mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
There are some interesting replies in that lot.
Funny how each forum has its own character...
Funny how each forum has its own character...
Artificially Gestated Humans and STL Colony Ships
- Thread starter Jeff M. Hopper
- Start date
Jeff M. Hopper
SOC-14 1K
OK, the artificial womb idea is out, it'd be too high of a tech level and I wanted to keep the tech level at TL 9 or below. So it'll have to be low berths and sleeper ships. However, this has spawned a new idea.
In the OTU, right prior to the Interstellar Wars, there was a period of rapid expansion into the solar system and several STL colonization attempts. My idea was that for every properly funded STL colony mission, there would be an underfunded and poorly planned mission that had a good chance of failure. Of course, a "bad guy" corporation would be exploiting this market with cheap one-way colony ships that could be afforded by most subculture groups who wanted to leave Earth for whatever reason (the corporation would, historically, have been tried in the World Court after an investigation by UNSCA - but by then, hundreds of these 'getaway special' colony ships would have been launched).
Now, while the ships themselves could only make less than 0.02C maximum speed, that is enough to allow them to reach most worlds in Sol subsector during recorded OTU history. Many will have suffered life support failure and thus will have become 'time capsules' carrying the icons and records of that particular culture/subculture/religious group/whatever for people to find upon recovery of the ship.
The ship design itself has run into a snag. I would like to include a Zubrin Magsail as part of the propulsion system, but while creating rules for it - I have hit a wall. A bit of background, a magsail is a large superconducting loop that creates a lenticular shaped (like a red blood cell) magnetic field which then is pushed by the solar wind (similar to a solar sail, except it relies on the flux of plasma from the sun instead light) to provide thrust. Now, at this point it is pretty straightforward, however a magsail can be used in the vicinity of a world as long as that world has a magnetic field to interact with. This is where I have a problem. The interaction with a planetary magnetic field is pretty complex for maneuvering and I'd like to simplify it to the point where it could be used in a Traveller setting, but I am having trouble simplifying the math to a point where non-gearheads won't run screaming from it. There's also the problem of generating quick-and-dirty rules for world magnetic fields. Any help here would be appreciated. Some good sites about this are here:
http://www.luf.org/wiki/view/Project/MagSail?rev=1.1
http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/Roleplayer/Roleplayer29/MagSails.html
Now, with this in mind and the rules for Archaic Starships from Avenger Enterprises in hand I'm trying to work this.
I've already daydreamed up a commercial.
A wide field of lush green grass flows down a hill with a single tree on top in the background. A young girl, all ribbons and pigtails, skips down the hill towards the camera. As she approaches the camera you see that she is rapidly aging and the grassis browning while the tree's leaves are showing the onset of the seasons. The girl, now an adolescant, stops near the foreground and bends down to pick up a flower. The slow zoom in of the camera shows it is a dandelion that has gone to seed. The camera pans back and we have the adolescant girl, now aged into maturity blowing at the dandelion. The seeds fly off in all directions, tumbling into the sky. The camera follows the path of one, centering upon it with a momentary glimpse of the girl who is now an old woman standing on the hill in the background. The seed morphs, elongating into a heavy-lift booster with its rocket engine going all out into the sky. The camera then zooms in as the engine cuts off and the nose cone / payload shroud opens up and a solar sail unfolds. The camera continues to zoom in until the view reaches inside the ship and stops on a single low berth chamber with a single little girl nestled inside who is identical to the one in the beginning of the commercial. A deep, fatherly overvoice intones, "New worlds await the children of Earth. The seeds of the Earth will be Dandelions." On screen we see the ship leaving Earth orbit, passing the moon and accelerating outward. The is a printed message on the bottom of the screen which reads, "Dandelion. The afforadable colonization ship to ensure the preservation of your ideology."
Gimmee some feedback here fellows. Does it work so far? Any suggestions?
In the OTU, right prior to the Interstellar Wars, there was a period of rapid expansion into the solar system and several STL colonization attempts. My idea was that for every properly funded STL colony mission, there would be an underfunded and poorly planned mission that had a good chance of failure. Of course, a "bad guy" corporation would be exploiting this market with cheap one-way colony ships that could be afforded by most subculture groups who wanted to leave Earth for whatever reason (the corporation would, historically, have been tried in the World Court after an investigation by UNSCA - but by then, hundreds of these 'getaway special' colony ships would have been launched).
Now, while the ships themselves could only make less than 0.02C maximum speed, that is enough to allow them to reach most worlds in Sol subsector during recorded OTU history. Many will have suffered life support failure and thus will have become 'time capsules' carrying the icons and records of that particular culture/subculture/religious group/whatever for people to find upon recovery of the ship.
The ship design itself has run into a snag. I would like to include a Zubrin Magsail as part of the propulsion system, but while creating rules for it - I have hit a wall. A bit of background, a magsail is a large superconducting loop that creates a lenticular shaped (like a red blood cell) magnetic field which then is pushed by the solar wind (similar to a solar sail, except it relies on the flux of plasma from the sun instead light) to provide thrust. Now, at this point it is pretty straightforward, however a magsail can be used in the vicinity of a world as long as that world has a magnetic field to interact with. This is where I have a problem. The interaction with a planetary magnetic field is pretty complex for maneuvering and I'd like to simplify it to the point where it could be used in a Traveller setting, but I am having trouble simplifying the math to a point where non-gearheads won't run screaming from it. There's also the problem of generating quick-and-dirty rules for world magnetic fields. Any help here would be appreciated. Some good sites about this are here:
http://www.luf.org/wiki/view/Project/MagSail?rev=1.1
http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/Roleplayer/Roleplayer29/MagSails.html
Now, with this in mind and the rules for Archaic Starships from Avenger Enterprises in hand I'm trying to work this.
I've already daydreamed up a commercial.
A wide field of lush green grass flows down a hill with a single tree on top in the background. A young girl, all ribbons and pigtails, skips down the hill towards the camera. As she approaches the camera you see that she is rapidly aging and the grassis browning while the tree's leaves are showing the onset of the seasons. The girl, now an adolescant, stops near the foreground and bends down to pick up a flower. The slow zoom in of the camera shows it is a dandelion that has gone to seed. The camera pans back and we have the adolescant girl, now aged into maturity blowing at the dandelion. The seeds fly off in all directions, tumbling into the sky. The camera follows the path of one, centering upon it with a momentary glimpse of the girl who is now an old woman standing on the hill in the background. The seed morphs, elongating into a heavy-lift booster with its rocket engine going all out into the sky. The camera then zooms in as the engine cuts off and the nose cone / payload shroud opens up and a solar sail unfolds. The camera continues to zoom in until the view reaches inside the ship and stops on a single low berth chamber with a single little girl nestled inside who is identical to the one in the beginning of the commercial. A deep, fatherly overvoice intones, "New worlds await the children of Earth. The seeds of the Earth will be Dandelions." On screen we see the ship leaving Earth orbit, passing the moon and accelerating outward. The is a printed message on the bottom of the screen which reads, "Dandelion. The afforadable colonization ship to ensure the preservation of your ideology."
Gimmee some feedback here fellows. Does it work so far? Any suggestions?
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Not a bad idea.
Have you seen:
http://www.ess.washington.edu/Space/propulsion.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-magnetospheric_plasma_propulsion
http://www.niac.usra.edu/files/library/meetings/annual/jun00/372Winglee.pdf
http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/advanced_propulsion_020522-1.html
http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/technovel_magnetic_041217.html
Have you seen:
http://www.ess.washington.edu/Space/propulsion.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-magnetospheric_plasma_propulsion
http://www.niac.usra.edu/files/library/meetings/annual/jun00/372Winglee.pdf
http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/advanced_propulsion_020522-1.html
http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/technovel_magnetic_041217.html
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
As to the complexities of modeling the magnetic sail maneuvering around a planet, could you not simplify and adapt a set of rpg sailing ship rules?
Try to keep it graphical rather than equation based.
Try to keep it graphical rather than equation based.
Jeff M. Hopper
SOC-14 1K
No...I have some reading to do. That M2P2 system looks very interesting. Thanks!
Sifu Blackirish
SOC-14 1K
Great comments, all.
Never heard of the magsail. Is that something that would work IRL?
Another lower-tech solution is one I adopted IMTU, where a reptilian race uses STL ships. Enforced hibernation with fast drug could be a viable option for you if you tweak it...
BTW, I read somewhere in passing that Bussard ramjets were now considered impractical. is that true?
Never heard of the magsail. Is that something that would work IRL?
Another lower-tech solution is one I adopted IMTU, where a reptilian race uses STL ships. Enforced hibernation with fast drug could be a viable option for you if you tweak it...
BTW, I read somewhere in passing that Bussard ramjets were now considered impractical. is that true?
Jeff M. Hopper
SOC-14 1K
Yes, the magsail is a real propulsion concept. It actually grew out of computer modelling of a Bussard ramjet scoop that showed that the scoop itself was creating too much drag in the planetary and interstellar medium. Zubrin thought of trying to use it as a sail and it works.
Although from what I am reading about M2P2, that design may supercede the magsail. My only hesitation on switching over from magsail to M2P2, and I knwo this will require more research on my end, is whether or not the self-contained plasma sail of M2P2 can withstand the intensity and possible buffetting of a near-sun approach that a powered-perihelion maneuver would require. I just have a lot more reading to do on it all.
