An "Old" new start. part 2

[Cryton]

In keeping with what has been said about the 3I in CT books 4 and 5, and my making MTU "proto-Traveller"

see http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=25867

I have decided to do the following where it concerns the 3I nobility and their powers IMTU. Also I am putting down how I am handling a few other "small" issues.

Imperial Nobles and Local Government.

3I Nobles are almost never a part of the local worlds government. I say almost, because it can and does occasionally happen.

A 3I Noble has the following responsibilities and powers:

1. Represent the 3I to the local world Government(s) that they are assigned to.

2. Ensure that the Worlds Government(s) that they are assigned to follows 3I laws and regulations.

3. Ensure that the Worlds Government(s) that they are assigned to pay their taxes to the 3I.

4. Cast votes in the Moot to recognize a new Emperor, or to disband the Imperium.

This makes a 3I Noble something of a diplomat and watchdog. Other than tax collection and enforcing the few Laws and regulations that the 3I requires, the worlds local Government(s) and the worlds peoples are left entirely to their own devices, free from Imperial meddling.

Should a violation of Imperial regulations or Law occur, It is up to the Noble in question to decide if diplomacy can handle the situation, to outsource it to "adventurers", or to call in Imperial forces to put a halt to the infractions and punish those responsible for it. Calling in the military is NOT done lightly as the infraction will be dealt with using overwhelming force and severity.

Imperial Properties

Every member world in the 3I has at least two locations that are considered 3I sovereign territory and extra-territoriality applies. The Starport, and a Imperial Nobles Fief(s).

Imperial sovereign territories are normally LL 3 to 4.

Starports (which include any attendant Naval or Scout bases the world may have) are maintained at at a minimum of TL 12, or the worlds local TL, which ever is higher, by the 3I. The quality of the Starport will vary depending on it classification, but the tech used by its attendant personnel will be at least Imperial average.

Defense of the Starport and its grounds falls to the Imperial Marines, and is commonly called Garrison Duty. This can range from the 9 man unit guarding a D class facility, to the Platoon(s) stationed at a Class A facility.

Starport, Navy and Scout Bases personnel are not counted towards the worlds population.

A Nobles fief is likewise maintained at least to the same Tech level as the Imperial Starport. The fiefs defense, if it is a separate location from the grounds of the worlds Starport, fall to the Nobles Huscarles. As a Nobles fief is often a source of income and wealth for the Noble, it is usually as well defended as the Noble can afford. The worlds Imperial Starport and its grounds are always a part of the fief of the worlds leading Imperial Noble.

As a side note, there may be other Starports on a world that are NOT Imperial, but rather possessions of the local Governments. They will be maintained at the local TL, and subject to all local laws of the world including the worlds full law level.

Imperial Military

The Imperial Military consists of the Imperial Navy, Imperial Marines, and The Imperial Interstellar Scout Service. There is no Imperial Army to speak of IMTU, though a Nobles Huscarles generally fit that description.

The basic and initial technical training of Imperial Naval and Marine Personnel is done at the Sector Depot, with Naval bases handling any additional career training required by Navy or Marine personnel.

IISS basic and initial technical training is done at Scout Way Stations. With Scout bases handling any additional training during the Scouts career.

The Imperial Navys, Marines, IISS jurisdiction ends outside of the Starport grounds, off of a Nobles Fief, or within 10D from a Planets surface. They can however, respond to any Mayday from ships inside the 10D limit, and will always assist the local Governments when asked. The exception to this is when they are called in to take care of an Imperial Laws or Regulations violation, when they will go where they need to go to, and do what they need to do to handle the situation, woe be to those who try to stop them.

Imperial Bureaucracy

Imperial Bureaucracy concerns itself primarily with two things: the running of Imperial Starports (Administrators), and the support of the Nobles in their duties (Diplomats).

The exceptions to these duties are at the Sector level and Domain levels, and at Capital they assist the Sector Dukes, Arch Dukes and the Emperor with their additional duties (both Administrators and Diplomats), and run the various Imperial Governmental Offices.

The various departments of the Imperial Bureaucracy are Headquartered at Capital, With Major offices at Sector and Sub-sector capitals, and with branch offices in all Imperial Starports. In the cases of the smaller Starports (class D and some class C), the duties of these offices may all fall to the same office or in some cases, individual.

Imperial bureaucracy training is handled at class A, B and C class starports.

 

[Timerover51]

I assume, as you are the Super-Moderator, that this

"Old" new start, part 2

has the force of new standard rules, and that all discussions are to reflect this?

 

[Cryton]

I assume, as you are the Super-Moderator, that this
has the force of new standard rules, and that all discussions are to reflect this?

Nope just another player yammering on about MTU and looking for input. :rofl:

The link is to the old, and really LONG thread that led up to this.

 

[Limburger59]

Reading your musings reminds me of Dominic Flandry's universe. There would be a lot more allegiance to one's planet, than to the 3I.

 

[Cryton]

Reading your musings reminds me of Dominic Flandry's universe. There would be a lot more allegiance to one's planet, than to the 3I.

Never had that comparison before. Interesting.

I also imagine you are correct, for the lower levels of the nobility who are only responsible for a single world. I don't see attachments happening as much to those Nobles with several worlds that they are responsible to and for.

~Rich

 

[Cryton]

More decisions made for my "Proto-Traveller" universe.

Small Ship Universe

My Traveller Universe is a small ship universe, with the cap on starship tonnage set at 5,000 DTons for now. This makes the Leviathan class worthy of its name, and the Kinunir a cruiser worthy of respect.

I'm choosing this because I feel it fits the "feel" of a "proto" Traveller game better than a Large Ship Universe, I feel that a small ship universe is by far more realistic, and it will also be far easier to design ships for.

Starport Populations

As I mentioned in my previous post, Starport and Base personnel are not counted towards the planets population. This is due to it being considered a duty station, and that the personnel are counted as population for the world of their birth or the world of permanent residence.

I have set the personnel numbers for the various starport classes as follows:

Class A: 1000-2000 personnel, plus an additional 500-1000 if an orbital facility is present. Protection is provided by a Battalion of Imperial Marines

Class B: 300-1000 personnel, plus an additional 100-500 if an orbital facility is present. Protection is provided by a company of 175-200 Imperial Marines.

Class C: 100-200 personnel. The Marine Garrison is usually a Platoon of 35-40 Imperial Marines.

Class D: 20-30 personnel, with a garrison of 11 Imperial Marines.

Class E: This is a bare patch of land with a Imperial Beacon marking it. Any personnel here will be staff working directly for the Imperial Noble assigned to the world.

Class X: There is no Imperial starport or presence on the world.

It should be noted, that all starports of Class D or better will have at least one member of the Imperial Navy stationed at the starport, who will act as Liaison for the Imperial Navy and recruiter for the world. Likewise there will be at least one Scout, who runs the "post office".

Outside of the 3I, starport TL will match that of the world they are on, though they will have similar populations and security detachments. In the larger polities, things will be set up in a similar fashion to the Imperial model

Military Base Populations

As for the populations of an Imperial Navy base, Depot, Imperial Scout Base or Way Station, I have idea of what to place their populations at. Anyone have suggestions?

 

[Timerover51]

Nope just another player yammering on about MTU and looking for input. :rofl:

The link is to the old, and really LONG thread that led up to this.

fine, and as I have discovered that disagreeing with moderator comments is a very bad thing to do, I will march to my own bagpipes.

 

[atpollard]

I always got the feeling reading the Traveller color text that one can't swing a dead cat in the Imperium without hitting a 'noble'.

The closest real world parallel that I was aware of (a statement that means almost nothing), was the German 'princes' and 'nobility' of the Holy Roman Empire where being a noble was almost synonymous with being a government clerk of some type. So that always colored my view of Traveller nobility.

Beyond that, a common Traveller trope is that the Imperium protects trade (the Megacorporations) and that the MOOT is comprised of the Board of Directors of the Megacorporations ... sort of a United Nations comprised of Fortune 500 Companies rather than nations [shudders].

As such, Traveller nobility should be very attentive and active in local planetary politics since it will directly impact his/her corporate interests on that world. I agree that a noble directly governing a world would be the exception for a non-aristocratic world government, but I would imagine a dominant shareholder in a corporation that controls 60% of the worlds GDP would function as a 'king maker' behind the scenes.

The Imperium has an actual Illuminati overseeing its member world governments ... the Traveller Nobility ... the Far Future 1% (wealth and influence reference - not a real world political statement).

 

[BlackBat242]

Exactly. The 3I is a "Government type 3/1".

A Self-perpetuating Oligarchy drawn from Corporate leadership.

It also has undertones of 8 (Civil Service Bureaucracy) and 9 (Impersonal Bureaucracy).

 

[Cryton]

Exactly. The 3I is a "Government type 3/1".

A Self-perpetuating Oligarchy drawn from Corporate leadership.

It also has undertones of 8 (Civil Service Bureaucracy) and 9 (Impersonal Bureaucracy).

Personally, while it has all those trappings, I consider the 3I to be type 10(A) Charismatic Dictatorship as the Emperor rules by Proclamation. When he does say "This is how it will be", that is how it is, and no one argues.

 

[rancke]

I always got the feeling reading the Traveller color text that one can't swing a dead cat in the Imperium without hitting a 'noble'.

That's selection bias and the failure of Traveller writers to realize just how rare Imperial nobles would be. The lack of room for planetary nobles between the upper middle class and the Imperial nobility on the social scale didn't help, as it caused writers to use Imperial nobles where planetary nobles would have been more appropriate. Nobles are cool and if you don't have planetary nobles you can use, you use the Imperial nobles you have.

GT:Nobles puts the number of Imperial barons on a world at up to one per 250 million (meaning that there could be fewer than that for less important worlds).

Beyond that, a common Traveller trope is that the Imperium protects trade (the Megacorporations) and that the MOOT is comprised of the Board of Directors of the Megacorporations ... sort of a United Nations comprised of Fortune 500 Companies rather than nations [shudders].

A common Traveller trope is the Imperium interfering with megacorporate and corporate shenanigans to protect member worlds, forcing corporations to act through local catspaws.


Hans

 

[Spinward Scout]

I always got the feeling reading the Traveller color text that one can't swing a dead cat in the Imperium without hitting a 'noble'.

Which is why dead cat swinging is illegal on most Imperial worlds.

 

[aramis]

Which is why dead cat swinging is illegal on most Imperial worlds.

o:
LOL :rofl::rofl:

 

[BlackBat242]

Personally, while it has all those trappings, I consider the 3I to be type 10(A) Charismatic Dictatorship as the Emperor rules by Proclamation. When he does say "This is how it will be", that is how it is, and no one argues.

But how much actual Proclamation-making does the Emperor actually do... and how much influence does the Moot have over what the Emperor Proclaims?

Remember, he can only make decisions based on what information is allowed to reach him... and this is where the Moot has great influence, both filtering and "adjusting" the information that reaches the Emperor. Then they "advise" him on what they think he should Say.

There is no way he can actually directly run an Imperium as vast as the 3I at all... his total personally-decided Proclamations are likely less than 1 millionth of the total of the rules, laws, and directives issued Imperium-wide under the impress of the Imperial Seal during his reign.

Thus, Imperial Proclamations are always more symbolic of the power of the Emperor than actual orders for governance of the 3I, and thus are carefully selected and designed.


In my view, the 3I is run much like ancient China was... the Emperor sat in the Forbidden City and ordered whatever he wanted, but outside the walls the Mandarins (Civil Service Bureaucracy) issued whatever they proclamations, laws, and orders they felt best served the needs and interests of first China (as a whole) and secondarily those of the ruling Dynasty. If they matched what the Emperor decreed, all the better... but they could also make Decrees they didn't agree with vanish as they passed through the gates.



To me, that is why you see the machinery if the 3I government holding the mega-corps in check, despite the composition of the Moot... the career government officials simply do what they feel would best serve the 3I as a whole, as long as they don't do something their superiors would disapprove of, or that the Emperor HAS to take notice of.

The only difference is that the Emperor of the 3I is more likely to find out is his Proclamations are being subverted, changed, or ignored than the Chinese Emperor was, so the bureaucrats have to work at lower (sub-sector/local) levels of government in the implementation of their plans.

 

[Cryton]

But how much actual Proclamation-making does the Emperor actually do... and how much influence does the Moot have over what the Emperor Proclaims?

The Emperor does little proclamation. And other than having the power to dissolve the 3I, officially, all the moot does is advise the Emperor.

Remember, he can only make decisions based on what information is allowed to reach him... and this is where the Moot has great influence, both filtering and "adjusting" the information that reaches the Emperor. Then they "advise" him on what they think he should Say.

There is no way he can actually directly run an Imperium as vast as the 3I at all... his total personally-decided Proclamations are likely less than 1 millionth of the total of the rules, laws, and directives issued Imperium-wide under the impress of the Imperial Seal during his reign.

Thus, Imperial Proclamations are always more symbolic of the power of the Emperor than actual orders for governance of the 3I, and thus are carefully selected and designed.

Very True. But in the 3I proclamations are the Laws of the 3I. and there aren't many of them.

In my view, the 3I is run much like ancient China was... the Emperor sat in the Forbidden City and ordered whatever he wanted, but outside the walls the Mandarins (Civil Service Bureaucracy) issued whatever they proclamations, laws, and orders they felt best served the needs and interests of first China (as a whole) and secondarily those of the ruling Dynasty. If they matched what the Emperor decreed, all the better... but they could also make Decrees they didn't agree with vanish as they passed through the gates.

To me, that is why you see the machinery if the 3I government holding the mega-corps in check, despite the composition of the Moot... the career government officials simply do what they feel would best serve the 3I as a whole, as long as they don't do something their superiors would disapprove of, or that the Emperor HAS to take notice of.

The only difference is that the Emperor of the 3I is more likely to find out is his Proclamations are being subverted, changed, or ignored than the Chinese Emperor was, so the bureaucrats have to work at lower (sub-sector/local) levels of government in the implementation of their plans.

IMTU when a Proclamation is being subverted, changed, or ignored by a Noble of any level, the MOJ comes down on the noble like a...a...a really big heavy thing. It is a career ending move for a Noble to do so. And dont think that IMTU a knight or Baron, or any Noble who wants to move up the Noble ladder wont sell you down the river for doing so, because they will. There are also those who will do so from loyalty and to not violate their oaths to the Emperor.

This makes for far different politics than those in place of YTU.

 

[McPerth]

More decisions made for my "Proto-Traveller" universe.

Small Ship Universe

My Traveller Universe is a small ship universe, with the cap on starship tonnage set at 5,000 DTons for now. This makes the Leviathan class worthy of its name, and the Kinunir a cruiser worthy of respect.

I'm choosing this because I feel it fits the "feel" of a "proto" Traveller game better than a Large Ship Universe, I feel that a small ship universe is by far more realistic, and it will also be far easier to design ships for.

Which combat system do you use for it?

Bk2 system is (IMHO) unbearable with a 5000 dton ship, as there are too many batteries to fire, and sand clouds (both, own and enemy's) obscure the fielt as much as to make most fire ineffective.

Also, if you use bk2 system, I guess you understand the gunner interact as affecting all fire from the ship, not just a single gunner (see the definition of the program in Bk2 pg 38):

Gunner Interact interfaces the expertise of the gunner in a specific turret (...)

(underlined is mine)

So, on a ship with up to 50 turrets, the gunner interact alone would need 50 CPU slots for all of them to be modified by their gunners, and the best comuter in Bk2, the 7 rated, has only 20 slots (even using a coomputer 9 from HG you'd only have 40), of which you need at least 1 for maneover or maneover/evade (probably more, as you'd like better modifiers), 1 for target, 1 for launch (and probably some selective and multi-target) when offensive, and maneover/evade, anti-misile fire, ECM when on defensive...

Bk5 needs spinals or nuclear missiles or you soon are reenacting the Merrimak vs Monitor fight, at least if ships are allowed to armor themselves, and usually is not very useful among small ships (one of the main flaws of MT, that adapted it to any ship combat).

 

[Cryton]

Which combat system do you use for it?

Currently, I use the three counter Vector Movement system, and MgT ship combat rules. I haven't needed to do any fleet level fights, so a larger scale combat system has been unnecessary. Its what my players can get ahold of, so I have adapted.

 

[McPerth]

Currently, I use the three counter Vector Movement system, and MgT ship combat rules. I haven't needed to do any fleet level fights, so a larger scale combat system has been unnecessary. Its what my players can get ahold of, so I have adapted.

And do you keep the Bk2 ship building process or have switched to MgT, to allow for coherence (about weaponry, armor, etc...)?

They are quite close, but those subtle differences may be quite disrupting, if using different systems to build the ships and to fight with them.

 

[Cryton]

Im using MgT and MgTs version of High Guard for Ship and Base building. 5000 DTons is still the limit for Ships of any sort that mount M or J Drives, But I can and have built Spacestations that are MUCH larger.

 

[Hyphen]

Which is why dead cat swinging is illegal on most Imperial worlds.

Although catspaws aren't (thank you Hans).