• Welcome to the new COTI server. We've moved the Citizens to a new server. Please let us know in the COTI Website issue forum if you find any problems.
  • We, the systems administration staff, apologize for this unexpected outage of the boards. We have resolved the root cause of the problem and there should be no further disruptions.

alternative rulesets for world creation?

B

Barry Spock

SOC-3
Just wondering if anyone can point me to any other systems of world creation. I'm using the Mongoose version 2 core rule book, and I find it ok, but a bit illogical in some situations.

For eg. I;m just rolling up a world now - and it's earth size, exotic atmosphere, desert hydro, and then I get to population roll [hundreds of millions] which seems unlikely -- I feel like there's some modifiers missing when the conditions are as hostile as the factors I rolled beforehand.

Infact I'm kind of surprised mongoose or someone hasn't done a full book dedicated to world creation since it seems like the rules, info and 'colour' could be expanded on quite a bit.
 
cool. I just saw another thread on the page here that mentiond the megatraveller book. I'll have a look through the thread you linked to too, thanks.
 
Actually, there is a whole book dedicated to world-building: The World Builder's Handbook. Unfortunately, it's one of the DGP books that is no longer in publication (and therefore, expensive, on places like eBay).

It also won't help you with the illogic. It's still a moderately simple (compared to actual scientific cosmological modeling) random method for making star systems. (It also has a few associated errata.) You aren't going to find a system that doesn't have crazy anomalies (IMHO). I'm not familiar with MgT, but the LBB5 system takes into account planet size, atmo, hydro, and orbital location. If it did all the detailed work (temperature, eccentricity, density, rotational period, etc.) before it decided population, then it might reduce those anomalies - but, you would have to do a LOT more work to get a system generated.

Trust me - as someone who has been working for years now (off and on) on generating an entire sector from scratch - it ain't easy, and it ain't 'scientific' in the strictest of senses. But, then again, you're not here to create realism, you're here to create a story.

(As an aside, make sure you put this in your equation: humans will settle anywhere there's room, sometimes regardless of the absurdity of doing so. The comedian Sam Kinison had a little rant he did about feeding all the starving folks around the world - that we should send them UHauls instead of food, since they live in a dessert! He would scream "Food doesn't grow here! Move!" But, those people do live there, and many primitive people survive in those conditions. When you have to shake your head is when the generation system tells you there are 10s of billions on that airless moon in orbit 12, but the garden world in the habitable zone has no one on it.)

(One final note, a world the size of earth - especially with the other 70% of the surface added back in - with a few hundred million on it, is vastly underpopulated. You could easily fit them all in one or two cities/arcologies.)
 
GURPS Space has become my first choice for system/world design.

I then convert to Traveller stats for the UPP (and yes I do know it changed to UWP but I stick with CT ;)).
 
Barry Spock said:
Just wondering if anyone can point me to any other systems of world creation. I'm using the Mongoose version 2 core rule book, and I find it ok, but a bit illogical in some situations.
Click to expand...

The best free generation system is "World Generation" by Tyge Sjöstrand:

http://www.trisen.com/sol/downloads/wg.pdf

It's just as good as GURPS Space or 2300.

Evil Dr. Ganymede also has some free Stellar Generation Tables:

http://evildrganymede.net/rpg/world/new_rsgt.pdf

Unfortunately, neither covers population.

Jim Vassilakos included alternate generation rules, including population, in Galactic 2.4:

http://mypbem.com/Vassilakos/gal24c.zip
 
LiNeNoiSe said:
The best free generation system is "World Generation" by Tyge Sjöstrand:

http://www.trisen.com/sol/downloads/wg.pdf

It's just as good as GURPS Space or 2300.

Evil Dr. Ganymede also has some free Stellar Generation Tables:

http://evildrganymede.net/rpg/world/new_rsgt.pdf

Unfortunately, neither covers population.

Jim Vassilakos included alternate generation rules, including population, in Galactic 2.4:

http://mypbem.com/Vassilakos/gal24c.zip
Click to expand...

Will check these out, thanks!

For me, not generating population is a plus, as it saves me the step of going into StarBase or whatever and zeroing out all of the pop/gov't stuff. The TU I am working on does not have so many populated places that I need to randomly generate them; I'd rather have some nice random star systems (as detailed and accurate as I can reasonably get) and then place the pop/govt stuff by hand.
 
SpaceBadger said:
Will check these out, thanks!

For me, not generating population is a plus, as it saves me the step of going into StarBase or whatever and zeroing out all of the pop/gov't stuff. The TU I am working on does not have so many populated places that I need to randomly generate them; I'd rather have some nice random star systems (as detailed and accurate as I can reasonably get) and then place the pop/govt stuff by hand.
Click to expand...

I've used Sjöstrand's system with 2300. I actually like it better. Like you, I'd rather do the "social data" by hand, while keeping "maximum sustainable population" in mind.
 
I love this opening in Sjöstrand's system, and it should probably be in the beginning of every generations system in existence:
I do not claim for this document to be scientifically correct. Many generation formulae include a random component, for instance, and others are constructed just to make "decent" results as I see it. The ideas are a collection of various sources from literature to news articles, and as always they may not be correct or interpreted correctly. Also, there may be problems with the equations I haven 't noted. Several of the formulae are however just ordinary physics, calculating the scale height or surface gravity is a straightforward thing.
There is a foundation in science, though. It may be simplified or skewed, or based upon inaccurate background data, but the intention has been "realism". If you don't like any of the charts or equations, change them by all means. And if you find any errors or strange things, do contact me.
Click to expand...
 
LiNeNoiSe said:
The best free generation system is "World Generation" by Tyge Sjöstrand
Click to expand...

It's the best system I've seen [mind you, I haven't seen them all, of course], but it's *detailed* (which I consider a good thing!) I don't use it, however.

I'm using Aramis' modified set, which I believe is posted on his website. It works well for Traveller. :)
 
HiverLord said:
It's the best system I've seen [mind you, I haven't seen them all, of course], but it's *detailed* (which I consider a good thing!) I don't use it, however.

I'm using Aramis' modified set, which I believe is posted on his website. It works well for Traveller. :)
Click to expand...

thanks!
 
HiverLord said:
It's the best system I've seen [mind you, I haven't seen them all, of course], but it's *detailed* (which I consider a good thing!) I don't use it, however.

I'm using Aramis' modified set, which I believe is posted on his website. It works well for Traveller. :)
Click to expand...

I use it myself. When I don't bother to hand craft the worlds of any sub-sector I design...
 
HiverLord said:
It's the best system I've seen [mind you, I haven't seen them all, of course], but it's *detailed* (which I consider a good thing!) I don't use it, however.

I'm using Aramis' modified set, which I believe is posted on his website. It works well for Traveller. :)
Click to expand...

Just now downloaded it. Looks pretty detailed.
 
LiNeNoiSe said:
Just now downloaded it. Looks pretty detailed.
Click to expand...

On par with Bk6, considerably less than WBH or G:Space.

And it's got a MAJOR realism flaw - it retains (for CT compatibility) the Titus Bode derived fixed orbital distances. I ignored eccentricity, too, but used the temp from the TSRD.
 
aramis said:
On par with Bk6, considerably less than WBH or G:Space.

And it's got a MAJOR realism flaw - it retains (for CT compatibility) the Titus Bode derived fixed orbital distances. I ignored eccentricity, too, but used the temp from the TSRD.
Click to expand...

I like that you roll for temperature early in the process. I never understood why GDW ignored it in basic generation.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

B
CT Only: house rule for Book 3, world generation rules
Replies
15
Views
4K
whulorigan
whulorigan
M
Seeking Clarification and Advice - Land Grants/Character Creation/Being a Referee
Replies
3
Views
1K
GypsyComet
GypsyComet
F
My First Character (Homeworld)
Replies
10
Views
2K
Frewfrux
F
R
Imperial Member World Admission
Replies
8
Views
1K
RainOfSteel
R
R
Commerce: Shipping Low-Value Cargos (and Starship Design & Construction)
Replies
17
Views
2K
mad13142000
M
Back
Top