Annoyed

[Colin]

I suspect this post won't last long...

I was just looking back through the work I had done for 2320AD. Two years later (well, 2-5 years later) there are things that I would change, but much that I would keep the same.

I really enjoyed being able to add to, and change, the 2300AD universe. While I will enjoy revisiting it with the Mongoose version, I won't be able to advance the setting in the same way, to truly make my mark on it. 2320AD was mine, my vision.

And my annoyance? It stems from the fact that 2320AD died stillborn, as a half-baked pdf. That the art and layout that many very talented people worked on (and were never paid) will never see the light of day, at least not in the intended context. It comes from never being able to hold the actual book in my hand, with my name on the cover. It flows from the ideas I had, the supplements, the adventures, that are lost with it.

I have tried to keep it going. Even recently, I offered Hunter a deal to buy-out 2320AD, so I could rework it and publish it through Mongoose's Flaming Cobra imprint, assuming I could get the rights issues worked out. And that was hardly the first time I made Hunter an offer. Never a response to any one them.

While I appreciate the opportunity Hunter gave me in being to write 2320AD at all, and I understand that a series of personal problems have kept him from fulfilling his obligations, I still find it all very aggravating.

 

[ben51]

It's OK Colin. Let it all out. And when you're done I have a Pentapod product that will make you as happy as a Kafer being stalked by a Predator.

Benjamin

 

[Colin]

I thought that it was all well and truly buried, but I've been looking through my 2320AD stuff as I prepare for Mongoose 2300AD. Bah.
I will rework the planned vehicle, equipment and ship books for MgT. There is plenty of scope for "newness" there. Not to mention the Atlas books, though they, too, have to toe the 2300AD line.
I just felt a need to vent today. Perhaps Hunter will even see this, and respond.

Even if it's just a PFO, some sort of response would be welcome.

 

[Border Reiver]

It is....a disappointing state of affairs.

 

[zonk]

You are going to be able to write for mongoose 2300AD?
I didn't know they were doing anything on it now.
What are the limitations?

I suspect this post won't last long...

I was just looking back through the work I had done for 2320AD. Two years later (well, 2-5 years later) there are things that I would change, but much that I would keep the same.

I really enjoyed being able to add to, and change, the 2300AD universe. While I will enjoy revisiting it with the Mongoose version, I won't be able to advance the setting in the same way, to truly make my mark on it. 2320AD was mine, my vision.

And my annoyance? It stems from the fact that 2320AD died stillborn, as a half-baked pdf. That the art and layout that many very talented people worked on (and were never paid) will never see the light of day, at least not in the intended context. It comes from never being able to hold the actual book in my hand, with my name on the cover. It flows from the ideas I had, the supplements, the adventures, that are lost with it.

I have tried to keep it going. Even recently, I offered Hunter a deal to buy-out 2320AD, so I could rework it and publish it through Mongoose's Flaming Cobra imprint, assuming I could get the rights issues worked out. And that was hardly the first time I made Hunter an offer. Never a response to any one them.

While I appreciate the opportunity Hunter gave me in being to write 2320AD at all, and I understand that a series of personal problems have kept him from fulfilling his obligations, I still find it all very aggravating.

 

[Colin]

You are going to be able to write for mongoose 2300AD?
I didn't know they were doing anything on it now.
What are the limitations?

That's the plan. It's 2300AD, not 2320AD, and that's the main limitation.

 

[far-trader]

Not to pick at the scabs Colin (I know how reminiscing over past projects lost can be) but couldn't/can't you use most of the creative work without the D20 bits for the MG version? Or, quite possibly, I'm missing something as I hadn't really been following it, 2300 never gelled for our group so I had only a passing interest. Even so I'd hate to see the entire work lost.

 

[Colin]

Everything in 2320AD, at least in the book (PDF!), was purchased by QLI as work-for-hire. That's why I've approached Hunter repeatedly about making a deal to get it back. With no response.

The rest of the stuff I have in notes I can, and will, use.

 

[mike wightman]

Couldn't you just play the great game again and produce a new timeline for 2300-2320?

Then use the stuff you do own to develop the setting from there.

It would actually give you the chance to re-think some of the T20-2320 backstory and perhaps improve on it (not saying there's anything wrong with your previous work).

Think of it as an opportunity to make a great piece of work into something even better

 

[ben51]

Personally, I'm glad its re-setting back to just plain 2300AD. I liked 2320, and having just reread the entire book I now like it even more. And though Colin handled the Kafer War about as best as possible it still feels somehow wrong. Having a an open ended, anything is possible threat along the French Arm is great for role-playing, and I found running Invasion to be the best RPG experience I've ever had. Except for the not so great Operation Overlord and a few Challenge articles the background came to a halt after the Battle of Beowulf. I liked that. I would rather see more background material than a never ending meta-plot that might not go in a direction of my liking.

I think Colin will do a great job reviving 2300AD. I just hope that Mongoose can get this published in a timely manner. I mean lets boot some of that Judge Dredd and fantasy stuff and get this ball rolling.

Benjamin

 

[Colin]

Having an open-ended threat is fine. Having a war is less so. It kinda makes any other campaign possibility seem like weak sauce. Are you going to explore ancient ruins on Daikokou, or defend Humanity from a raging genocidal threat..? Invasion was well-done, but overshadowed absolutely everything else in 2300AD.

2320AD was all about taking a step back from the war, still maintaining the Kafers as a threat, and a campaign possibility, but allowing other campaign types to become valid once more.

 

[mike wightman]

The other campaign types were always possible just poorly supported.

The provelutionists on the American/Chinese arm were always a favourite of mine.

T2300 going cyberpunk was poorly implemented IMHO - much more could have been made of their aforementioned threat.

Provelutionists vs kafer, now there's a thought

 

[ben51]

I agree. Traveller had source books on Mercs, Merchants, Scouts and others focusing on other campaign types. I'd like to see the same thing for 2300AD. These could tie into the different regions of human space but have a lot of overlap. As for the Invasion dominating the game, well that's pretty much like our history. World War II dominated the globe for six years. I think all big wars tend to produce a form of geopolitical tunnel vision.

I think, truth be told, my biggest problems with 2320AD had nothing to do with the work you did. I really dislike D20 and level based gaming and unfortunately, 2320AD died a sad death it certainly did not deserve. If it had been properly completed and then supported I could have overlooked D20 and just converted it to GURPS like I've done with some other games.

I truly hope your experience with Mongoose is much more enjoyable and productive.

Benjamin

 

[Colin]

Whatever one may think of the latest Indiana Jones movie, it did something interesting. During the Second World War, Indiana was no longer an archeologist/adventurer. He was a soldier and a spy. That's what big wars do, remove other possibilities, or make them unimportant. Personally, an Indiana Jones who is an archeologist/adventurer, who also fights Germans on the side, is more interesting to me than Indiana Jone the soldier, fighting Germans, with nothing on the side.

The movie wasn't about Indiana the soldier, but about Indiana the adventurer.

Similarly, a game world where Kafers are a nascent threat, but not involved in a genocidal war, is more interesting. Players can fight Kafers if they want, or explore ruins, infiltrate opposing corporations, explore new star systems, or fight nihilist terrorists. It keeps all possibilities open.

 

[scrabble]

Perhaps when QLI goes under, the rights will revert back to you?

Alternatively, is it possible to talk to Marc Miller? Does he not ultimately own the rights to the entire property? Could he not just take them from QLI and give them back to you?

 

[shanksow]

Just Catching Up With Things

Whatever one may think of the latest Indiana Jones movie, it did something interesting. During the Second World War, Indiana was no longer an archeologist/adventurer. He was a soldier and a spy. That's what big wars do, remove other possibilities, or make them unimportant. Personally, an Indiana Jones who is an archeologist/adventurer, who also fights Germans on the side, is more interesting to me than Indiana Jone the soldier, fighting Germans, with nothing on the side.

The movie wasn't about Indiana the soldier, but about Indiana the adventurer.

Similarly, a game world where Kafers are a nascent threat, but not involved in a genocidal war, is more interesting. Players can fight Kafers if they want, or explore ruins, infiltrate opposing corporations, explore new star systems, or fight nihilist terrorists. It keeps all possibilities open.

2300AD over at Mongoose huh? Well, whatever happens - Good Luck with it.

Now off topic- That is a good observation about Indiana Jones. I personally would like to see a tv series dealing with Indy and Mac in WW2 the same way that "Young Indiana Jones" was done.

I now return you to your regular network channel..

 

[Colin]

Perhaps when QLI goes under, the rights will revert back to you?

Alternatively, is it possible to talk to Marc Miller? Does he not ultimately own the rights to the entire property? Could he not just take them from QLI and give them back to you?

Marc owns the rights to 2300AD, and the publishing rights to any related property. That doesn't give him ownership of related property, just the right to determine who can publish it.

As work for hire, I have no rights to it. I was paid, and there went my rights. Now, the contract has a proviso for me to be paid an additional amount based on print sales, and I had an agreement with Hunter that that would also apply to PDF sales, and from that I haven't seen a cent. So I could make a case on that basis, but with Hunter in Alabama, and me in British Columbia, it would be too much of a pain.

 

[scrabble]

As work for hire, I have no rights to it. I was paid, and there went my rights.

Did it state in your contract that you were required to hand over the rights to 2320AD in perpetuity, or just the rights to be the first to publish it? If the latter (or if it was not clearly specified either way), then perhaps you are clear to go ahead and republish 2320AD via Mongoose.

Now, the contract has a proviso for me to be paid an additional amount based on print sales, and I had an agreement with Hunter that that would also apply to PDF sales, and from that I haven't seen a cent. So I could make a case on that basis, but with Hunter in Alabama, and me in British Columbia, it would be too much of a pain.

Understandable, but it seems that Mr Gordon has made a habit of not paying his contributors the money that they are owed (e.g. Martin J Dougherty). Why this is allowed or tolerated is beyond my comprehension.

 

[Peter Schutze]

>Couldn't you just play the great game again and produce a new timeline for 2300-2320?

Something I've been working towards being able to do for a 2300>CT hybrid for many years

The basic idea was to start with countries values based on 2005 GDP and Population figures and move forwards from there starting with ramping up for moon and mars missions / colonisation
Some time around 2070 (depending on how much space develops) players will be able to build unmanned probes barely capable of FTL and then let the race for the stars begin

 

[rancke]

Whatever one may think of the latest Indiana Jones movie, it did something interesting. During the Second World War, Indiana was no longer an archeologist/adventurer. He was a soldier and a spy. That's what big wars do, remove other possibilities, or make them unimportant. Personally, an Indiana Jones who is an archeologist/adventurer, who also fights Germans on the side, is more interesting to me than Indiana Jone the soldier, fighting Germans, with nothing on the side.

I know just what you mean. I'm runnning a Space:1889 campaign based on Beastmen of Mars at the moment, and I'm having a bit of trouble believing that a bunch of brave British explorers are going gallivanting off into the desert while the Oenotrian War is just getting heated. In the end I've confined myself to pointing out to the player with the ex-enlisted soldier Irishman that if the English authorities ever become aware of his existence, he's going to be drafted so fast his feet won't touch the ground. The younger son of the Earl of Barchester won't be drafted, of course, but he might find some white feathers in his bedroll.


Hans