Armor and technology levels (TL)

[jaz0nj4ckal]

Folks,
Need some ideas how to use armor types and numbers for different Tech Levels. Long story short – I am trapping my group on a planet that has the technology level of Earth around 1300-1492 and need some ideas on how should I adapt armor and type.

Currently, I am just renaming the armors and changing the weight.

Thanks,
JJ

 

[McPerth]

Are they assumed to know where they go or just find themselves there by accident?

I ask that because, if they know they're going, they could prepare themselves with high tech items mimmiking low tech ones (e.g. a chain mail or a sword made of bonded superdentse, quite akin a mithril chain or a magical sword...).

Also, to see how such low equipement may be treated, there was an adventure published in Challenge #48-51 called Behind the Blue Eyes that was just about that. Also the article in Challenge 49 called When it's Lances, not Lasers treated precisely about what you ask (for MT rules, I'm afraid).

 

[Darkwing]

How much do the characters know about armor and weapons? As said above, if they know they're going there, then they can buy modern equivalent armors that look like that planet's local stuff. Or just use Imp Combat Armor as plate armor -it'll look close enough not to be too outre, but be better than anything local. A good modern-metallurgy sword will be better than anything they've got. A modern shotgun could be disguised to look like an arquebus or even a hand-gonne. A mortar could look like a pot-de-fer.
That would actually make a good cargo to get them there...

Now, if they're not expecting it, and crash there, then they may still be alright if they know enough about low-tech equipment - they can make their own and improve the arms/armor TL at the same time. Not that that helps in repairing the distress beacon or fixing the hull and engines, necessarily.

 

[McPerth]

Now, if they're not expecting it, and crash there, then they may still be alright if they know enough about low-tech equipment - they can make their own and improve the arms/armor TL at the same time. Not that that helps in repairing the distress beacon or fixing the hull and engines, necessarily.

If they know how to produce it, they'd need probably materilas not availabe (at TL2-3 this represents, forges are what they are, and it's quite difficult to produce stainless steel...

Aside from this, if they need help from locals (quite probable), this could raise the TL for a world that probably is interdicted, so incurring in an Imperial crime when (I think this is more accurate than if) they leave the planet...

OTOH, to bring better TL weapons/armor (as told above) will only add some items that would be seen as magic items in this world, without interfering in its TL developement (after all, they would probably be not even capable to imagine what this metal is as bonded superdense would not be even immagined by them).

EDIT: This thread could also be useful for this matter (though it treats about weapons, not armor): http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=27884

 

[jaz0nj4ckal]

Thanks for the ideas.

The players are crashing on this planet, and only know roughly about weapons and armor used in the era due to holoreels or holodisks. Due to the latter, no one is an expert, but knows of the weapons.

I did not think this far ahead, but players would be only able to build armor and weapons of the time period. Once lasers charges and bullets run out, the players will be force to use crossbows, swords, axes, etc.

I will see if I can find the Challenge magazines made mention.

Thanks

 

[Limburger59]

A Connecticut Space Marine on King Arthur's Planet....

bring on the accusations of witchcraft!

 

[jaz0nj4ckal]

A Connecticut Space Marine on King Arthur's Planet....

bring on the accusations of witchcraft!

Yep!!! that will be one of the issues, and the hooks to force my players to be careful.

 

[samuelvss]

due to holoreels or holodisks. Due to the latter, no one is an expert, but knows of the weapons.

I did not think this far ahead, but players would be only able to build armor and weapons of the time period.

I would say that players would NOT be able to build armor and weapons of the time period. There are technologies (e.g.: whitesmithing, fletching, woodworking) of which they would likely have insufficient knowledge. Education and mechanical of higher than 1 might allow enough metalurgy for making a passable set of edged weapons. Jack o'T might work for woodworking, to make proper handles.

That does not mean that the players would not be able to cobble something together, but rather that it might be dangerously insufficient when put to the test. My Cr.02

 

[Timerover51]

Thanks for the ideas.

The players are crashing on this planet, and only know roughly about weapons and armor used in the era due to holoreels or holodisks. Due to the latter, no one is an expert, but knows of the weapons.

I did not think this far ahead, but players would be only able to build armor and weapons of the time period. Once lasers charges and bullets run out, the players will be force to use crossbows, swords, axes, etc.

I will see if I can find the Challenge magazines made mention.

Thanks

How much research are you willing to put in on this? I have about a half-dozen books in my library that I could reference you, some of which I would assume that you could get through your local library. They would cover not only the weapons and armour of that period, but also the characteristics of the warfare. Although those would be heavily influenced by the availability of both iron and something approximating the horse for locomotion and warfare. I also have a some material on naval warfare as well of the period.

For some idea of what you might be thinking of, track down a copy of Lord Kalvan of the Otherwhen, by H. Beam Piper.

 

[McPerth]

I did not think this far ahead, but players would be only able to build armor and weapons of the time period. Once lasers charges and bullets run out, the players will be force to use crossbows, swords, axes, etc.

As for lasers, maybe they can be recharged if the players have some equipement working with solar pannels, or with crank recharged batteries (some pocket cold light torches nowdays work this way, 1 minute turning the crank for 20 minutes of light...), albeit quite slowly, only to give you some examples. They could sell to the natives as recharging a magic rod (as in most fantasy RPG), and if solar power is used, it should be (to the natives) an altar where to recharge it...

Bullets could be recharged if they know how to make gunpowder and cast the bullets, if they recover spent cartidges (and if they are not using caseless rounds).

And any blade they have (e.g. cutlass) will be quite better than weapons found in the planet.

bring on the accusations of witchcraft!

Remember not all societies have condemned witchcraft and sorcery as medieval Europe did. In many societies shamans and witch doctors were integral part of the societey, and well accepted (even if looked upon with distrust).

In the told adventure Behind the Blue Eyes, shamans are accepted, being mostly psionics, and in other Traveller suplements they are featured as conn masters and/or psionics too.

 

[Timerover51]

Bullets could be recharged if they know how to make gunpowder and cast the bullets, if they recover spent cartidges (and if they are not using caseless rounds).

There is a small item called a "primer" also used in cartridges, and if they are using a small caliber assault rifle, black powder is pretty much useless, because of the small cartridge case. You would also need some form of bullet mold as well, capable of casting very accurately dimensioned bullets. I will not even get into how well a small-caliber gas-operated rifle is going to work using black powder.

By 1492, gunpowder was being widely used, but was not exactly of the highest quality. They might be able to make some improvements on the local weapons, if they has a some knowledge of military history and weapons development. Rifling and Minie balls come to mind, also the socket bayonet. However, the tech level is going to work against anything requiring very accurate tolerances.

 

[McPerth]

There is a small item called a "primer" also used in cartridges, and if they are using a small caliber assault rifle, black powder is pretty much useless, because of the small cartridge case. You would also need some form of bullet mold as well, capable of casting very accurately dimensioned bullets. I will not even get into how well a small-caliber gas-operated rifle is going to work using black powder.

I based my assumption in what is told to be done in T2K due to the loss of ammunition manufacturing. I assumed it could be possible also in this scenario too to build one's own ammunition, even if it will eventually destroy your wepon with its use (after all, if you have no ammo, what do you want your weapon for?).

Once again, I have no real idea about how ammunition is manufactured, so I'l ltrust you, that surely know quite more than myself.

By 1492, gunpowder was being widely used, but was not exactly of the highest quality. They might be able to make some improvements on the local weapons, if they has a some knowledge of military history and weapons development. Rifling and Minie balls come to mind, also the socket bayonet. However, the tech level is going to work against anything requiring very accurate tolerances.

Yes, but the OP told about tech as Earth (I guess Europe) arround1300-1492. In 1492, as you say, gunpowder was being widely used. In 1300 this was not so true...

 

[whartung]

The key component, either way, is that odds are none of the characters will have any of the skills necessary. They won't have the skills to create weapons (beyond, say, a club from a stick), they won't have the skills to use them effectively, and they probably won't even have the fitness to do well with them for any duration. Swinging heavy things is hard work and uses muscle groups most of us don't use specifically because we don't swing heavy things.

They may well have the book knowledge for some of this on a data cube in the ship, assuming they have the power to read it. But it's book knowledge, and typically not applicable straight out of the book.

Given TIME (LOTS of time -- months to years), they can gain these skills if they have access to the raw materials and, ideally, expert training (a book can not evaluate your progress or tell you what you're doing wrong). They may well learn a lot through failure -- which has it's own costs.

Eric Flints 1633 series deals a lot with these issues.

I hope they can speak the local language...

 

[Limburger59]

Too much focus on a direction I can't see occurring. I don't see the PC's having the time to learn how to create weapons before the witchcraft trials and political machinations begin. Also, the PC's could starve before setting up a weapons operation. I doubt any of us have the skills to set up an operation in the 1800's, let alone the 1300's, without a lot of curious officials raising an eyebrow.

My character would focus on (1) "ET phone home" - creating a distress call that any ships visiting the gas giant for a fill-up could detect , (2) finding local royalty with an eligible daughter, (3) setting up an academy, (4) keeping my auto-pistol under my robes, and (5) keeping my grav belt turned off so I don't accidentally weigh the same as a duck .

 

[Darkwing]

But I have to echo the suggestion of reading Lord Kalvan, and the sequel, Great King's War. Knowledge of such subjects can become a plot point. Whether they can build it or not, if they can convince the right people they know how to improve them is a point they can use to increase their usefulness and importance. I'd be doing that, if I was one of your players. "OK, so you have crossbows, pot-de-fers, and hand-gonnes. Let me tell you about compound bows, muskets and flintlocks"

 

[Dragoner]

Chemistry would be a better skill than metallurgy, being able to make nitrocellulose and TNT, or refine silver from ore, would make them quite rich and powerful.

 

[Greylond]

Jerry Pournelle's Janissaries series would be an excellent source of inspiration for this idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janissaries_series

 

[rancke]

Is this an interdicted world? Because otherwise the locals already know about the wonders of modern science and there is some other reason why they don't have better tools.


Hans

 

[Darkwing]

Even if they know about them, do they have the money to buy it? If the locals have nothing of any real value, not many merchants bother even landing, and so they heard about them, but haven't been able to buy them. Or the PCs are a chance to learn how to make some of this without spending a duchy's GDP to get it.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

He mentioned it was a Luddite society, so they might very well not be fooled by a Vilani in King Arthur's Court.