Archdukes and emperors are beyond the normal scope of play

[E.D.Quibell]

And I repeat, once more, my question, still unanswered:

I'm talking about sitting down around a table with five of my friends. Each of them has a character sheet in front of him. One of the sheets detail Archduke Kieran Adair of Sol. Now tell me, what characters do the other four play, and what adventures do I run them through that gives them all more or less the same amount of "screen time"?​

Hans

Ok. Lets give this a go.

Right ... the Archduke of Sol. He has to be personally involved he can't just be a Patron for some other team. So it has to be somthing pretty Earth Shattering.

As it's the Archduke of Sol, I'd go with the Solomani, and say a something Earth Shattering enough would be the "defection" of a large part of the Solomani Sphere to the Imperium.

Face to Face meeting with the head of that large part, to show just how willing both sides are to the deal, but the need to limit the amount of people in the know.

Small team, incogneto travelling to an arranged meeting place for negotiations. Fixer, 2x boady guard and aide. Why a small incognetio team? Best chance of sucsess, or a requirement of the meeting, or have something go wrong with the archduke's ship/fleet meaning they have to improvise and travel as a small group.

They need to work their way to and from the negotiating place against a fixed time limit, minimalising the number of people who know and can prove that the Archduke isn't "ill" and thus staying away from public life at his normal residence (or having a Robot do his duties ;-)

The Fixer PC is going to be making the arrangements of the passage. Roll playing with ship's captains, pursers etc. The Arckduke is going to have to interact with "normal" people and not have everything done for him. Tough call for the player as this will be playing "normal" life from the prospective of the character who has very little concept of what a "normal" life is. The boady guards are going to be interacting with any percived and actual threast to their charge without getting the Archduke killed or drawing attention to the party from the authorities. The aide is going to be roll playing teaching the Archduke how to be "normal" and the type of things "normal" rich people do. I would have the Aide be a "girl next door made good" type of character grounded in both the middle and upperclass'. And running the disguises of the Archduke and party.

Every character is going to have two backstories one for their actual charachters and one for their posonas they are travelling under (or more). And then they are going to have to roll play this, in and out of different company trying not to make mistakes

Money, documantation or equipment won't be an issue (Imperial warrant anyone?), however avoiding those people who are likley to know who the Archduke is will be (i.e. travelling via liner or free trader?)

Reacurring protagonists can be a TNS investagative reporter sniffing the scoop of a lifetime, and a Solsec agent/team who run accross the Archduke somehow and sniff something is up.

The TNS reporter is going to have to be fended off by the Fixer and Aide, while Solsec can give you some gun play if you wish, while leaving you with an out the party doesn't have to explaine to much.

Throw in a couple of standard shipboard adventures and see how it all goes. Remember solving the adventure as the team while not reviling the fact that it's the archduke.

The meeting is the half way point in the campaingn, and getting back is the end.

What do you think? Doable? Workable? A Start?

Best regards,

Ewan

 

[Meteoric Assault]

In the rarified air where Emperors soar an "adventure" is to slip out to garden for a walk or even to give a jaunty salute to His Imperial Majesty's Lifeguard Corps. He doesn't as much own the empire as it owns him; and an Archduke not much better. If tried, the secret police would most likely pick them up and deliver them back to the Lord Chamberlain.

Emperor Franz Joesphe.... very nice painting

Well you could always play the Noble from the context of grand strategy or High Political Drama ( i.e RP a wargame or between two parties)
the Dune series always talks about the art of "Kanly"(SP) just because is limits the adventure and such doesn't mean you are unable to play them if in the right context.

 

[Dragoner]

It is nice, thanks, I like the uniforms as they are similar but different to other countries. I use the Austro-Hungarian empire as the image for the Imperium in my mind, it didn't have the ravaging colonialism, though being that my family is Austrian, I have a certain closer idea.

Emperors or Archdukes could definitely be involved as commanders in military campaigns, as typically they did go to the front.

 

[McPerth]

And there's another way to play with nobles (perhaps not archdukes, but even a duke may fill in), if you play in the rebellion millieu: you can make your campaign about a group of the Brothers of Varian.

As the organization is given in MT, its core is made of nobles (many, if not most, of them deposed from their fiefs, and more so as time passes) that fight for honor alone (or so they say).

MT uses to present them as a terrorist group without a true ideology nor aim and who use to make more harm than good, but in your campaign they may be the heros that intend to take revenge on Lucan and Dulinor for theur treasons (unless your group likes to be terrorists, of course, if so they can be played as presented on MT).

This way you can heve a Count, a Marquis, a Duke and a cupple of knights adventuring by the imperium (or what is left from it) and taking part in intelligence, sabotage, rescues, diplomacy, or whatever else your imagination may tell you.

 

[Chuck Anumia]

I only allow char Gen to create Nobles if it is for a specific game (although I allow an ACTUAL odds roll if a player wants but, that requires LOTS of D10's). I also don't usually run games with geriatric characters at the beginning.

I agree. There is (must be?) a time and place for the players to expand their character/acting abilities.
For specific campaigns (ones with a definite beginning, middle and end) I will allow players to generate Noble characters. they may even become Baron's and interact with the highest echelons of society but only in a limited scope and for a severely limited time. They come on stage, perform their parts, make their choices and then must live with them as the campaign progresses. They may come out on top (success) and be recognized by their superiors (before they retire to their estates) or they may fail (significantly so) and have to live in a reduced status with the the ire of their superiors and the Imperium at large.

 

[far-trader]

And there's another way to play with nobles (perhaps not archdukes, but even a duke may fill in), if you play in the rebellion millieu: you can make your campaign about a group of the Brothers of Varian...

...but per the question, and given the description, they aren't Nobles in any real sense. In name perhaps but not in function.

And speaking of function how do these Nobles suddenly become adept if not experts at asymmetrical warfare or terrorism?

It doesn't pass muster for me

 

[rancke]

This way you can heve a Count, a Marquis, a Duke and a cupple of knights adventuring by the imperium (or what is left from it) and taking part in intelligence, sabotage, rescues, diplomacy, or whatever else your imagination may tell you.

Sure. As long as you remove the nobles from their natural habitats, they can go adventuring. It'll be just as plausible as having a swashbucklers' campaign with King Charles, Queen Henrietta, the Duke of Buckingham, and a couple of their cronies raiding the Cardinal's study to get the secret plans or sneaking around Le Havre planting firebombs on French ships-of-the-line.


Hans

 

[rancke]

For specific campaigns (ones with a definite beginning, middle and end) I will allow players to generate Noble characters. they may even become Baron's and interact with the highest echelons of society but only in a limited scope and for a severely limited time.

I simply make the noble titles you get out of the character generation system planetary nobles (or Imperial knighthoods of the equivalent prestige). IMTU an Imperial baron is SL 24.


Hans

 

[McPerth]

And speaking of function how do these Nobles suddenly become adept if not experts at asymmetrical warfare or terrorism?

Well... telling them experts is pehaps a little exagerated...

For what I've seen in the few instances they come to play in published adventures (e.g. Arrival Vengeance), they don't seem exactly experts, and they seem to work mostly by contacts an indirectly.

Sure. As long as you remove the nobles from their natural habitats, they can go adventuring. It'll be just as plausible as having a swashbucklers' campaign with King Charles, Queen Henrietta, the Duke of Buckingham, and a couple of their cronies raiding the Cardinal's study to get the secret plans or sneaking around Le Havre planting firebombs on French ships-of-the-line.
Hans

Sure you remove them from their habitats, but I think one of the meanings of this thread was to find a plausible excuse just for that should one of your players roll such folly dice on CGen as to came out with a high noble.

As is said on some entries, nobles in traveller are administrators and cannot just go adventuring without deserting their posts.

 

[Icosahedron]

As is said on some entries, nobles in traveller are administrators and cannot just go adventuring without deserting their posts.

Doesn't seem to stop Richard Branson...
...Or Prince Charles. He can go skiing and yachting without the Duchy of Cornwall collapsing in a heap of unsigned paperwork. I'm sure he could go vigilante-ing (?) too if he had a mind to - from a time perspective - public opinion would probably be more of a problem.

Edit: Oh no, now I can't shake an image of HRH in a body sleeve and cape - wasn't there a superhero called 'Jughead' in Archie Comics...?

Thinking along those lines, noble duties didn't deter Queen Victoria's son Edward from his 'adventures' either.

In fact, judging by the attendance rate at the House of Lords, I'm not sure that any of the British nobility are so tied up with duty that they couldn't take time out. The case may be different for members of the Cabinet; they might be missed - OTOH, I couldn't really comment on that.

Still, everyone gets a holiday, don't they? Maybe that's when the adventure takes place.

 

[RainOfSteel]

One of my favorite characters was Imperial Flt Admrial who was also a Duke.It seems every time he goes on a vacation the ship gets hijacked & he ends up gathering together several passengers & (with limited resources) takes back the ship.One of the other characters who has been on several voyages has started to refuse to travel with him unless he charters the ship for his personal use.:rofl:

I cannot ever see an Imperial Duke ever going on a vacation on anything but his own ship. Probably massing at least 10k dTons and carrying his Huscarles with him.

Jumping on a liner? Not likely unless it were some special event and his Huscarles would be along anyway, along with security checks for the ship, everyone on board, and all their baggage.

--------------

An Emperor or Archduke as PC? It would require a specialized campaign. Technically, the Emperor can order almost anything done. In practice, he knows that every order has a consequence.

If the Emperor orders what appears to be a random change in the IN budget to move an annual contract for even just one batron of Tigress' from one megacorporation to another (2,901 TCr), it will ignite a political firestorm when the various nobles involved in the lost side of the contract go to work with the influence they have in an attempt to win it back. Some will be permanently enraged that the action took place, and may begin scheming against Imperial interests. Others, not even involved, will wonder if they too will lose contracts for no reason, and this will create a climate of fear an uncertainty.

On the other hand, if a megacorporation commits some gaff noticeable all the way up at the level of the Emperor, like getting caught in slavery operations, or bilking the Imperium out of any taxes, or delivery shoddy goods to the IN, conducting a little out of the way war that winds up breaking the unwritten Rules of War; anything at all like that, then an order from the Emperor to move the contract as punishment would be known and understood by all. Of course, it would still be hated by the losers, but at least everyone would know why.

A wise Emperor would weigh and judge all his or her actions this way, proper orders are understood, random appearing orders are not. In the end, everyone will not be happy at the same time. Consequences all the way around.

The Imperium is 1100 years old by the time of the original era of the OTU milieu. The Moot and the Emperor, IMO, spend most of their time each year hashing out the Imperial budget. Any legal matters, such as creating new laws or rulings, are most likely based on technicalities stacked on technicalities; they've had plenty of time to hash out the simpler stuff before hand.

As a PC, the Emperor would either:

1) Be caught in an eternal series of meetings and politically motivated discussions that would last all day. Even on "weekends" (such as they might be in the OTU), the Emperor would be diligently pursued by everyone in order to gain his ear.

2) Wind up being a rebellious type character, constantly shirking expected duties, blowing off meetings with all manner of nobles, insulting their honor, and generally making a mess of court. It could certainly be exciting from an opportunistic standpoint, but virtually everyone would hate it. Hated Emperors have a history of not lasting long in the Imperium.

Further, only one player can be Emperor. This is going to create issues between players, I guarantee it.

Archdukes? Well, they're usually widely separated, so having a group of Archdukes is just ridiculous. Maybe a one-shot on-Capital/Core adventure when they're all assembled for some reason or other, but as a campaign, it seems more than a little iffy.

Archdukes before Strephon's restoration would be much more likely, IMO. They were generally powerless. It would have been approximately 400-500 years since any archduke had any real power, they're existence might well have come to be viewed as either pathetic, a joke, or both. In this state, I could come along on adventures. The issue is, they still would have some real money (like being able to buy small yachts without difficulty), and they would still almost certainly have ceremonial duties that they would be effectively ducking out on.

Archdukes after the restoration? The same issues as being an Emperor arise, only at a slightly smaller scale. In any lasting campaign, only one player would get to be archduke.

As for being patrons? The Emperor or archdukes? I suppose it depends on what type of campaign is being played. In my view, it is just not likely. If it happened at all, both ranks would be very distant manipulators of the players. In a political campaign of nobles on Capital/Core (or an archduke's world), it would have more of a chance. But even with this, there is an issue.

As soon as anyone figures out that the PCs have the ear of the Emperor or a restored archduke, the PCs will be besieged with requests to gain access and favor to their patron. I hope they enjoy being followed around even more strenuously than the paparazzi followed Lady Diana.

Of course, IMTU, the Emperor has his own intelligence organization, and in it is the ultimate black ops group, a handful of men and women who are his personal agents. You could make a campaign out of that, the they would have regular contact with the Emperor. However, in my experience, most groups of players aren't really capable of carrying off the extreme professionalism that I view being the primary characteristics of the "Emperor's Men". I guess it seems like a broad generalization on my part. Maybe a group of all ex-Navy Seals gamers could pull it off, but I don't think they'd let me GM them.

Perhaps if the players were the personal Huscarles of an archduke or the Emperor? That would make the patron angle a little better.

 

[rancke]

Doesn't seem to stop Richard Branson...
...Or Prince Charles. He can go skiing and yachting without the Duchy of Cornwall collapsing in a heap of unsigned paperwork. I'm sure he could go vigilante-ing (?) too if he had a mind to - from a time perspective - public opinion would probably be more of a problem.

It's true that not all nobles are administrators. But the Emperor and the archdukes are. As for Prince Charles, he's a far cry from being even an Imperial duke. He might or might not qualify to be the social equal of an Imperial baron. And I don't see his (or Richard Branson's) holiday junkets under the vigilant eyes of dozens of paparazzi as being anything close to a normal Traveller party's exploits.

A one-off murder mystery you can probably create for practically any group of characters. Peter Lovesey wrote a couple of good murder mysteries with Prince Bertie (Queen Victoria's son) as the detective.

But a campaign? Normal adventures?

Thinking along those lines, noble duties didn't deter Queen Victoria's son Edward from his 'adventures' either.

Emphasis on the quotation marks. His 'adventures' weren't adventures in the normal RPG sense.

In fact, judging by the attendance rate at the House of Lords, I'm not sure that any of the British nobility are so tied up with duty that they couldn't take time out.

How many normal Traveller parties have characters that have to spend even part of their time on administrative duties? But I'll agree that it could be done. However, members of the British aristocracy isn't anywhere near as important as Imperial nobles -- especially not high nobles. As I said above, royal princes might just qualify for Imperial baronial titles (honor, not high). Dukes and marquesses might qualify for Imperial knighthoods. Mere earls and viscounts and barons should be so lucky.


Hans

 

[rancke]

Archdukes before Strephon's restoration would be much more likely, IMO. They were generally powerless. It would have been approximately 400-500 years since any archduke had any real power, they're existence might well have come to be viewed as either pathetic, a joke, or both. In this state, I could come along on adventures. The issue is, they still would have some real money (like being able to buy small yachts without difficulty), and they would still almost certainly have ceremonial duties that they would be effectively ducking out on.

The archdukes were presumably all of them sector dukes too, even back when their archduke hats were relatively powerless, so they'd have money to burn. And duties tying them to their jobs...


Hans

 

[RainOfSteel]

Some, sure, but a lot? And they mostly seem to involve those persons losing their office and having to gad about in low circles in order to regain their office (Prince & Pauper, etc.). Can you give a few examples of people of high social status and office having adventures while retaining the trapping of their position?

Ben Hur

The Lady Duchess Steadholder Honor Harrington, Admiral of the Fleet, Commander of Home Fleet (so far): David Weber

Phaethon (John C. Wright's The Golden Age; he's the son of one of the seven wealthiest men in all of human history, and a man nearly as wealthy in his own right).

Ghost in the Shell, Stand Alone Complex, Second Gig: Major Kusinagi and the Prime Minister.

The Foundation Trilogy: Several of the stories qualify.

The Original Dragonrider Trilogy: Anne McCaffrey (The Weyrleaders are effectively the highest ranking nobles, at least while thread is falling)

Dorsai!: Gordon Dickson

The Killing of Worlds: Scott Westerfeld

Aristoi: Walter Jon Williams

Gateway and Beyond the Blue Event Horizon: Frederick Pohl, Robinette Broadhead catapults himself from being nobody to being somebody (by sheer luck at first).

The Man Who Used the Universe: Alan Dean Foster

The Game of Fox and Lion: Robert R. Chase.

Various works by David Eddings (Fantasy, but still relevant): The Belgariad, The Mallorean, The Elennium, The Tamuli.

---------------------------

The archdukes were presumably all of them sector dukes too, even back when their archduke hats were relatively powerless, so they'd have money to burn. And duties tying them to their jobs...

I did mention that I believed pre-restoration archdukes probably still had lots of money as far as ordinary players were concerned.

SJG's Traveller News section discusses the Sol Domain's Archduke in a way that suggests that he/she was not a sector duke. The Gateway Domain book says the opposite, where Archduke Nels was also a sector duke (and then lost the archducal title). I vaguely recall getting an answer about this years ago and it was, "Things are not exactly the same everywhere in the Imperium." I personally didn't like that, but there it was.

---------------------------

And I repeat, once more, my question, still unanswered:

I'm talking about sitting down around a table with five of my friends. Each of them has a character sheet in front of him. One of the sheets detail Archduke Kieran Adair of Sol. Now tell me, what characters do the other four play, and what adventures do I run them through that gives them all more or less the same amount of "screen time"?​

I think it would require a very specialized situation. The other characters would all need to be, one way or another, super bad-ass in their own bailiwicks in order to compete with an archduke. Players are running the characters, after all, and most of them have feelings (I would hope). Playing permanently inferior characters against the megastar characters generates jealously and dissatisfaction.

Character 1: Archduke
Character 2: Megacorporate Director
Character 3: Legendary Gunslinger
Character 4: Legendary Hacker
Character 5: Ninja, with a motorcycle.

 

[RainOfSteel]

The Dune [...] RPGs had player characters who were emperor of the Galaxy [...]?

I never had that game. Wouldn't that have been hyperbole for the title? The milieu of Dune did not cover the Milky Way Galaxy as far as I know, or even any significant fraction of it. I'm just wondering if, in the RPG, they were really asserting that the Landsraad and others covered the whole Milky Way.

 

[RainOfSteel]

I simply make the noble titles you get out of the character generation system planetary nobles (or Imperial knighthoods of the equivalent prestige). IMTU an Imperial baron is SL 24.

What's the complete list?

 

[aramis]

Another adventuresome main character of wealth and power, and effectively noble or celebrity status:

Willard Phule, aka Captain Jester, Scion of Phule-Proof Munitions: Rob't Asprins' Phules' Company series

Lord Miles Naismith Vorkosigan, Count Piotr Vorkosigan, Emperor Gregor Vorbarra, Lord Padma & Lady Alys Vorpatril, Lord Aral & Lady Cordelia Vorkosigan, Lord Ivan Vorpatril... Much of the entire Vorkosigan series by Bujold are the adventures of Miles, and his kinsman Ivan and Gregor, while he is deputy to the council of Counts. The others, however, are during a civil war... Gregor's one adventure is a run-away situation which definitely shows the prisoner trap of being the emperor...

We'll see what happens with the next novel in the series with Count Vorkosigan.

 

[Icosahedron]

As for Prince Charles, he's a far cry from being even an Imperial duke. He might or might not qualify to be the social equal of an Imperial baron.

...However, members of the British aristocracy isn't anywhere near as important as Imperial nobles -- especially not high nobles. As I said above, royal princes might just qualify for Imperial baronial titles (honor, not high). Dukes and marquesses might qualify for Imperial knighthoods. Mere earls and viscounts and barons should be so lucky.

In their own way they are just as important as 'Imperial' nobles. They're big fish in a small pond. They may not rate highly on a galactic scale, but in their own backyard they have exactly the same problems and exactly the same number of hours in their day.

And I don't see his (or Richard Branson's) holiday junkets under the vigilant eyes of dozens of paparazzi as being anything close to a normal Traveller party's exploits.

Emphasis on the quotation marks. His 'adventures' weren't adventures in the normal RPG sense.

Hans

This may be the situation in 21st Century England, and probably in the OTU, but what made the previous Prince's exploits easier was lack of paparazzi. it depends on YTU, of course, but maybe some administrators have no freedom of the press to worry about.

Did I hear a story about one of the Roman Emperors (Marcus Aurelius?) going around incognito to find out first hand what his subjects thought, rather than having information filtered through layers of sycophants? No doubt Mithras could tell me.
There's a plot for you.

 

[rancke]

Note: For brevity I've deleted those examples that I haven't read about.

Can you give a few examples of people of high social status and office having adventures while retaining the trapping of their position?

Ben Hur

That's flat out wrong. The man gets enslaved. That's as far from retaining the trappings of his position as you can get.

The Lady Duchess Steadholder Honor Harrington, Admiral of the Fleet, Commander of Home Fleet (so far)

Better, but I don't recall any normal Traveller adventures where the PCs had several tens of millions tons of warships and hundreds of thousands of minnions along. But it's true that she is a ruling noble whose govenmental functions are performed by a deputy. As long as she has some stronger duty to keep her from performing them herself. That's going to scotch most normal Traveller adventures I know of right there.

Now, if you had been able to refer to Queen Elizabeth or Protector Benjamin going adventuring, you might have had something.

The Foundation Trilogy: Several of the stories qualify.

It's been a while since I reread those, so I could be wrong, but I don't recall any that did.

The Original Dragonrider Trilogy: Anne McCaffrey (The Weyrleaders are effectively the highest ranking nobles, at least while thread is falling)

And how many of them went off having adventures instead of fighting thread?

Dorsai!: Gordon Dickson

Which of the characters are you thinking of?

Gateway and Beyond the Blue Event Horizon: Frederick Pohl, Robinette Broadhead catapults himself from being nobody to being somebody (by sheer luck at first).

I don't see how that applies.

Various works by David Eddings (Fantasy, but still relevant): The Belgariad, The Mallorean, The Elennium, The Tamuli.

I've only read the Belgariad (Eddings wrote a good book -- over and over again). I don't see the relevance.

I think it would require a very specialized situation.

Beyond the normal scope of play, you mean?

Character 1: Archduke
Character 2: Megacorporate Director
Character 3: Legendary Gunslinger
Character 4: Legendary Hacker
Character 5: Ninja, with a motorcycle.

And what sort of adventures would you run them through?


Hans

 

[rancke]

I never had that game. Wouldn't that have been hyperbole for the title? The milieu of Dune did not cover the Milky Way Galaxy as far as I know, or even any significant fraction of it. I'm just wondering if, in the RPG, they were really asserting that the Landsraad and others covered the whole Milky Way.

Note the question mark. I was refuting the previous statement.


Hans