Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
But, aren't they still within 100D for the sun? I thought they had to sit "between" the large body and the larger body it orbits? (It's been a while since I looked at LaGrange points, or figured 100D from Sol.)
Alternatives to jump or stutterwarp in your TU
- Thread starter MichaelL65
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Uncle Bob
That's my recolletion as well. I'm recalling seeing a Penrose diagram of a rotating black hole with a trajectory that didn't hit the singularity that emerged into negative time. I'm equating negative time with faster than light travel. I don't know if that's a bad assumption or not.
Here, here. I'm not even sure you need to remove psionics. There are several experiments in quantum mechanics that show instantaneuos action at a distance. Combine with the notions of the effects of an observer on a system and the human tradition of mystics and gurus achieving enlightenment. Who knows maybe such powers are possible, it's just all the people who claim them to make money never seem to actually have them.
What about subspace transfer portals like the Borg in Star Shrek? Maybe, the ether does exist but not on level that our dimensional perception can visualize it. Tinkering with Jumpspace physics they find that Time and Space are not absolutes as they once thought they were and are able to conquer distance by taking advantage of the spaces between.
^ I'm a huge fan of the Starflight games from the late 80's; as such, I incorporated the flux line/worm hole/subspace shunts used in the game into MTU long before ST/DS9 made them a cliche. But the catch is they were designed and built by an Ancient race, are only detectable and usable to someone with the appropriate Ancient tech, and don't always converge in convenient place or link with other holes at all.
During the education of my PC's in the dark secrets of MTU, I gave them access for a short period to one such device. They chose to activate it, I chose the destination. Very conveniently, it did allow me to piece together a bunch of one night adventures into a campaign arc that would have taken years of in-game travel time to accomplish.
During the education of my PC's in the dark secrets of MTU, I gave them access for a short period to one such device. They chose to activate it, I chose the destination. Very conveniently, it did allow me to piece together a bunch of one night adventures into a campaign arc that would have taken years of in-game travel time to accomplish.
Two of the classic La Grange points (and the most stable) are the "trojans", an orbital dameter ahead and behind in the same orbit as the planet/moon.
The sun has a diameter of 1.4 million kilometes, so in our solar system the Mercury and Venus trojans are too close, Earth's trojan points are right at the sun's 100D, and Mars+ are all OK.
Ptah you make a good point. Psychic pheomenon as usually defined is implausinble to the point of charactiture but some of the work in quantum physics opens the door for bizaare information transfer.
Likewise FTL appears possible, even something like a jump drive (although the more detail you put into "jump space" and "lanthenum coils" the more likely to become implausable). A reactionless maneuver drive appears possible (or at least not-impossible), but thruster plates seem implausable, and HePlar is impossible.
Jupiter is about 5.2 Astronomical Units (on average) from the Sun, so about 4.2AU from Earth. Without doing the calculations if the Sun 100D reaches to about 1AU, Jupiter 100D won't be anywhere close to Earth. Given that Jupiter and the Sun have about the same density Sol 1.4; Jupiter 1.3.
On the 100D point from the Sun, I thought, 428 Sol Diam = 1 A.U..
Uncle Bob,
You're right.
I went to my ref book (CRC 65th Ed.) and sure enough, your numbers are on; I get 107 Sol D = 1AU, but use 1AU=150 Mkm.
I took 428 from a note I had in a LBB, but can't fathom how I got 428 except its a facor of 4 greater than 107.
This made me check the distance for Jupiter, 5.2 AU still, and densities Sun=1.4 g/cc; Jupiter 1.3 g/cc.
You're right.
I took 428 from a note I had in a LBB, but can't fathom how I got 428 except its a facor of 4 greater than 107.
This made me check the distance for Jupiter, 5.2 AU still, and densities Sun=1.4 g/cc; Jupiter 1.3 g/cc.
As far as I understood it, the only reason to go to 100 diameters is so that the jump is not affected by the star's gravity. Lagrange points are gravitational null zones (gravitational effects between bodies are balanced and anything put there stays there). Surely, these are the places to go for a jump, even if within the 100 diameter range, as all gravitional effect is balanced out and cancelled. The Trojan Lagrange points would be the ideal points.
I like the idea of a gate system to extend the basic jump-1 free trader capability and want to try to use this. I'll have to try to find the time to work up some stats.
e.g. A jump-1 gate could increase the capability of a jump-1 free trader to jump-2. The gate would use fuel to open the way in to jumpspace and the trader would be charged for the gate usage. Only jump capable ships would be able to use a gate as a jump grid is still required whilst in jumpspace.
A jump-6 gate could increase the range of a jump-6 capable ship to 12 parsecs.
I like the idea of a gate system to extend the basic jump-1 free trader capability and want to try to use this. I'll have to try to find the time to work up some stats.
e.g. A jump-1 gate could increase the capability of a jump-1 free trader to jump-2. The gate would use fuel to open the way in to jumpspace and the trader would be charged for the gate usage. Only jump capable ships would be able to use a gate as a jump grid is still required whilst in jumpspace.
A jump-6 gate could increase the range of a jump-6 capable ship to 12 parsecs.
I see your point about the lagrange point, but I am not sure that I agree. The net gravity is zero, but the curvature of space is not. The trojan points are stable nodes, with higher potential in all directions like a cup or bowl. And as the center of the bowl is horizontal it can still be part of a curved surface. Unstable nodes are on the crest of a convex surface.
Beyond 100 diameters space is flat enough that the gentle undulations of the LaGrange points are not significant.
I figure the jump gate will be an expensive proposition and likely to be placed between two hi pop trading partners. Free traders may benefit, but is designed so that giant, cheap, J1 barges can carry the trade between worlds much further appart.
I think a jump gate, unlike a wormhole, ought to be limited to 6 parsecs. And it still need to burn L-hyd, to which purpose it has a captured comet as a fuel source
Beyond 100 diameters space is flat enough that the gentle undulations of the LaGrange points are not significant.
I figure the jump gate will be an expensive proposition and likely to be placed between two hi pop trading partners. Free traders may benefit, but is designed so that giant, cheap, J1 barges can carry the trade between worlds much further appart.
I think a jump gate, unlike a wormhole, ought to be limited to 6 parsecs. And it still need to burn L-hyd, to which purpose it has a captured comet as a fuel source
TheEngineer
SOC-14 1K
Well, I have to agree with Uncle Bob.
Regarding jump the LaGrange point are in fact a trap. You maybe could start a jump without a mishap, but ride will end at the steeper regions of the "bowl". So it might be a short trip.
Regarding jump the LaGrange point are in fact a trap. You maybe could start a jump without a mishap, but ride will end at the steeper regions of the "bowl". So it might be a short trip.
Here's an adventure hook, too. They will need a new comet for fuel every couple of years (depending on how busy they are). Comets are unpredictable, so they might not have a tug on staff. Or it could be off harnessing one comet when another one appears on a completely different vector.
So the Stargate company hires a Free Trader to go out to the second comet and fit it with a small fusion PPand M drive under computer control to gradually shift the comet's orbit to rendezvous with the Stargate in four or five years.
Rendezvousing with a comet 10-20 AU out there and installing the hardware should be challenging. Or you can add a kicker like smugglers using the comet, or terrorists, or msysterious and ancient aliens.
So the Stargate company hires a Free Trader to go out to the second comet and fit it with a small fusion PPand M drive under computer control to gradually shift the comet's orbit to rendezvous with the Stargate in four or five years.
Rendezvousing with a comet 10-20 AU out there and installing the hardware should be challenging. Or you can add a kicker like smugglers using the comet, or terrorists, or msysterious and ancient aliens.
In regard to the LaGrange points, I was avoiding mentioning them because:
1) They are points of equal gravitational influence from surrounding bodies, but not necessarily stable enough for jump,
2) A singular point in space would get rather crowded if it was the only one (or two) places that local authorities allowed travellers to jump from/to.
1) They are points of equal gravitational influence from surrounding bodies, but not necessarily stable enough for jump,
2) A singular point in space would get rather crowded if it was the only one (or two) places that local authorities allowed travellers to jump from/to.
I always like Babylon 5's jump drives. Basically you punch a hole in normal space, hold it open, fly through, and then let it close itself behind you.
Then you fly through a distorted hyperspace where distances and directions correlate to, but are much shorter than normal space. At the end of a trip you punch another hole and re-enter normal space.
This allows both stationary "jump gates" in well travelled locations, and jump drives in ships big enough to have the power required. This allows even non-starships to fly between systems, and could make non-starship warships king, if they can get to a battle from a jumpgate.
Then you fly through a distorted hyperspace where distances and directions correlate to, but are much shorter than normal space. At the end of a trip you punch another hole and re-enter normal space.
This allows both stationary "jump gates" in well travelled locations, and jump drives in ships big enough to have the power required. This allows even non-starships to fly between systems, and could make non-starship warships king, if they can get to a battle from a jumpgate.