Alien Zhodani Nobles

[kafka47]

Let us assume that all sentients eventually can master psionics...ok, I know the Hivers are a partial exception...however, I wonder if in the Consulate that non human populations can reach into the Intendant or Noble Classes.

For I see the Zhodani Consulate spreading like Islam in maintaining a well ordered society save the language of the Word of Allah is psionics. Therefore, anyone in possession of psionics can ascend rather quickly through society. True, most of Islam's history has been governed by despots but that is exactly how the Imperium views the Zhodani Democracy.

 

[Gadrin]

You might want to read Clifford Lineham's interview with Marc Miller concerning the way the Zhodani perceive/treat other races, especially with respect to the ones along the Core Route.

I got the impression that just because another race is psionic, the Zhodani don't view them as "one of the family" so to speak.

It seems the Zhodani have a cultural identity and they view most outsiders with a great deal of suspicion. There's a possibility for openess and fairness via psionics, but it'll still require years if not decades of built up trust for it to flourish to a "we are brothers in arms" point.

YMMV.


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[Gadrin]

For anyone else interested...

http://web.archive.org/web/20021020142743/www.geocities.com/traveller_core_route/proj001/faq.html

I tried one of the newer pages on the Wayback Machine but it was missing links.

and the main page: http://web.archive.org/web/20021018135749/www.geocities.com/traveller_core_route/


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[Gadrin]

Ah, good I didn't mis-remember...

 Clifford Linehan It would seem to me that for Droyne worlds in and
around the Zhodani would be welcomed with open arms as "Fellow Psionics" and
trade with said worlds would be a normal and unquestioned occurrence by the
Zhodani (Unlike the Imperium that would red zone the planet). 

Marc Miller Hardly. Not human. Not Zhodani. Maybe they would be dealt with,
but hardly with open arms. 

Clifford Linehan It would seem that the Zho's are somewhat isolationist, but
not xenophobic, and are trading with Droyne worlds because there is a direct
benefit to the Zho core missions. (i.e.: Droyne Jumpdrive) 

Marc Miller But "Open Arms?" No more so than with any other race they
meet.

 

[kafka47]

Well, I can see the point with the Droyne...after they nearly wiped all sentient life on Zhandt when just two branches of the same Droyne Otrip came together in a binary poison.

However, it then leaves the question, if Chartered Space is full of life, how is it that Zhodani can keep their hold on the Consulate from the Minor Races not taken over the show. Hence, I go back to the model of medievel Islam. A pluralistic, multicultural society, polity in the city where the knowledge of Arabic and the Koran stripped away superfiscial "racial" or "ethnic" distinctions.

One solution was build the Consulate around large pocket empires and quietly waiting for the minor race to see the benefits of union then slowly absorbing that culture into the main culture much as they did with Clotho. However, it does seem likely the Consulate would know what to do, if they encountered a warlike psionic culture...isolation would not be an option nor sterilization (at least not in the early days of the Consulate when tech levels might be comparable).

 

[Gadrin]

Because the game is designed that way ? :rofl:

I never understood why the Imperials didn't embrace psionics. But it's a game with a different motive than the all out power-hunger that's D&D or the other super-duper types of games.

If you can find a copy, read Traveller Chronicle #7, the Zhodani had a tough time with some of the races in there (Far Frontiers), it wasn't all just a steamroll operation...send in the Teleportation Commandos!

GypsyComet on these boards can give you a better in-depth analysis.

My guess is that's why they're ultimately called "minor races" they just can't flourish as quickly as necessary for this type of "bout of the big boys" to occur.

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[kafka47]

The Imperium did embrace psionics in a big way until the supressions thenn it did so in the shadows. It will be interesting to see what take Psion takes on the whole thing. Therefore, maybe your question is why did the Psionic Supressions happen?

For me it was an issue again of muting the rising power of the Solomani who were more apt getting things like psionics on board. Detente with the Consulate had already been achieved. But, the internal phobias of the Zhodani made them to deliver a First Strike (or shot across the bow) against the Imperium...their policy objective failed and fear gripped the masses and those in control sought to use that fear to ram through a consolidation of power.

 

[Gadrin]

The Imperium did embrace psionics in a big way until the supressions thenn it did so in the shadows. It will be interesting to see what take Psion takes on the whole thing. Therefore, maybe your question is why did the Psionic Supressions happen?

Yes, but in a meta-game way. History of the imperium is largely fiction, so I change it to suit my tastes.

The good thing is in most approved settings, all that stuff is long-since gone, unless you're into Historical types of scenarios; so it doesn't factor into games unless you've got a psi character. Otherwise it's gaming-as-usual.

All you have to do is really place your game outside of Imperial borders and anything can happen.

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[kafka47]

I like adding history to the campaigns that I run but in a sutle way, so that the gognards may get it but it does not impact upon play. For instance, when exploring an abandoned First Imperium space station somewhere in the Marches they discover some of the computers are missing keys or crucial parts seem to be welded shut. These were security measures designed for Zhodani flicking, but, as it did not impact play the gognards could smile at the recognition but the newbies just played on.

So, yes, the Psionic Suppressions were history but they make a great plot device up to TNE...when the whole thing is rendered moot. For instance, a prominent Noble father looking for is daughter hires the PCs. In the course of their researches they found out that the daughter's great-great-great grandmother's sister was a psion. The daughter fell into the company of some neo-Pagan group whilst at university that was a coven for witch/psion coven. Players must deal with keeping the family secret and helping the daughter escape assuming she has not been recruited by the Ive Gnar.

 

[Gadrin]

Well, if you've got a good group who know their Traveller or are at least interested in it, then it matters more.

Doubtful such a device would be used on a newbie group, but it could be, again if they take the game-background seriously.

I was developing a few Zhodani adventures and they're really not much different from Imperial ones, aside from the open use of psionics.

After reading A Bertram Chandler Grimes and Niven's Kzin it could be fun to have a more open IISS or kick up the Aslan's a notch or two, by tweaking the background. It probably makes more sense to use independents who are assisting the Imperium, who turns a blind eye to the psi-rating of the person(s), since they're getting something they want in return. That'd be fairly standard: let the player have their cake and eat it too.

Or turning up the supernatural feel with Female Aslan psis who assist combat teams with "visions or gifts" or some sort of respectable mantle for Male Aslans with psi-powers.

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[Gadrin]

BTW Kafka, if you'd like to bang heads on some ideas for Zhodani Core adventures I'd be more than willing.

I wrote down a few to start using the Core, which I think is a fascinating part of the Traveller canon.

I also developed several Zhodani adventures (not fully fleshed out) for a team roving the Far Frontiers back in the day when the Consulate was still new to the sector.


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[GypsyComet]

The period when the Zhodani are in the process of absorbing the Vlazhdumecta (that they can catch) would make for some interesting scenarios, yes. Everyone is lower TL, and you might actually know the location of the Vlazhdumecta homeworld (lost through thousands of years of Zhodani redaction by the late 3rd Imperium era). We (which is to say, me and the folks who developed Yiklerzdanzh to spinward) purposely left the Vlazhdumecta homeworld undefined, but your characters might actually know of it since it may not have fallen yet...

Oddly enough, the area of space that would later become the Blight will probably have an almost Imperial feel to it, with the colonies of the Vlazhdumecta tightly connected by commerce. Only after the Zhodani tear the heart out of the Vlazhdumecta does the area get desperate and stubborn.

You might have some internal division among the Zhodani mission command and higher up, as some want to push for complete envelopment and incorporation, while others are more cautious. Historically the aggressive stance led to the Zhodani tendril along the spinward edge of FF, while a more cautious approach led to the intractability of the early Blight. If the Zhodani had moved in faster, things might have been very different. That's good grist for internal politics Zhodani-style...

 

[Gadrin]

Gypsy did you create the Protectorate ?

I'd be interested in finding out how they came to be. Whether it was a concerted effort to forestall the Zhodani in that region or just things taking their course.

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[kafka47]

Gadrin, yes, I would very much like that. The premise that I have going for Core Expeditions would be akin to the Soviet Western...the settlement of Central Asia...thereby providing lots of local civilizations that were not formally incorporated in the USSR until much later and the Far North Expeditions...taking many a lonely pilot/crew scrambling to the Northern reaches...mechanical failure...the story of comrades not making it...all the good stuff of legend.

For too long, I think the Core has been prey to the Stanley & Livingston approach. I see the Zhodani as being cautious ethnographers and extending the benefits of their civilization but not their government to others, as they advance toward the Core. Plus, tons of trading post type settlements whereby Proles are given a much greater say sufficiently quarantined from the Masses in the Consulate...perhaps, giving rise to why the EW was so devastating...the insanity spread.

 

[GypsyComet]

Gypsy did you create the Protectorate ?

I'd be interested in finding out how they came to be. Whether it was a concerted effort to forestall the Zhodani in that region or just things taking their course.

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I did not. The Protectorate are part of Dale Kemper's half of the sector and predate my involvement by many years. I added a few worlds to the Protectorate as they fell into my half, but otherwise have little to do with it.

Based on the history of the sector, the Protectorate emerged long after the Zhodani had basically frozen their borders, so if it was created or encouraged by far-flung Imperials seeking to forestall the Zhodani, it was done due to a misunderstanding of the Zhodani policy. Not unusual, really.

The Zhodani do appear to have continued efforts to secure their borders through a layer of ideologically compatible border states, but in reality *any* border states that are not terribly imperialistic will fulfill the Consulate's needs in this matter. Stability is always better than the opposite.

The Protectorate likely came about due to some Consular field agent getting a bit overzealous and triggering fear of (non-existent) border expansion. The Imperium would have been really reaching to get agents this far out, but its possible that the Protectorate was formed with a pro-Imperial bent. It is more likely that an Imperial agent or scout triggered that desire some years later in a state that was already leaning away from the Zhodani and wanted support. The Protectorate is the oldest minor state in the sector IIRC, the rest having formed behind the protection it creates, as illusory as that is.

 

[Gadrin]

Well let's see, Protectorate established in 536 according to the Traveller Chronicle #7. Long after Zhodani presence. Must have taken the zho's by surprise (or at least that could be inferred).

I know by 788 they gave up their neutral status to side with the Imperium.

Looks like in 695 the Union of Garth split off from the Protectorate and in 785 a few of the UoG became Zhodani allies. Looks like in the 2 centuries after the formation of the Protectorate, the Zhodani stepped up their activity in the region. Looks like divide and conquer on the surface. However these were probably already pro-Zho in some fashion.

So it looks like the Zhodani were still fairly active in making in-roads well after the Protectorate was established. Perhaps they [the Protectorate] feared an implosion or such ?

Bringing in the Imperials who are used to dealing with the Zhos might cinch things up a bit.

I'm just guessing. An outsider's perspective.

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[Gadrin]

Gadrin, yes, I would very much like that. The premise that I have going for Core Expeditions would be akin to the Soviet Western...the settlement of Central Asia...thereby providing lots of local civilizations that were not formally incorporated in the USSR until much later and the Far North Expeditions...taking many a lonely pilot/crew scrambling to the Northern reaches...mechanical failure...the story of comrades not making it...all the good stuff of legend.

For too long, I think the Core has been prey to the Stanley & Livingston approach. I see the Zhodani as being cautious ethnographers and extending the benefits of their civilization but not their government to others, as they advance toward the Core. Plus, tons of trading post type settlements whereby Proles are given a much greater say sufficiently quarantined from the Masses in the Consulate...perhaps, giving rise to why the EW was so devastating...the insanity spread.

I see the Core Expeditions as a way for the Zhodani to take further steps to insure their "supremacy" -- well in a sideways manner. If not supremacy, surely a solidification of their own position in the galaxy.

They were genuinely intrigued by the Artifact since it did something they didn't know was possible.

I see it as a treasure hunt, both for Ancient Artifacts and for knowledge, but that's just me

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[kafka47]

A treasure hunt for sure is a good way of looking at it. Save that it is an organized effort by entire society. Part of it propaganda, eg. "Everyone save the lanthanium filiament from their light bulb to contribute to the Core Expedition." Part of adventure is adventure, "You, Citizen, are you tired of working 9-2 in the microwave factory on Zdant...you could volunteer and become part of the great Colonial Core Expedition Corps...to gain real skills and make everyone's life better in the Consulate." etc.

But I wonder how popular the Core Expeditions are amongst the general Zhodani populace? Are there TriVid Shows showing the strange and exotic locales.

Also my conception also differs from yours, as I have introduced more subclassing within the Psionic Nobility. For as much as the Zhodani proclaim the science of psionics...there is also a certain amount of mysticism that goes with the practices. It in part comes from the fact that one's civilization was effectively wiped out by plague. The other part is that the Droyne/Chirpers were the first teachers of the art of psionics amongst the proto-Zhodani who were "couriers" for the Ancients.

 

[Gadrin]

Lanthanum is probably the least of their worries, what with all the worlds/systems they control. If it's too much of a logistical nightmare to haul along, then they'll have to mine it enroute -- which is a scenario I've designed.

I'd say it's also likely that Chirpers & Droyne would be brought along, unless the Zhodani feel they know all their is to know about the Ancients -- or that these Chirpers & droyne would have little in common with their distant relatives (which could be likely). However there could be something innate about the Ancients that connects them to those that come later. It might be a long shot/gamble but it seems the Zhodani would cover that base just in case. It might be possible certain droyne get to use the Artifact, unless it's left behind on Zhdant and not brought along (another option to mull over).

As for the true reason for the Core Expeditions, since the Artifact is a "state secret" (described as such in GURPS, don't recall what CT said) then the real reason for going wouldn't be public knowledge and some sort of cover-story/deception seems likely. I suppose it's a largely military operation, and secrets are still secrets there. Piece of cake.

As to what's shared with the public, your guess is as good as anyone's. I'd think something orchestrated such that it fosters the continued effort(s).
Plenty of stories to tell from it though, that's the nature of exploration.

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[GypsyComet]

The early Zhodani shared their world with Chirpers, not full-casted Droyne. That was also thousands of years ago now.

Zhodani are likely to get along well with Chirpers, and be initially intimidated by full Droyne. Droyne are likely the only race the Zhodani have ever encountered that are more psionic on a day-to-day basis than they are. The Droyne also seem to enjoy being inscrutable, which will drive Zhodani contact experts to distraction.

The two races are similar enough that the Zhodani made *a* connection, but probably didn't connect the two properly for a very long time. Droyne leaders will know pretty quickly that the Zhodani are psionic, and are likely to keep their distance. Until the casting ceremony is observed, the Zhodani are probably not going to make the connection, and once they do, that still doesn't open up all Droyne to friendly relations. The Droyne are as different from world to world as the Zhodani are the same.