Armored Hulls for Book 2 combat

[Old_Dr_Skull]

I'm intending to use Book 2 for space combat in an upcoming game, but was wondering about hull armor for SDB's.

Has anyone tried to house rule armored hulls for Book 2 combat? I was thinking of charging a certain multiple of basic hull price (1.5? 2x?) and then in combat either giving armored hulls a certain penalty to hit, or perhaps a 1 in 6 chance that armor would stop any particular hit.

 

[mike wightman]

Trying to get a workable version of armour into LBB2 combat has been a holy grail of mine for the past 30 years. I've posted a few of my ideas from time to time but never been happy with any of them.

 

[hdan]

Yeah, there doesn't seem to be one. Though your question got me brainstorming. Here is an idea I had that I hope you like.

Probably the most straight forward way to model armor in Bk2 designs while still keeping the Bk2 flavor of simplicity would be to simply say that a hull is either armored or unarmored. I like the idea that you can armor your main and engineering sections separately (for reasons you'll see later), so I'm going with that idea.

An armored hull costs 3% more than an unarmored hull, and the armor takes up 5% of the hull's "main" section volume. The first time you get a hit on locations 6-8 (Hull/Hold - the most statistically likely locations), the armor blocks it. After blocking one hit, the armor is compromised and must be repaired before it can block any more hits.

You can buy more armor "layers" (just pay the cost and tonnage), each one of which blocks another hit. Note that each named location is individually armored - your armor will still protect your hold if your hull is hit, and the "other hull" is still protected as well. (I suggest making one of them the passenger deck and one the crew deck, or something like that.)

You can also buy armor for your drive section, provided you have room, which protects locations 2-4. The tonnage for that armor is 5% of the drive section's size and costs 2% of the hull's total cost. (Armoring the whole ship would cost 5% total, and would protect the drives, hull and hold from one hit each.)

Armor must be repaired at a shipyard of C class or better, and cost 1% of the hull's cost per hit to repair. (You don't need to repair the whole armor installation, just the "hole" that compromised it. You should never pay more than the armor's original cost to repair it, even for the drive section.)

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If you are ok with a little more complexity, you could add different armor types for different tech levels. This table gives the TL and hull cost percentage. (All take up 5% of the hull section they are armoring):

NOTE: all of these take up 5% of the hull section's tonnage they are protecting. The higher tech armors are MUCH more efficient in terms of space, though not cost. I had some verbiage to describe how each type of armor worked, but in the end I think a table is easier.

The table is the number of "hits" protected at each location, from 2-12: (2-4 are engineering, 5-12 are main.)

Titanium Steel (TL 7+): 3% / 2% hull cost
[1 1 1][0 1 1 1 0 0 0 0]

Crystaliron (TL 10+): 12% / 8% hull cost
[2 2 2][1 2 2 2 1 0 0 0]

Bonded Superdense (TL 14+): 50% hull cost
[3 3 3 2 3 3 3 2 1 1 1]

(I based armor costs off of the MGT SRD's costs, they may need to be adjusted.)

That you can't mix different types of armors when adding layers, though you could armor different sections with different types of armor if you wanted to.

The reason you'd pick a higher tech type of armor is to get better coverage for your 5% tonnage. The cost of that armor doesn't scale with the protection, so high tech armors will make a ship much more expensive, though it will be much better protected.

If you're using these rules, the starport performing the repairs must match the armor's tech level in order to perform the repair. Optionally, you could make the repair cost twice as much if the world has access to regular trade with a planet whose TL could repair the armor.


So let fancy programs and sandcasters make you harder to hit and let armor soaks up some of the damage for you. High tech SDBs can armor the whole ship with bonded superdense, traders in bad neighborhoods can armor their hulls and cargo to protect their passengers and merchandise, and quasi-military craft can use crystaliron to additionally keep their fuel and computer intact so they can jump away if necessary.

I haven't tried to playtest these rules at all, but they seem reasonable. You might notice that in 100 and 200 ton standard hulls, there's not any engineering section room to install armor. Oh well, that's what custom hulls and larger ships are for.

 

[aramis]

My method is an AR save on 1d6 per attack, and each hit stopped by armor is 1 ton of armor shattered.

AV should use a percentage. I've used AV1=1%, AV2=3%, AV 3= 6%, etc.

I gave PA's and Plasmas a +1 pen, and Fusions a +2. APAWs I give a +4 to penetrate.
Pulses lose their penalty to hit, but instead take a -1 to pen, but still roll twice.
Shots that penetrate do normal internals; shots that don't instead damage armor.

Gets sloppy at higher tonnages and AV's. But it's pretty good.

 

[far-trader]

As recently mentioned here in another thread Ken Pick did a few enhancements for Book 2 design, including armour:

http://www.freelancetraveller.com/features/shipyard/book2plus.html

 

[Omnivore]

Interesting problem. Simplest solution I can come up with is to ignore any mass/volume issues with armor, simple apply a price multiplier as you suggest to reflect the change in the material used for hull plating. I'd suggest using the square of the armor factor +1 as the hull cost modifier. Armor levels range from 0 (normal) to maximum of 6 by the following table:

[FONT="Fixedsys"]
[B]TL    Max Armor    Cost of armor[/B]
10           1                     x4
11           2                     x9
12           3                    x16
13           4                    x25
14           5                    x36
15           6                    x49
[/FONT]

On each successful hit, when rolling for damage, subtract the armor level from each die (minimum 1).
For example against armor 3, 3d6 of 5,3,6 would be reduced to 2,1,3 for 6 total instead of 18.

For each damage die that comes up 1 natural, roll another die, if it also comes up 1, reduce the target's armor level by 1.

That's about a simple a way of doing it as I can come up with.

Brian

 

[hdan]

CT spaceship combat does not roll for damage, a hit is a hit.

I considered a "saving throw" solution at first, but I decided it didn't feel very "CT" to me.

I'll have to read the other ideas at a later date, but I look forward to having the time to do so.

 

[robject]

CT spaceship combat does not roll for damage, a hit is a hit.

First, Traveller 5 lets you group several weapons of the same kind into a single attack, summing their hits. Each hit is 1D damage.

A ship's hull automatically has an AV typically equal to its TL. Added armor is about 4% of the hull volume for each additional TL of armor. There are various mods, as well. One type of hull's AV is only half TL, while another is double the TL.

For example, take a TL11 Beowulf. Its armor is AV 6.

Say we successfully attack it with a double beam laser and a single beam laser. That's 3 hits. Damage = 3D, say, 4+5+6 = 15.

15 is greater than the ship's AV, so the ship's armor is penetrated, its AV is reduced by 1, and the difference is halved: (15-6)/2 = 9/2 = 4 damage points. Using CT at this point, I would make 4 damage rolls, and the Beowulf's armor is now AV 5.

 

[hdan]

First, Traveller 5 lets you group several weapons of the same kind into a single attack, summing their hits. Each hit is 1D damage.

I like it. It sounds like T5's mechanism is similar to MgT in that each CT "hit" becomes 1D of damage, which then ultimately re-converts back into hits, but the T5 system seems more elegant.

I've considered a similar rule for MgT, but only with direct fire weapons within a single turret or bay. (Either fire each weapon separately and apply damage separately, or link them and make one to-hit roll, but add the damage together.) It would help make triple beam laser turrets useful against some of the crazy-high armor ships in MgT books.

 

[mike wightman]

LBB2 combat is binary - hit or miss

Damage is 1, 2 or 1-6 rolls on a damage table.

So either armour has to modify the to hit chance (which I don't like), it has to reduce damage or it provides a saving throw versus damage.

Looking at the HG damage tables there are certain factors of armour that act as breakpoints.

I keep thinking a LBB2 armour system can be built around those.

 

[hdan]

LBB2 combat is binary - hit or miss

Damage is 1, 2 or 1-6 rolls on a damage table.

So either armour has to modify the to hit chance (which I don't like), it has to reduce damage or it provides a saving throw versus damage.

Right, which is exactly why I proposed my Bk2 armor idea. (I started with a to-hit DM like personal armor, but abandoned it because I didn't like it either.)

You don't need saving throws or damage rolls. Simply have the armor protect different locations on the damage table. See my previous post for the longer version. You'll need a copy of the Bk2 damage table handy to make any sense of it.

I personally don't think the HG system is suitable for a Bk2 retrofit, but that's a highly subjective stance.