ANNIC NOVA: Balance of Power Shift?

[graymask1120]

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere.

So, I'm rereading AN the other week, as there's something about it that bugs me, but I don't know what.

Then I find it: no LHy in the drive, and no fuel tankage...My brain working the way it does, I start thinking:

*If the AN uses a capacitor bank to run its Jump drive, and all it needs is energy, and based on the apparent dimensions of the drive unit and capacitor bank on the deckplans -- why not install multiple J-Drive/Capacitor bank units?

*Doing so would allow a ship with three separate J-3 drive units (for ex) to make three consecutive J3's(9 parsecs, total) in a little over 3 weeks before needing to recharge.

All that is required is that the ship much have c.3-4 weeks of consumables aboard.

The only unkown is whether the capacitors can hold the charge for that length of time.

....."Suppressed Technology"© anyone? I wonder what the Zho's would pay for that?

 

[aramis]

AN is the best argument against "Hydrogen Bubbles" put forth to explain the fuel usage.

 

[graymask1120]

I always disliked that explanation. I was willing to accept the fuel-guzzling option, but the whole "bubble" idea just sounded too far out.

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by Aramis:
AN is the best argument against "Hydrogen Bubbles" put forth to explain the fuel usage.

Aramis,

I never liked certain aspects of the hydrogen bubble idea too, especially the DGP-inspired nonsese about thousands of tiny parts in a hull grid squirting out hydrogen around the ship.

IMTU there is a hydrogen bubble of sorts. A ship's jump drive 'injects' a 'modified' version of hydrogen into the proper jump space dimension to form a 'blister' or 'bubble' or 'buboe' that 'ruptures' into normal space and then swallows up the ship.

As for Annic Nova, I only ran it twice and then heavily modified. AN is the first adventure after all, like Leviathan it's ur-Traveller. It simply doesn't 'fit' into later CT canon.

IMTU I never really tackled AN's drives but IMTU, as in canon, there are different ways to 'skin' the jump 'cat'. The jump drive in the rules is just the bog standard jump drive used by 99.99999% of vessels. To use a poor analogy, it's 'Windows' and some people do use Mac and Linux and others. We know about differing fuel requirements; i.e. the early Terran 'fuel hog' drive. We know about diffeent material requirments; i.e. the early Vargr 'barium' drive. We even 'know' about fuelless drives; i.e. there is nothing in canon that says the early Hiver 'meltdown' drive used fuel and the Sparklers use a psionic-based drive.

Annic Nova's drives are just another way to jump. Some aspect about them doesn't measure up well against the bog standard jump drive. Perhaps they need more 'tuning' between jumps. Perhaps they can't use jump governors so the same energy charge is always required. Perhaps there are mental or physical side effects. Who knows? The drive works, it just isn't preferred over the standard drive for whatever reason might work in YTU.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[parmasson]

I like Bill’s solution. Call the A.N. differently “teched”
Or we can call it TL-X

Unknown technology. Perhaps really high perhaps not.

Point is that repairs will be nearly impossible and just learning to operate the machine will be tough. Computers will not accept Imperial Standard software and the like. Hmmm story ideas . . .

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:
I never liked certain aspects of the hydrogen bubble idea too, especially the DGP-inspired nonsese about thousands of tiny parts in a hull grid squirting out hydrogen around the ship.

Bill, just FYI. The SOM doesn't speak to the jump bubble being created by hydrogen. It's not a plasma bubble. It's an energy bubble (electro-magnetic and graviton energy).

 

[Laryssa]

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Aramis:
AN is the best argument against "Hydrogen Bubbles" put forth to explain the fuel usage.

Aramis,

I never liked certain aspects of the hydrogen bubble idea too, especially the DGP-inspired nonsese about thousands of tiny parts in a hull grid squirting out hydrogen around the ship.

IMTU there is a hydrogen bubble of sorts. A ship's jump drive 'injects' a 'modified' version of hydrogen into the proper jump space dimension to form a 'blister' or 'bubble' or 'buboe' that 'ruptures' into normal space and then swallows up the ship.

As for Annic Nova, I only ran it twice and then heavily modified. AN is the first adventure after all, like Leviathan it's ur-Traveller. It simply doesn't 'fit' into later CT canon.

IMTU I never really tackled AN's drives but IMTU, as in canon, there are different ways to 'skin' the jump 'cat'. The jump drive in the rules is just the bog standard jump drive used by 99.99999% of vessels. To use a poor analogy, it's 'Windows' and some people do use Mac and Linux and others. We know about differing fuel requirements; i.e. the early Terran 'fuel hog' drive. We know about diffeent material requirments; i.e. the early Vargr 'barium' drive. We even 'know' about fuelless drives; i.e. there is nothing in canon that says the early Hiver 'meltdown' drive used fuel and the Sparklers use a psionic-based drive.

Annic Nova's drives are just another way to jump. Some aspect about them doesn't measure up well against the bog standard jump drive. Perhaps they need more 'tuning' between jumps. Perhaps they can't use jump governors so the same energy charge is always required. Perhaps there are mental or physical side effects. Who knows? The drive works, it just isn't preferred over the standard drive for whatever reason might work in YTU.


Have fun,
Bill </font>[/QUOTE]maybe the Vilani were up to something, they created a new Jump technology, and they didn't tell the Third Imperium about it, that's why it always ran away when encountered, then some disease finally killed the ship's crew while they were in jump space. The Ship's autopilot took over when the ANNIC NOVA precipitated into normal space and inserted the starship into orbit around the nearest Gas Giant. the secret has to do with virtual matter. Maybe the jump drive extracts vitual protons from the quantum foam by isolating their negative counter parts. Perhaps the negative matter twins of the protons are stored somewhere inside the unorthadox Jump Drives. Now negative matter has negative momentum, perhaps like charges attract with the negative matter protons and the clump into a ball inside the jump drive. The ball is discharged when the ship emerges from jump space.

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by WJP:
Bill, just FYI. The SOM doesn't speak to the jump bubble being created by hydrogen.

WJP,

Just FYI, read what I actually wrote.

I wrote "DGP-INSPRIRED. Not "DGP said this" or "DGP said that", but "DGP-inspired" as in "DGP's work in SOM inspired the idea of a bubble that many people in the hobby now use feel is a hydrogen bubble."

Getting back on topic...

Annic Nova uses a different type of jump drive. We know there are different ways to 'skin' the jump 'cat' because canon gives us a few examples. AN uses a jump drive that is simply non-standard.

Why it 'lost out' to the standard jump drive is unknown but we've pletny of Real World examples of 'duels' between technologies of somewhat equal promise in which the loser all but disappears from the scene. ForEx: before we all switched to DVD players, how many of you had a Betamax VCR?

Because the 'flaws' AN's jump drive has compared to standard jump drive are not detailed, we all can make up whatever 'flaws' suit out personal TUs the best.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[DaveChase]

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:
Getting back on topic...

Annic Nova uses a different type of jump drive. We know there are different ways to 'skin' the jump 'cat' because canon gives us a few examples. AN uses a jump drive that is simply non-standard.

Why it 'lost out' to the standard jump drive is unknown but we've pletny of Real World examples of 'duels' between technologies of somewhat equal promise in which the loser all but disappears from the scene. ForEx: before we all switched to DVD players, how many of you had a Betamax VCR?

Because the 'flaws' AN's jump drive has compared to standard jump drive are not detailed, we all can make up whatever 'flaws' suit out personal TUs the best.


Have fun,
Bill

I consider the drives a different tech. Human nature makes us compare something new to something that we know.

First there was cannons and mortars then first hand held blackpowder weapon it was called a hand cannon not a rifle or pistol

I would suggest to consider the AN drive a different tech and possibly TL17 ie. if they need to fix it you now have a TL difference of at least 2 higher and alien/unknown tech so it is hard. You better treat AN well, of course some people like abuse and some people like cuddling, so what actually does AN drive need in regular maintanence.

Dave Chase

 

[Laryssa]

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by WJP:
Bill, just FYI. The SOM doesn't speak to the jump bubble being created by hydrogen.

WJP,

Just FYI, read what I actually wrote.

I wrote "DGP-INSPRIRED. Not "DGP said this" or "DGP said that", but "DGP-inspired" as in "DGP's work in SOM inspired the idea of a bubble that many people in the hobby now use feel is a hydrogen bubble."

Getting back on topic...

Annic Nova uses a different type of jump drive. We know there are different ways to 'skin' the jump 'cat' because canon gives us a few examples. AN uses a jump drive that is simply non-standard.

Why it 'lost out' to the standard jump drive is unknown but we've pletny of Real World examples of 'duels' between technologies of somewhat equal promise in which the loser all but disappears from the scene. ForEx: before we all switched to DVD players, how many of you had a Betamax VCR?

Because the 'flaws' AN's jump drive has compared to standard jump drive are not detailed, we all can make up whatever 'flaws' suit out personal TUs the best.


Have fun,
Bill </font>[/QUOTE]Maybe the flaws are what killed the crew. Maybe the drive is unsafe for living creatures, oh it works a few times, but there are certain radiations in jump space that a hydrogen jump bubble protects the crew from. Hydrogen is a good shield against cosmic rays for instance, as hydrogen consists of protons and when cosmic rays hit protons no secondary particals are fissioned off as there would be if cosmic rays hit lead for instance. This property of hydrogen may be why it is useful in standard jump drives, it maybe that jump drives work without hydrogen, its just that the crew arrives dead. Maybe Annic Nova found a way to create a shield against Jump Space radiation that doesn't involved hydrogen, maybe it involves some thing like a magnetic field instead. The magnetic field works most of the time, but perhaps not as reliably as a hydrogen bubble, and perhaps the crew survives a number of jumps, but over time their radiation exposure accumulates and eventually the get sick and die. Perhaps that could be the new reason why the PCs find the ANNIC NOVA derelict andf its crew dead. The drive is basically experimental, and the crew onboard was basically using themselves as guinea pigs or perhaps they didn't realize the danger as they survived the first few jumps ok. The company that makes it keeps the project a secret to protect it from the prying corporate eyes of their compeditors. Unfortunately their testing with animals wasn't rigorous enough and they started testing it with a human crew way too soon. The Adventure in the Classic Short Adventure's book can pretty much be used they way it is in the book under this assumption, its just that the cause of the crew's death is different. If the PCs are smart they will investigate what killed the crew first before the salvage and claim the ship. the fact that it uses a non-standard and apparently experimental jump drive should give them pause. If they take the ANNIC NOVA in for servicing, they find that nobody they know knows anything about the type of engine it has. of course their will be other corporate and national eyes that will be very interested in how it works. The PCs might meet up with agents of various powers some friendly who will offer money for it and others more inclined to steal and perhaps eliminate witnesses. There are alot of possible adventure seeds arising out of this experimental starship.

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by Laryssa:
Maybe the flaws are what killed the crew. Maybe the drive is unsafe for living creatures, oh it works a few times, but there are certain radiations in jump space that a hydrogen jump bubble protects the crew from.

Tom,

That's a very good idea.

The drive could be deadly over time slowly killing the crew with each jump. Your 'jump radiation' idea could work that way.

The drive could also be 'immediately' deadly killing the crew instantly but only during a very low percentage of jumps. Imagine a drive that kills only 1% of the time or only 0.1% or 0.001%? With a low percentage how long would it take before the link beween jumping and death was made?

There are alot of possible adventure seeds arising out of this experimental starship.

You can say that again!

There are alot of possible adventure seeds arising out of this experimental starship.

Hey, wait a minute!


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Laryssa]

I've tried to create T20 stats for the ANNIC NOVA, but the numbers just don't add up when using T20 rules. For one thing the Pinnace is described as having a 12 ton cargo area, the standard Pinnace has 5. Also you get into the question of how maneuver drives work, in T20 there are 6 kinds of maneuver drives ranging from 1-G to 6-G. Perhaps Traveller Maneuver drives don't produce thrust like a rocket does. If it did, then 2 50-ton pinnaces with 6-G acceleration could accelerate 600-ton ANNIC NOVA at 1-G. One the other hand if maneuver drives pushed on a volume of space rather than on an object, perhaps you could fit an entire 1-G maneuver drive on a single Pinnace, this pinnace would push not only itself at 1-G but also 550 tons of displacement space besides itself. Everything within that volume would feel no acceleration as it accelerated at 1-G.

 

[Antony]

I did a TNE conversion of the Annic Nova some time ago which may give you some ideas for your own conversions. My version you can find at
www.skaran.net/banners/equipment/Craft/Imperial/anicnova.html

 

[jfetters]

Cool, thanks for the link Antony!! I am mainly glad to see that someone else did the Lightning class cruiser to the FFS1 specs so I didn't have to.

I still may, however, so that the design doesn't use HePLaR drives.

 

[Laryssa]

Not a T20 conversion I can see. My ideas are to make the pinnaces into 50-to pinnaces. That way, the pinnaces require 1 drive unit each and the ANNIC NOVA requires 12 Drive Units with the pinnaces attached. I want to keep the cargo capacity the same as in the original source material.

So 1 drive unit of 6-G Maneuver drive should give each pinnace 6-G of accelleration, while if they are attached to the ANNIC NOVA the combined thrust of both pinnaces should give the ship 1-G of acceleration, as ANNIC NOVA requires 12 units of 6-G maneuver drive to get 6-G accelleration, by installing only 1/6 of that you get only 1-G.

As for how to use the ANNIC NOVA, I'd say install some weapons in the Pinnaces if possible. One will need to stick around the mothership to protect it while the other is in the surface.

One idea on how the drive works is maybe its not a jump drive at all, so it doesn't require hydrogen. What if it was instead a warp drive, though not the Star Trek kind.

You set the warp trajectory, you create the warp bubble set it for a specific direction and speed, and the ship is basically stuck inside the warp bubble until it naturally decays or it hits a significant gravitational well. Nothing inside the warp bubble can shut it off.

A warp 2 field will carry the ship 2 parsecs in one week before it naturally decays and releases the starship.

A Warp 3 field will carry the ship 3 parsecs in one week before it naturally decays and releases the starship.

The starship cannot see the outside universe when its in warp, so to the occupants of the starship it might as well be a jump drive.

Those outside the warp field see nothing until it passes at faster than the speed of light, then they see a receding warp signature singularity.

Basicall the warp field works by compressing space in front of it and expanding space behind it. When the space in front of the starship is compressed, it brings the interstellar hydrogen molecules together, fusing them and releasing energy in the form of gamma rays, and highly charged particals. That is the warp signature outsiders see once the warp ship passes. By studying the warp signature, others can determine exactly where the warp ship is going and when exactly the warp field will decay.

The warp field decays after 1 week after it delivers the ship the stated distance. 1 parsec, 2 parsecs, 3 parsecs etc., the only exception to this rule is when it hits an intervening gravity well, in which case the warp field collapses immediately, and that could be after only 1 day and with 1/7 the journey crossed. Of course if you try to do this, you have to aim very carefully, as if you miss, the ship will continue off in a straight line until its warp field decays.

There is no turning or changing of course while warp drive is engaged. The ship is at the mercy of the initial warp field calculation.

 

[Antony]

Something that was discussed about the Annic Nova the last time this vessel came up. The technology on the small craft does not match up with that of the ship either. For example the small craft have fusion power plants the Annic Nova is battery powered. The computers on the Annic Nova are three times the mass of the standard model, the systems on the small craft are imperial standard.

I concluded that these craft were likely not the originals. The Annic Nova also has provision to dock three craft but has only two etc. All in all though she is a very interesting "ghost" ship.

 

[Scarecrow]

The biggest problem with the Annic Nova for me (aside from being a bloody awful design) was that it's stats and deckplans were quite clearly extrapolated from an original drawing rather than being designed as a whole. It doesn't help that that drawing (on the cover) was upside down. Hence what are clearly meant to be Enterprise style drives become launches with absurd access corridors amongst other things.
I did like the whole batwing solar sail affair and the concept of the mysterious alien craft is always a winner but the ship itself needed a lot more work.

Crow

 

[Laryssa]

The lack of Jump fuel gives it a compedative advantage with other Free Traders, and it has some huge workshops for building stuff, way bigger than the standard engineering worshops listed in the T20 book. Such a nice space dungeon, maybe some greater challenge should go in its rooms. I'm making the T20 stats for ANNIC NOVA as I see it. Since the Jump Drives are not standard and don't require fuel, maybe I should called them "Jump Drives", meaning that the players are never sure precisely what they are. They know that they are some sort of FTL drive and it can get them somewhere up to 3 parsecs distant in 1 week, but I thought it would be interesting if they weren't quite Jump Drives.

What if as soon as they enter normal space their sensors detect a gamma ray source moving rapidly away from them at the speed of light in the direction they came from? What if that happens every time they drop back into normal space from their FTL drive, and it doesn't happen with other jump drive ships? That source is the ship's Warp signature and it is simply the light catching up with them when they drop back into normal space. Otherwise the ANNIC NOVA behaves just like other starships, except people start noticing these unusual phenomina everytime the ANNIC NOVA enters and leaves a system? There is also the matter of the ship having 2 "jump drives", there is really no reason for a starship to have two "jump drives", A jump-3 drive can also do a jump-2 or a jump-1. The fact that the ANNIC NOVA has two "Jump Drives" seems to be an indicator that these "Jump Drives" are not so reliable and the ship is in need of a spare should some thing go wrong. Also why is the ship so unfamiliar to the PCs? Have there been no other's of its kind ever built? There is in addition an alien currency found onboard, what if that currency doesn't match anyworld in known space? Also why would the ship bring a local currency along rather than an international currency that would be more useful to the crew considering where the ANNIC NOVA was found? It would seem to me that the crew would more likely bring a currency that would be more universally accepted throughout space, such as the Imperial Credit. Most worlds would not reocognize this alien currency if the PCs don't, and since the currency is not recognized, no one would know its value and hence not accept it.

Also the ship's computer is larger than it needs to be, maybe it has some additional functions besides the standard ship functions, which the PCs know nothing about.

The language is Vilani, and the ship has a number instead of a name, which is standard Vilani practice, but the Vilani are a fairly common race in charted space. If the ANNIC NOVA was standard Vilani technology, the PCs would likely have seen others of its kind, but instead according to the ship's description the PCs are unfamiliar with it.

What if the ANNIC NOVA came from an alternate reality, a universe where history went different and a different type of FTL drive were developed instead of the Jump Drive?. Now once an FTL drive is developed, there is an incentive simply to copy it rather than to create a completely different FTL drive. What if the ANNIC NOVA comes from a different Universe, one where the First Imperium never fell? Maybe this ship's "Jump Drive" has something to do with it being here.

 

[Hyphen]

Originally posted by Laryssa:
What if the ANNIC NOVA came from an alternate reality...

Nice take on the 'Nova.

My thought were always "hand-built" by "proto-Droyne" [meta-game concept]. This covers the weirdness you mentioned while explaining its small size, etc. The meta-game element is the possibility that the Droyne had not yet been completely thought out at this point.

Anyway, here's a whole batch of old TML posts on the topic...
CANON PROBLEM 4: The Annic Nova Backstory

Plus some pics at Sean Patrick Kennedy's site. (Hey, Scarecrow, here's a ready-made mesh... )

 

[Laryssa]

The ANNIC NOVA doesn't seem to belong here, that is the mystery. The biggest mystery of all would be the unknown currency found that doesn't seem to be accepted anywhere in the Spinward Marches, if it were the PCs would recognize it. The PCs could not spend it if no one recognizes it, so supposedly the ship's crew would not bring money they could not spend if they intended to be here at all. Also why are they all bald and hairless?

Alot of good theorizing there on the Cannon problem. Its hard to believe that someone could make a unique starship and then invent a build a new Jump Drive though. Plague seems to be the cause of death, maybe these humanoids had a poor immune system.