All Things Vargr

[Condottiere]

Vargr: Military Organization

V. Mining type railways would be easier and cheaper to lay down than digging up canals.

W. It really depends on whether Vargr have beasts of burden, and if they manage to selectively breed for power and endurance.

X. If they're stuck with mid sized mounts, they might be stuck with reindeer and dog sleds.

Y. Though, should be able to get cavalry mounts.

Z. Evolving through carts and chariots.

 

[Condottiere]

Vargr: Military Organization

1. I don't see early Vargr being very proficient with bows.

2. The problem with crossbows would be, that they still have to be wound up.

3. Which would leave us, or them, with slings, and atlatls.

4. Light armour would match up with the lack of strength powered melee weapons.

5. I tend to think they'd go for a Highland charge.

6. Using terrain to mask their movements, close to use their missile weapons, and then charge the disorganized enemy.

7. And as they go up the tech tree, they have to deal with recoil from firearms.

8. I tend to think that, when fighting with other Vargr, they'll use a lower calibre ammunition, since Vargr hit points and resistance would be lower.

9. And a lower rate of fire weapon with more powerful bullets, when fighting humans.

 

[Condottiere]

Vargr: Military Organization

A. How does Vargr lack of strength and stamina work out for infantry heavy weapon systems?

B. Obviously, they either have to be scaled down, or need larger teams.

C. Scaling down an eighty millimetre mortar, makes it either a forty millimetre foot mortar, sixty millimetres, or move straight to grenade launcher.

D. Or, you could assign two Vargr to carry each component of the mortar, barrel, baseplate, and bipod (well, one for that).

E. Optionally, low weight mortarish stuff moving along with the front troops, and support mortars at the band tier.

F. Or, three Vargrs carrying a Carl Gustav.

 

[Condottiere]

Vargr: Military Organization

G. Recoilless rifles should be rather popular.

H. One shot anti armour missiles.

I. As they go up their tech trees, lasguns should be considered by the Vargr as the ultimate smallarm.

J. Except, I suspect that they run out of energy long before they run out of targets.

K. And reflec takes up almost no weight.

 

[Condottiere]

Vargr: Military Organization

L. Traditionally, you have packs line up, and throw javelins at each other, more as a ceremonial demonstration of Vargrhood.

M. Once, they get really organized into legions, throw javelins to disrupt the enemy formation, and charge.

N. Standing still to receive a charge, may be a bad idea for weaker Vargr.

O. With muskets, it's likely chicken who shoots first, and then bayonette charge.

P. In all cases, forward skirmishers and scouts, who'll take potshots.

 

[Condottiere]

Vargr: Military Organization

Q. The Vargr scouts would be meant to locate the enemy forces.

R. The Vargr skirmishers to remain in contact, and screen their primary forces from the enemy reconnaissance units.

S. The Vargr vanguard would be used to pin the enemy forces, while the Vargr commander decided as to how to proceed.

T. The main body would either try to outflank the enemy, reinforce the vanguard, or, rush the enemy.

U. The rearguard would act as a reserve, to either reinforce success, outflank the enemy, or help extract forward forces from contact.

 

[Condottiere]

V. Despite organic melee capability, that's more a last resort against a stronger opponent, such as a human.

W. While Vargr will close to close quarters, it's more to spray and pray.

X. Throw enough lead down range, and something should bite.

Y. Surprise, or desperation, would be the reason for the Vargr to throw themselves into melee against stronger opponents.

Z. For automatic weapons equipped Vargr, charging stops short of actual melee, to position themselves to shoot their opponents at close range.

 

[Condottiere]

Vargr: Military Organization

1. You might be wondering if I pulled this standard operational procedure out of my ass.

2. Well, I'd say that coordinating actions between different packs, even if part of the same band, would be difficult.

3. There'd be an inclination to interpret orders in the pack leader's own best interests.

4. Which includes minimizing casualties for his pack, and maximizing glory to increase his charisma.

5. So orders are simplified, and sometimes, just mission objectives.

6. Good commanders make it very clear, as to what is expected of each pack, especially, if they're meant to support another.

7. If something specific is required, elite units, personal packs, or personal supervision of the assigned pack.

8. Heavy support weapon systems is preferred to medium artillery, since being closer to the action, they're easier and faster to direct.

9. Heavy artillery, since outside counter battery, they have a scheduled and planned fire mission, which packs would be warned about.

 

[Condottiere]

Vargr: Military Organization

A. Once the Vargr are interstellarized, what sort of sidearms would they prefer?

B. Highly likely, gauss based ones.

C. Range, damage, and lack of recoil.

D. But, that's for the rich, and elite troops, I'd guess.

E. I don't think that twelve gauge shotguns are going to be widespread.

F. But, rocket propelled grenades, would be.

 

[kilemall]

Vargr: Military Organization

A. Once the Vargr are interstellarized, what sort of sidearms would they prefer?

B. Highly likely, gauss based ones.

C. Range, damage, and lack of recoil.

D. But, that's for the rich, and elite troops, I'd guess.

E. I don't think that twelve gauge shotguns are going to be widespread.

F. But, rocket propelled grenades, would be.

Gauss would have recoil. Note it’s not a zero G weapon. That would be accelerator rifle/snub pistol and the like.

 

[Condottiere]

Normally, propulsion is by an explosion of gunpowder.

Gauss has a smooth acceleration along the length of the barrel.

 

[Condottiere]

Vargr: Military Organization

G. What the Vargr have would be the tension between stand off sniping, and rushing the opponent.

H. Standing still will eventually attract artillery.

I. Also, the other side would also be thinking about rushing their tormentors.

J. Humans eventually compromised on the intermediate calibre carbine.

K. Difference probably would be full automatic, rather than a three round burst.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Normally, propulsion is by an explosion of gunpowder.

Gauss has a smooth acceleration along the length of the barrel.

Yes, but F=MV regardless. Unless there's a counter-recoil reaction-jet (or at sufficiently high tech, the use of grav compensation), the bullet going out makes gun kick back. Gauss weapons and railguns distribute the recoil force over a longer duration than you'd see in a chemically-propelled-round weapon so there's less "muzzle walk", but if you're firing in free-fall you'll still start spinning if you aren't anchored.

Accelerator weapons (such as TL-7 Gyrojet - wikipedia link guns) use rocket propelled projectiles. The projectile's exhaust does not transfer momentum to the gun, so there is no recoil.

 

[Condottiere]

I think that for Traveller mechanics for handguns, it's minus one to recoil.

Rocket propelled has a minimum of five metres for full effect, somewhat expensive, and optimized for microgravity.

Snub based handguns are really short ranged.

My primary struggle was whether the Vargr would go for a split in submachineguns and marksman's rifles, and decided that with the capabilities of the advanced combat rifle, you can split the difference.

 

[Condottiere]

Vargr: Military Organization

L. The advanced combat rifle is likely the preferred choice for Vargr engaged in non diplomatic policy discussions.

M. While ammunition would be standard, the rifle itself would be increasingly customized to individual taste.

N. Most likely, paw fitted, and recoil compensated.

O. Usual accessories, such as laser pointer, grenade launcher, sights.

P. Possibly, blinged out.

 

[whulorigan]

Yes, but F=MV regardless. Unless there's a counter-recoil reaction-jet (or at sufficiently high tech, the use of grav compensation), the bullet going out makes gun kick back. Gauss weapons and railguns distribute the recoil force over a longer duration than you'd see in a chemically-propelled-round weapon so there's less "muzzle walk", but if you're firing in free-fall you'll still start spinning if you aren't anchored.

Well, just to be pedantic:

• p = mv
  • p = momentum
  • Δp = Impulse
  • m = mass
  • v = velocity
• F = ma
  • F = Force = dp/dt (instantaneous change in momentum with time)
  • a = acceleration = dv/dt = (instantaneous) Δv/Δt

So the chemical explosion of gunpowder notionally gives you the same impulse (i.e. change in momentum) as EM-coils or rails, but a larger force (impulse per unit time - hence the kick). But momentum is the conserved quantity, not Force, so your point is essentially correct. The firing-individual (if in zero-G) will end up with the same tumble (or same linear receding/opposite momentum if fired from center-of-mass). It is merely a matter of how fast he will accelerate to that final tumble or linear velocity. In gravity on solid ground, it makes the weapon more controllable and not subject to kick/barrel-rise, as you note.

Mediating between the two are ETC (electrothermal chemical) rounds - a rapid expanding/reacting plasma instead of an instantaneous chemical explosion in the barrel - which later editions of Traveller have often described as one of the propulsive mechanisms for ACR rounds.

Accelerator weapons (such as TL-7 Gyrojet - wikipedia link guns) use rocket propelled projectiles. The projectile's exhaust does not transfer momentum to the gun, so there is no recoil.

Specifically, because the barrel is vented along the sides, and acts more as a launch-rail for the ammunition and the ammo continues to accelerate to full velocity after it has left the barrel.

 

[Condottiere]

Let me take a some what controversial view on the Vargr handgun question.

They don't need quite as much energy to knock each other out, compared to humans.

So, they use light rifle calibre ammunition, when plinking at each other.

Evolution of the handgun, for the Vargr, would be light smoothbore musket, to rifled squirrel gun, to Ferguson rifle.

They get around to developing brass casing and primer, and magazines.

By the time they get to assault rifles, they use twenty two (very) long rifle.

Those that can afford flak jackets, wear them, and rifles start getting more powerful.

 

[FreeTrav]

So you suggest that Vargr preferences are for lower caliber and lighter powder loads than is 'standard' among humans? With 'magnum' loads being unusual?

 

[Condottiere]

Yes, but that magnum loads evolve, to deal with increased range and protection.

Twenty two long rifle can be lethal, and at short range, and full automatic, that's going to be more than one hit.

Vargr strategists must have been shocked, once they realized, or saw the results, when machine guns were widely utilized.

Vargr aren't robust (as humans); their advantage is speed. Being less robust means it's easier to knock them out, or down, and wounding them slows them down.

In theory, the Vargr are better shooters, but, they have to worry about getting worn down.

That's why, I think they use the skirmish phase to attrite the enemy, until they either spot a weakness, or hope the enemy is disrupted, so that they can rush them.

The mantra for the Vargr would be a short and glorious war, because if you drag it out, you lose more than it's likely worth.

Pyrrhic victory being somewhat of a curse.

 

[kilemall]

Yes, but that magnum loads evolve, to deal with increased range and protection.

Twenty two long rifle can be lethal, and at short range, and full automatic, that's going to be more than one hit.

Vargr strategists must have been shocked, once they realized, or saw the results, when machine guns were widely utilized.

Vargr aren't robust (as humans); their advantage is speed. Being less robust means it's easier to knock them out, or down, and wounding them slows them down.

In theory, the Vargr are better shooters, but, they have to worry about getting worn down.

That's why, I think they use the skirmish phase to attrite the enemy, until they either spot a weakness, or hope the enemy is disrupted, so that they can rush them.

The mantra for the Vargr would be a short and glorious war, because if you drag it out, you lose more than it's likely worth.

Pyrrhic victory being somewhat of a curse.

Have not seriously dug into Vargr, but wouldn’t they have big litters?