I wouldn't...
Anyone else burning with anticipation for the Darrian Book??
- Thread starter ThunderChilde
- Start date
I wouldn't...
Gallowglacht
SOC-12
*raises eyebrow*
Rebelion eh?, any possibility of a new era/ reformation coalition sourcebook at some stage over the course of your license?
I haven't bought into MGT yet, New Era stuff would do though.
OK, I know you aren't going to answer that, lets just put me down for a copy if/when it happens.
Rebelion eh?, any possibility of a new era/ reformation coalition sourcebook at some stage over the course of your license?
I haven't bought into MGT yet, New Era stuff would do though.
OK, I know you aren't going to answer that, lets just put me down for a copy if/when it happens.
The sense of entitlement that some Traveller fans have baffles me. I like GURPS, I'd even prefer it to the MGT rules if SJG would update it to GURPS 4e and GURPS 4e Spaceships, but I don't think MGT has any obligation to researching GURPS Traveller for their books. An MGT writer can use whatever he and Mongoose feels necessary for an MGT book and then it will be approved by Miller. If someone feels they could do better, then do what it takes to become an MGT author. Or, just use your "better ideas" in your MTU.
MGT is it's own game, based on Classic Traveller and approved by Miller - that's it. Matt's post says it all; if the Traveller you want has already been published then why are looking at new material? FFE is the source for Classic Traveller product - that's not Mongoose's job.
Matt is way more polite with this stuff than I would be. I would say, "I have the license to publish new Traveller material. Mark Miller approves what I publish. I love Traveller and am in the business of selling books. I hope you like my books and buy them, but I know that not everyone will like MGT. If you don't like MGT, I wish you good gaming with your preferred version of Traveller. Constructive criticism is helpful, but if your just an MGT hater and think you could do better - get a license from Marc Miller and publish your own books."
I don't have the patience to be in the service industry, if people are out of line I just tell them to F*** O**. Mongoose doesn't work for YOU, they make books and people buy them (or don't).
MongooseFordy
SOC-9
mbrinkhues
SOC-14 1K
@Amra
You are not totally right here. There is
a) MGT the rules engine.
That, like the T20, GT and TNE rules before, is independent of the universe.
b) The Original/Official Traveller Universe
That is an established franchise like David Webers Honorverse or Nivens Known Space. Currently Mongoose is the custodian of that universe and has an obligation to check any new additions they make against the established writing and make sure they fit into it. This is true in using a shared universe (those have a "writers bible") when you write novels and it's true for established SciFi universes.
c) Other materials based on the MGT rules engine
This include some established franchises (Judge Dread, Hammers Slammers) and can include completely new settings. This is actually a good example since the Hammers Slammers sourcebook stays completely within what has been established in writing for that universe. No big additions, no big changes (One piece of terran gear has the "may be new" feeling but even that fits in)
What the bible in b) is can be discussed. It surely includes the stuff from Classic Traveller and from some hints Matt dropped in this thread it might include the stuff from MegaTraveller and even TNE. Those three where written by GDW (or for GDW by DGP) so they should be in. The other stuff (T4 might be debatabel since it is Millers work) are not "core" canon so they can be ignored
And ultimately an RPG publisher IS in the service industrie. The company serves a relatively small audience (compared to novels) and feedback is important to see the direction your customers want rules and universe(s) to go. Ignore them and you loose customers and supporters. This is even more important for "old" systems where a certain amount of buyers is in the "collectors" segment rather than the players segment.
As an example the big german conventions this year had no Traveller so far and last year the only Traveller played at a big one (FeenCon/Bonn) was the official 13Mann support round. This is partially due to the fact that MGT hasn't taken off among those who used to play Traveller at conventions.
You are not totally right here. There is
a) MGT the rules engine.
That, like the T20, GT and TNE rules before, is independent of the universe.
b) The Original/Official Traveller Universe
That is an established franchise like David Webers Honorverse or Nivens Known Space. Currently Mongoose is the custodian of that universe and has an obligation to check any new additions they make against the established writing and make sure they fit into it. This is true in using a shared universe (those have a "writers bible") when you write novels and it's true for established SciFi universes.
c) Other materials based on the MGT rules engine
This include some established franchises (Judge Dread, Hammers Slammers) and can include completely new settings. This is actually a good example since the Hammers Slammers sourcebook stays completely within what has been established in writing for that universe. No big additions, no big changes (One piece of terran gear has the "may be new" feeling but even that fits in)
What the bible in b) is can be discussed. It surely includes the stuff from Classic Traveller and from some hints Matt dropped in this thread it might include the stuff from MegaTraveller and even TNE. Those three where written by GDW (or for GDW by DGP) so they should be in. The other stuff (T4 might be debatabel since it is Millers work) are not "core" canon so they can be ignored
And ultimately an RPG publisher IS in the service industrie. The company serves a relatively small audience (compared to novels) and feedback is important to see the direction your customers want rules and universe(s) to go. Ignore them and you loose customers and supporters. This is even more important for "old" systems where a certain amount of buyers is in the "collectors" segment rather than the players segment.
As an example the big german conventions this year had no Traveller so far and last year the only Traveller played at a big one (FeenCon/Bonn) was the official 13Mann support round. This is partially due to the fact that MGT hasn't taken off among those who used to play Traveller at conventions.
Well, there are different timelines in the OTU, and it would be interesting to explore at least some of them. It is certainly on the 'list of things to do', but there are no immediate plans.
Around the end of July. Final checks being made on it right now.
Actually, you can make it easier than that - canon is whatever Marc says it is. And if what he says ever changes, so be it (most settings could use a shake up now and again, and the OTU is probably overdue...).
I agree with Amra here. Traveller has just grown too big for any publisher to get a proper handle on the setting. A setting that even contradicts itself.
I think DGP wrote in one of their magazines that it would eventually lead to contradictory information.
There is two ways to handle this.
1) The first one was wrong, the latter is correct and the new reality.
2) Read the material as it is colored by a narator. That narator may have his/hers facts wrong or slightly colored. The next narator 30 years down the road are just no better, maybe a bit more informed, but still colored by his perception.
And before you bash me as a MgT fanboi. I don't have any MgT books other than the Vargr book. And I am unlikely to get others. I stay with TNE as game mechanic and use whatever setting which pleases me and my players.
I think DGP wrote in one of their magazines that it would eventually lead to contradictory information.
There is two ways to handle this.
1) The first one was wrong, the latter is correct and the new reality.
2) Read the material as it is colored by a narator. That narator may have his/hers facts wrong or slightly colored. The next narator 30 years down the road are just no better, maybe a bit more informed, but still colored by his perception.
And before you bash me as a MgT fanboi. I don't have any MgT books other than the Vargr book. And I am unlikely to get others. I stay with TNE as game mechanic and use whatever setting which pleases me and my players.
mbrinkhues
SOC-14 1K
The OTU could use some changes but WHAT changes it needs will be "three heads, four opinions" most likely. One can introduce new facts in an established universe (Bernhard Cornwell did for his "Sharps" settings) and change things (MegaTraveller did nicely with the "two encyclopedias") but it is not easy. After all quite a few people like "the setting" and not "da rules". I like some of the stuff MGT has done recently (Merchant Prince, Dilettant) and could use some stuff from others (Scouts, Agent/Scroundrel) but I still won't use the MGT rules system or chargen since there are better ones IMHO.
I don't think anyone has said Mongoose is obligated to reasearch the GURPS material, only that they should have. Which, by the way, sounds like constructive criticism to me. I'm not sure if you meant that bit about this or in general, but it seems rather excessive in this case to me. There is, as far as I know, no reason for Mongoose to not look at the GURPS material, and then use it if they like it, and not if they don't. Simply ignoring it just adds to the general confusion, IMHO. They do, however, have the right to not look at the GURPS stuff, but I don't think anyone has said they don't.
Moral or legal? I accept that Marc Miller has not made the GT material canon for Mongoose. I am of the personal opinion that this is a mistake, and I'm at a complete loss to understand why he didn't, but that's not a discussion that I think it would be fruitful to have with anyone but Marc Miller himself.
Because there's always a need for more material.
I have no desire to discuss what part of the GT writeup of the Darrians that might have made it into the MGT writeup if things has gone differently. As far as I'm concerned, it's a done deal. Too bad. Shed a tear and have a moment of silence to mourn a lost opportunity and then move on.
However, as the underlying issue is likely to crop up over and over again (for instance, when Mongoose turn their attention to the Sword Worlds), I've decided to ask this:
What would it have hurt to provide Pete Nash with a copy of the GT writeup? He might have looked at it and said "This bit is completely implausible; it's silly and self-contradictory, and if it had been canon, I would be petitioning Marc Miller to allow me to retcon it. As it is, I can just ignore it." Or he might have said "I suppose this bit does work, but I think my own idea is just a sliver of a smidgin better, so I'll use that." (Sure, I would have thought it was a deplorable attitude to take and I wouldn't be shy about expressing that opinion, but there's no denying he would have had every right to do so). Or, he might have said "Hey, this bit works fine. Why not use it?"
It's there. Why not use it if it works?
Hans
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It's that approach (That canon NEEDS change, rather than simply expansion and clarification) that comes across as disdain.
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mbrinkhues
SOC-14 1K
Oh, there are a quite a few thinks in canon that even as a fan of the OTU i see in need for change
+ X-Boat system and network
Either explain why it is still J4 and uses often illogical/slow routes or rework. Abandoned X-Stations and dropped routes can make adventure sources after all
+ Big/Small ship problem
Traveller started with 1200dton Cruisers. Then we got HG. Where do player ships fit in
+ Size of the 3I navy
One can interpret current canon as supporting a "big, strong" navy. That is bad for pirats, raiders and privateers. Kills quite a few scenarios. Re-Write the navy or at least how it works to allow for pirats
+ Imperial starports and COAAC
They actually contradict each other. 3I/starport says "Imperial trade regulations only" but COAAC says "we control ships on the way to port" (likely by local rules since they are local forces)
And there are more (Banking, Ruling of the 3I, Work of MegaCorps) that could need change or clarification.
+ X-Boat system and network
Either explain why it is still J4 and uses often illogical/slow routes or rework. Abandoned X-Stations and dropped routes can make adventure sources after all
+ Big/Small ship problem
Traveller started with 1200dton Cruisers. Then we got HG. Where do player ships fit in
+ Size of the 3I navy
One can interpret current canon as supporting a "big, strong" navy. That is bad for pirats, raiders and privateers. Kills quite a few scenarios. Re-Write the navy or at least how it works to allow for pirats
+ Imperial starports and COAAC
They actually contradict each other. 3I/starport says "Imperial trade regulations only" but COAAC says "we control ships on the way to port" (likely by local rules since they are local forces)
And there are more (Banking, Ruling of the 3I, Work of MegaCorps) that could need change or clarification.
Gallowglacht
SOC-12
See, I knew you wouldn't answer that. You never do
[which is actually OK. I remember being disapointed by the SST fleet book not showing up. Promise nothing deliver more is a better model]
ThunderChilde
SOC-13
The OTU has already been shaken into an early grave before. Rellion/Hard Times/Virus ring a bell?
Please, please tred lightly Matt. The changes so far have been fine, change for changes sake seldom ever comes out good.
Please, please tred lightly Matt. The changes so far have been fine, change for changes sake seldom ever comes out good.
mbrinkhues
SOC-14 1K
The OTU has been made useabel by the shakeup it got form Mega/HT. So let's empty the magazin and kill an emperor.
The OTU was and is perfectly useable before the Rebellion. Not that I'll argue against keeping the Rebellion in the timeline, any more than I'd argue against the Interstellar Wars, the Rule of Man, or the Long Night.
I do think that concentrating efforts on one setting is a Good Thing. A place like Charted Space is so vast that a thousand mon^h^h^h writers could wrtie about it for years and not exhaust its possibilities. My main objection to the Rebellion was that the publishers stopped writing material for my setting, not anything about the Rebellion per se.
I certainly don't object to writeups of other settings (I could scarcely do so, seeing as I've written several historical adventures and settings and am working on several more at the moment). Though from a purely pragmatic point of view (i.e. can I use it in my own personal campaign universe?) I do prefer solid historical settings to nebulous future might-but-probably-won't-bes (There's not going to be any Rebellion IMTU, I can tell you that for free).
Hans
dmccoy1693
SOC-13
Gentlemen, might I suggest we end this discussion train. You both just expressed your own personal opinions, neither of which are invalid. But all that is left to discuss is how one's opinion is right an the other's is wrong.
So can we get back to discussing the darrians book?
