Anyone have information on Duale in the Mora subsector?

[ACK!!]

Starting off my campaign on Duale.

I have the rice papers on Duale and some Mora subsector stuff.

Maitz was detailed extensively and Hexos was done very well by someone else.

My group may go beyond the Mora subsector but that is where we are starting.

With the tidbit about the Imperial Research Station Alpha accident I thought there might be more out there on it and Duale in general.

Anyone have sources beyond the RICE papers?


Right now I call the downport city Vlanad Centre and with the tainted atmosphere play it less like a dome city and more like a huge multi-level mall with gigantic skylights to let in light and such.

Looking for like city names and satellite names or the names of the gas giant etc... etc..

Is there obvious canon I am missing?

I am doing my campaign right after the Fifth Frontier War.

Yes, I already have the kid with the -- I survived Research Station Alpha "accidents" and all I got was this lousy t-shirt -- thing written in.

 

[ACK!!]

Ok, people if there is no more information on Duale than the RICE papers then I think I am going to have to do a landgrab.

Deal is that I am using the planet as the scene for the first three adventures in my current campaign.

I know that it is noble-led tolitarian oligarchy that during the time of the Regency ends up going over to civilian government, but I am doing a campaign starting 1112 at the end of Fifth Frontier War but before the assasination of Strephon.

With such a wonderous tidbit in the Spinward Marches docs about Research Station Alpha and the accidents I thought someone would have come up with something.

I was making the main downport connecting metro area Vlanad Centre after the Von Lanad family of course. After the Fifth Frontier war I was writing in the beginning of the unrest between the civilian revolutionaries and the noble families. After all, the Imperium had to shift a lot of their built-up forces during the war out of the system.

Any comments people.

I hate doing planet maps and system stuff mainly because I suck at most of the available drawing programs on the web. But it might be fun making a bit of "canon".

 

[Malenfant]

Well, from a system point of view it doesn't seem too interesting. According to the Regency Sourcebook it orbits an M2 V, there's a DM star in there too.

Hmm. Does DM mean a white dwarf? There's a hell of a lot of systems that have those, which means that all of them will have been toasted by the red giant stage of the white dwarf at some point. Maybe it should mean a brown dwarf or substellar object? That'd make all those systems more habitable. Either that, or it's in a distant orbit a few thousand AU away, so that doesn't really matter.

Either way, if Duale is habitable, it'll have to be in a pretty close orbit to the M2 V, and it'll be tidelocked, and it'll have no moons.

I use more realistic stellar data that are currently in Traveller... but I'll assume you'd want it in CT terms so rather than confuse things I'll just use the stellar data from Book 6. That said, I'll do the nitty-gritty using teh GT:First In rules, since they're more realistic.

An M2 V is about 0.426 solar masses, 0.473 solar radii, and 0.0268 sols luminosity. If Duale has albedo 0.20 and a greenhouse effect of 1.120 (0.5 atms), and orbits at 0.2 AU (Orbit 0), and taking into account the tidal lock, then it'll have a base surface temperature of 320K (47 C). A bit toasty, but that's the temperature in the mid-latitudes of the dayside - it's down to more bearable temperatures at the twilight zone and a fair bit into the dark side though, so I suspect that's where most of the people will be. The water is likely to be around the twilight zone and dark side.

The frost line of the system (beyond which you'll find ice bodies and gas giants) is at 0.41 AU, and the system can be as old as you want it to be, since M V stars hardly evolve much over the entire lifespan of the universe. I'd settle for 5 billion years to make it nice and mature and easier for life to form.

Assuming Duale has a radius of 4000 km and earthlike density (5500 kg/m3), its surface gravity is 0.63G and escape velocity is about 7 km/s. The orbital period/day length around the star is 50.25 earth days.

And now having figured all that out, I bet someone will say that someone else wrote it up in canon (and that's horribly unrealistic), as is the way of such things

.

 

[ACK!!]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
An M2 V is about 0.426 solar masses, 0.473 solar radii, and 0.0268 sols luminosity. If Duale has albedo 0.20 and a greenhouse effect of 1.120 (0.5 atms), and orbits at 0.2 AU (Orbit 0), and taking into account the tidal lock, then it'll have a base surface temperature of 320K (47 C). A bit toasty, but that's the temperature in the mid-latitudes of the dayside - it's down to more bearable temperatures at the twilight zone and a fair bit into the dark side though, so I suspect that's where most of the people will be. The water is likely to be around the twilight zone and dark side.

The frost line of the system (beyond which you'll find ice bodies and gas giants) is at 0.41 AU, and the system can be as old as you want it to be, since M V stars hardly evolve much over the entire lifespan of the universe. I'd settle for 5 billion years to make it nice and mature and easier for life to form.

Assuming Duale has a radius of 4000 km and earthlike density (5500 kg/m3), its surface gravity is 0.63G and escape velocity is about 7 km/s. The orbital period/day length around the star is 50.25 earth days.

And now having figured all that out, I bet someone will say that someone else wrote it up in canon (and that's horribly unrealistic), as is the way of such things

.

Cool beans I might use such a description in any landgrab doc I write since the whole stellar mapping science stuff is not my biggee. I am historian and a computer geek. Got a history degree and do unix systems work.

Ok, the planet is supposed to be a thin tainted atmosphere planet and the atmosphere is tainted with nitrides.

WTF does that mean? What is a nitride tainted atmosphere like?

Thanks ahead of time.

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by ACK:
Ok, the planet is supposed to be a thin tainted atmosphere planet and the atmosphere is tainted with nitrides.

WTF does that mean? What is a nitride tainted atmosphere like?
[/QB]

Well, a Nitride is like an oxide, but with nitrogen. So instead of H2O, you'd have H2N instead. Or something.

All I can find is this:
http://www.epa.gov/ceppo/cameo/help/chapte43.htm

which says that:
"Materials in this [nitride] group are reducing agents. They generate flammable or noxious gases in contact with water. Many nitrides react with moisture to evolve gaseous ammonia, which is toxic and combustible." They also "tend to react with water to give corrosive or toxic products. Corrosive to skin and mucous membranes"

I have no clue how you'd make nitrides naturally. It sounds like you can get them in volcanic lavas, but I can't find any info about them being the sort of thing you'd find in gaseous form in the plumes that volcanoes erupt so they can get into an atmosphere (and also, they'd react with the water on the planet to form ammonia).

You'd have to ask a chemist on that one, I'm afraid. But I'm getting the impression that it's not actually that possible to have a nitride-rich atmosphere.

Either way, it sounds like an unpleasant place - possibly even more like an atm A or B.

 

[ACK!!]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
Well, a Nitride is like an oxide, but with nitrogen. So instead of H2O, you'd have H2N instead. Or something.

All I can find is this:
http://www.epa.gov/ceppo/cameo/help/chapte43.htm

which says that:
"Materials in this [nitride] group are reducing agents. They generate flammable or noxious gases in contact with water. Many nitrides react with moisture to evolve gaseous ammonia, which is toxic and combustible." They also "tend to react with water to give corrosive or toxic products. Corrosive to skin and mucous membranes"

I have no clue how you'd make nitrides naturally. It sounds like you can get them in volcanic lavas, but I can't find any info about them being the sort of thing you'd find in gaseous form in the plumes that volcanoes erupt so they can get into an atmosphere (and also, they'd react with the water on the planet to form ammonia).

You'd have to ask a chemist on that one, I'm afraid. But I'm getting the impression that it's not actually that possible to have a nitride-rich atmosphere.

Either way, it sounds like an unpleasant place - possibly even more like an atm A or B.

Nitride tainted is the way I will play and write it up. A thin atmosphere tainted with nitrides but not necessarily nitride-rich. People would have to wear total body coverings and air masks/respirators or vacc suits to go out. The houses would be sealed.

A guess I will have to re-write the scene where the guard is taking a leak on the tree.

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by ACK:
Nitride tainted is the way I will play and write it up. A thin atmosphere tainted with nitrides but not necessarily nitride-rich. People would have to wear total body coverings and air masks/respirators or vacc suits to go out. The houses would be sealed.

Isn't that sort of level of protection more indicative of a Type A (exotic) atmosphere, than a plain tainted one?

 

[ACK!!]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
Isn't that sort of level of protection more indicative of a Type A (exotic) atmosphere, than a plain tainted one?

Hhhhmm... nitrides sound awfully nasty and iritating when its tainting the atmosphere from your original description.

Maybe a bit too far. Ok.

However, the RICE papers talk about a thin atmosphere tainted with nitrides.

How is that supposed to play?

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by ACK:
However, the RICE papers talk about a thin atmosphere tainted with nitrides.

How is that supposed to play? [/QB]

If you want anything remotely realistic, it isn't.

I don't have a clue what these RICE papers are, but I suspect they're not canonical, in which case you can just change the taint to something else, can't you? (come to think of it, even if it is canonical you can change it to something else).

 

[ACK!!]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ACK:
However, the RICE papers talk about a thin atmosphere tainted with nitrides.

How is that supposed to play?

If you want anything remotely realistic, it isn't.

I don't have a clue what these RICE papers are, but I suspect they're not canonical, in which case you can just change the taint to something else, can't you? (come to think of it, even if it is canonical you can change it to something else). [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]I thought the RICE papers were considered part of canon now.

The RICE papers are from the Missouri Archives and are TNE Reform era works done by fans. Honestly, when I read your first description it did not sound that far from the condition of most young worlds.

The key for me is that you said it is the kind of compounds you find in volcanic plumes.

A thin atmosphere on a young planet, lots of volcanoes and plumes of volcanic gases to the point where the description thin (nitride tainted is warranted) the air is tainted enough that you want to wear a air/respirator to cut down on the irritation and keep your body covered. You can breath the stuff if you want inflamed mucous membranes blah...blah...

Tell me if I got it wrong.

I have to look up the original uwp to confirm the white dwarf and get the description for a cold gas giant ready because the system has one of those.

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by ACK:
I thought the RICE papers were considered part of canon now.

The RICE papers are from the Missouri Archives and are TNE Reform era works done by fans.

Nope. It's pretty clear from what authors have been saying that if it's not been published in an official Traveller hardcopy book, it ain't official canon. So HIWG isn't canon either - it's merely IMTU stuff. But AFAIK (unless MWM did specify otherwise somewhere), it's certainly unofficial and therefore ignorable - though again, just because something is canonical doesn't mean you have to follow it anyway.

Honestly, when I read your first description it did not sound that far from the condition of most young worlds.

The key for me is that you said it is the kind of compounds you find in volcanic plumes.

It's the sort of thing you find dissolved in volcanic LAVA -I'm not sure about the plumes. You find things like SO2 and SO3 (sulphur dioxide/trioxide) in plumes.

A thin atmosphere on a young planet, lots of volcanoes and plumes of volcanic gases to the point where the description thin (nitride tainted is warranted) the air is tainted enough that you want to wear a air/respirator to cut down on the irritation and keep your body covered. You can breath the stuff if you want inflamed mucous membranes blah...blah...
[/quote]

You can replace the nitrides with SO2 and have similar kind of effect (though without the body irritation, which is better for a tainted atmosphere anyway).

A young planet would be better though, yes - make it a couple of billion years old. Though then that might be a little early to have oxygen in the atmosphere, but you can terraform it perhaps.

 

[ACK!!]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
You can replace the nitrides with SO2 and have similar kind of effect (though without the body irritation, which is better for a tainted atmosphere anyway).

A young planet would be better though, yes - make it a couple of billion years old. Though then that might be a little early to have oxygen in the atmosphere, but you can terraform it perhaps.

I might better do that.

If its tainted with nitrides we are talking about a pretty explosive atmosphere shell. I hate to totally diss the RICE archives. Its ok if I am doing it just for my campaign but for a landgrab it might not be as kosher.

Ooops...

On edit, I find out that someone has already grabbed the Duale system in the great TML Landgrab.

Someone named Eberhard Schulz.

Anyone know who this guy is?