witha full array rig ( IR, LI, Thermal, and optical)
The theory isn't that the shooter typically sights as we might ordinarly, but that the sights are setup for an optical relief favoring the " point assault" type of stance, and the eyepiece is less an optic as such as it is a projection lens, adjustable to the shooter. More detail than appears in the descriptions, but this is the theory behind the design, at least.
Your point is taken, though, and I will bear it in mind- i go for as realistic an approach as possible.
bozzutoman
SOC-12
I gotta admit, I'm not too fond of Bryan Gibson's style where organic things are concerned. The BESM thing looks too Anime for my tastes. I guess I just miss DJ Barr's characters from the old Traveller Book. They were always full of personality, with great visual humor.
But the hardware is top notch!
But the hardware is top notch!
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hunter:
Huh? Currently we have female humans, a human of Asian, and a human of African descent posted. This is an issue I have specified to ALL artists working for us.
Hunter
[This message has been edited by hunter (edited 13 March 2002).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hunter, not to be too critical, but I just went and looked at the art samples again looking for the "different" human races. Now maybe it is just the odd mix of samples, but I did not see any Asian and the only one that even came close to an African was the nobel and that was hard to see until I took the time to search for one. Maybe I am being to critical but the majority of Humans I see in the artwork samples are all White Europeans. Even the Navy guy is white in his features, only an odd haircut sets him apart.
As someone of Latin desent I have gotten used to this from Game Books, but it still seems it should be better by now. I hope the samples posted are just not representative of the real mix in the book.
dafrca
Huh? Currently we have female humans, a human of Asian, and a human of African descent posted. This is an issue I have specified to ALL artists working for us.
Hunter
[This message has been edited by hunter (edited 13 March 2002).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hunter, not to be too critical, but I just went and looked at the art samples again looking for the "different" human races. Now maybe it is just the odd mix of samples, but I did not see any Asian and the only one that even came close to an African was the nobel and that was hard to see until I took the time to search for one. Maybe I am being to critical but the majority of Humans I see in the artwork samples are all White Europeans. Even the Navy guy is white in his features, only an odd haircut sets him apart.
As someone of Latin desent I have gotten used to this from Game Books, but it still seems it should be better by now. I hope the samples posted are just not representative of the real mix in the book.
dafrca
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Solo:
A greater diversity in races depicted (and I mean the human race) would be nice.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hunter's answer aside Solo, I agree with you. I am often sad at how most game books seem to have forgotten the other Human races and seem to think the future will be white only. Very sad, but understandable. Artists tend to draw what they are unless asked to do otherwise.
Having been in publishig for quite some time, I can tell you a company has to make a real effort if it wants to have a real diverse artwork representation.
dafrca
A greater diversity in races depicted (and I mean the human race) would be nice.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hunter's answer aside Solo, I agree with you. I am often sad at how most game books seem to have forgotten the other Human races and seem to think the future will be white only. Very sad, but understandable. Artists tend to draw what they are unless asked to do otherwise.
Having been in publishig for quite some time, I can tell you a company has to make a real effort if it wants to have a real diverse artwork representation.
dafrca
hunter
Ancient - Absent Friend
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dafrca:
Hunter, not to be too critical, but I just went and looked at the art samples again looking for the "different" human races. Now maybe it is just the odd mix of samples, but I did not see any Asian and the only one that even came close to an African was the nobel and that was hard to see until I took the time to search for one.
Maybe I am being to critical but the majority of Humans I see in the artwork samples are all White Europeans. Even the Navy guy is white in his features, only an odd haircut sets him apart.
As someone of Latin desent I have gotten used to this from Game Books, but it still seems it should be better by now. I hope the samples posted are just not representative of the real mix in the book.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I do understand what you are trying to say, but what are you expecting, exaggerated racial sterotypes? This is an issue that I want to see addressed in the Traveller material we produce but I would prefer to do this without resorting to all humans of African descent looking like Nubians, and say all of Asian descent with heavily Mongoloid features.
Hunter
Hunter, not to be too critical, but I just went and looked at the art samples again looking for the "different" human races. Now maybe it is just the odd mix of samples, but I did not see any Asian and the only one that even came close to an African was the nobel and that was hard to see until I took the time to search for one.
Maybe I am being to critical but the majority of Humans I see in the artwork samples are all White Europeans. Even the Navy guy is white in his features, only an odd haircut sets him apart.
As someone of Latin desent I have gotten used to this from Game Books, but it still seems it should be better by now. I hope the samples posted are just not representative of the real mix in the book.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I do understand what you are trying to say, but what are you expecting, exaggerated racial sterotypes? This is an issue that I want to see addressed in the Traveller material we produce but I would prefer to do this without resorting to all humans of African descent looking like Nubians, and say all of Asian descent with heavily Mongoloid features.
Hunter
Secrect Cow Level
SOC-12
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bozzutoman:
I gotta admit, I'm not too fond of Bryan Gibson's style where organic things are concerned. The BESM thing looks too Anime for my tastes. I guess I just miss DJ Barr's characters from the old Traveller Book. They were always full of personality, with great visual humor.
But the hardware is top notch!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree. His equipment and vehicles are top notch but his people leave a lot to be desired. They are way too cartoony. I get the impression that he only draws people because he wants to show everyone how all his great equipment is used! Bryan Gibson should illustrate all the weapons, equipment, vehicles, and ships in the game and someone else should do the character illos.
I gotta admit, I'm not too fond of Bryan Gibson's style where organic things are concerned. The BESM thing looks too Anime for my tastes. I guess I just miss DJ Barr's characters from the old Traveller Book. They were always full of personality, with great visual humor.
But the hardware is top notch!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree. His equipment and vehicles are top notch but his people leave a lot to be desired. They are way too cartoony. I get the impression that he only draws people because he wants to show everyone how all his great equipment is used! Bryan Gibson should illustrate all the weapons, equipment, vehicles, and ships in the game and someone else should do the character illos.
I see. If the sights on the laser rifle, assault rifle and smg(for example) are in fact projecting a holographic reticle of some kind above that angled rear surface then it makes perfect sense.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bryan gibson:
Fair enough... as a veteran of twelve years and a sniper in an air force specs team, I can appreciate your observations, but I don't nessecarily agree.
Firstly, note the gauss weapon, here we have an adjustable cheekpiece, and as to others, you will find that a dead on spot weld is not nessecary- although the data isn't out yet, at the tech levels these weapons appear, the sighting system is typically a holographic setup, witha full array rig ( IR, LI, Thermal, and optical)
The theory isn't that the shooter typically sights as we might ordinarly, but that the sights are setup for an optical relief favoring the " point assault" type of stance, and the eyepiece is less an optic as such as it is a projection lens, adjustable to the shooter. More detail than appears in the descriptions, but this is the theory behind the design, at least.
Your point is taken, though, and I will bear it in mind- i go for as realistic an approach as possible.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bryan gibson:
Fair enough... as a veteran of twelve years and a sniper in an air force specs team, I can appreciate your observations, but I don't nessecarily agree.
Firstly, note the gauss weapon, here we have an adjustable cheekpiece, and as to others, you will find that a dead on spot weld is not nessecary- although the data isn't out yet, at the tech levels these weapons appear, the sighting system is typically a holographic setup, witha full array rig ( IR, LI, Thermal, and optical)
The theory isn't that the shooter typically sights as we might ordinarly, but that the sights are setup for an optical relief favoring the " point assault" type of stance, and the eyepiece is less an optic as such as it is a projection lens, adjustable to the shooter. More detail than appears in the descriptions, but this is the theory behind the design, at least.
Your point is taken, though, and I will bear it in mind- i go for as realistic an approach as possible.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's probably already come across but I like Mr. Gibson's work quite a bit. His art looks a lot like how I conceive of the Traveller universe in my head, at least in terms of clothes, weapons, armor and the like. While I will always have a soft spot in my heart for the Keith designed ships, I like his fresh take on some classic designs. As to the diversity issue, I do notice that he draws a lot of women which at least plays against one stereotype. . .
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hunter:
I do understand what you are trying to say, but what are you expecting, exaggerated racial sterotypes? This is an issue that I want to see addressed in the Traveller material we produce but I would prefer to do this without resorting to all humans of African descent looking like Nubians, and say all of Asian descent with heavily Mongoloid features.
Hunter
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Fair enough Hunter, what did I expect? Nothing really. I have found most publishers in the game industry know their customers are mostly white males and so they create artwork designed to be easy for their client base to identify with. That is fair and good business.
What would I like? That is a different question. I would like to see what I see around me every day. I work for a company with more then a thousand people in one building. I see "African-Americans" of many different types, even some who could be Nubians. I see Asians that do not all look like Anime clones but reflect a wide range of features including some who might be from Mongolia. I see Slavic, Indian, South Pacific Islanders, and Arabic peoples. In other words Hunter, I see quite a few racial "types" none of them "stereotypes".
I do not expect you to have just exaggerated racial stereotypes. But I do see a lot of just one exaggerated racial stereotype in the mix of samples. I am sorry if my point of view somehow offended you, that was not my aim at all.
Trust me when I say no lack of racial mix will stop me from buying a product I want. I will buy Traveller d20 when it comes out. I just can't help but hope someday we might produce a product that reflected a human race as mixed as our real one.
dafrca
I do understand what you are trying to say, but what are you expecting, exaggerated racial sterotypes? This is an issue that I want to see addressed in the Traveller material we produce but I would prefer to do this without resorting to all humans of African descent looking like Nubians, and say all of Asian descent with heavily Mongoloid features.
Hunter
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Fair enough Hunter, what did I expect? Nothing really. I have found most publishers in the game industry know their customers are mostly white males and so they create artwork designed to be easy for their client base to identify with. That is fair and good business.
What would I like? That is a different question. I would like to see what I see around me every day. I work for a company with more then a thousand people in one building. I see "African-Americans" of many different types, even some who could be Nubians. I see Asians that do not all look like Anime clones but reflect a wide range of features including some who might be from Mongolia. I see Slavic, Indian, South Pacific Islanders, and Arabic peoples. In other words Hunter, I see quite a few racial "types" none of them "stereotypes".
I do not expect you to have just exaggerated racial stereotypes. But I do see a lot of just one exaggerated racial stereotype in the mix of samples. I am sorry if my point of view somehow offended you, that was not my aim at all.
Trust me when I say no lack of racial mix will stop me from buying a product I want. I will buy Traveller d20 when it comes out. I just can't help but hope someday we might produce a product that reflected a human race as mixed as our real one.
dafrca
hunter
Ancient - Absent Friend
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dafrca:
Fair enough Hunter, what did I expect? Nothing really. I have found most publishers in the game industry know their customers are mostly white males and so they create artwork designed to be easy for their client base to identify with. That is fair and good business.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If you have definate, usable suggestions on how we can better portray them without resorting to stereotypes to ensure that a pic represents a specific ethnic group, I promise we will listen and do our best. Believe it or not I am in total agreement with you on portraying a wider range of human 'types'.
Hunter
[This message has been edited by hunter (edited 14 March 2002).]
Fair enough Hunter, what did I expect? Nothing really. I have found most publishers in the game industry know their customers are mostly white males and so they create artwork designed to be easy for their client base to identify with. That is fair and good business.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If you have definate, usable suggestions on how we can better portray them without resorting to stereotypes to ensure that a pic represents a specific ethnic group, I promise we will listen and do our best. Believe it or not I am in total agreement with you on portraying a wider range of human 'types'.
Hunter
[This message has been edited by hunter (edited 14 March 2002).]
FlightCommanderSolitude
SOC-13
This whole discussion reminds me of Starship Troopers (i think) where the main character returns to Earth at some point in the future when people are bred programmatically, and everybody is gay and vaguely polynesian.
-FCS
-FCS
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FlightCommanderSolitude:
This whole discussion reminds me of Starship Troopers (i think) where the main character returns to Earth at some point in the future when people are bred programmatically, and everybody is gay and vaguely polynesian.
-FCS<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Heh. "Forever War" Joe Haldeman's response (after service in 'Nam) to Heinlien's book. Which Heinlien apparently liked quite well too, but I'm not up for going into all the irony possible here tonight.
William
This whole discussion reminds me of Starship Troopers (i think) where the main character returns to Earth at some point in the future when people are bred programmatically, and everybody is gay and vaguely polynesian.
-FCS<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Heh. "Forever War" Joe Haldeman's response (after service in 'Nam) to Heinlien's book. Which Heinlien apparently liked quite well too, but I'm not up for going into all the irony possible here tonight.
William
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