Any guesses?
Afhganistan's Law Level
- Thread starter Blue Ghost
- Start date
While it is true that those items may be owned by private individuals in the US, *carrying* them is a different matter. Actual ownership of weapons is not prohibited until law level "A" (at least in CT).
Also, you are ignoring the massive issue of state laws on the issue, which varies significantly.
In a general sense, I would guess that the US law level would be about "6" - open wearing of weapons prohibited. The major caveat would be that this varies state to state; some do allow open-carry of firearms, many more also license concealed carry.
Also, you are ignoring the massive issue of state laws on the issue, which varies significantly.
In a general sense, I would guess that the US law level would be about "6" - open wearing of weapons prohibited. The major caveat would be that this varies state to state; some do allow open-carry of firearms, many more also license concealed carry.
It was my understanding that years back one could own a full automatic weapon in Illinois, provided it was registered. And there are individuals who own things like UZIs, M-16s, and so forth, but do so out of a special arrangement. One of those would be a weapon's prop-master; where he rents out his weapons for feature films and commercials. There are also mercenaries who, albeit illegally (the authorities turn a blinde eye), own and operate here in the United States. At least that was the case 20 some years ago when 60 Minutes did an expose on "Private Armies". I'm not sure if mercenaries are still permitted to own full automatic weapons.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mjwest:
In a general sense, I would guess that the US law level would be about "6" - open wearing of weapons prohibited. The major caveat would be that this varies state to state; some do allow open-carry of firearms, many more also license concealed carry.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
True. For example, in my state open carry is allowed. You can carry a pistol, rifle or shotgun on your person while shopping if you are so inclined. This would include full-auto if you are otherwise allowed to own the weapon. You can apply for a license to carry a concealed weapon, which allows you to carry a concealed pistol virtually anywhere in the state, including churches and schools. The state must issue the license to anyone who does not have a conviction or mental illness. Most of the adjacent states have identical laws. On the other hand, Washington D.C. allows no firearms whatsoever. Not to say there are no guns in Washington; I think it still has the highest murder rate in the world.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kentares:
WHAT ??? Are you joking or what ???<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, kind of wierd isn't it? There are over a million machineguns legally in private hands, and not one has ever been used in a crime - they cost too much (other than one case where a cop shot his wife). An UZI costs about $3K, an M16 about $5K, M60 are $12,000+, etc. Here is a .50 M2HB heavy machinegun for sale, in case anyone has been thinking of picking one up: http://www.impactguns.com/store/ramo_M2HB.html. Great for a conversation piece in the living room, or for shooting down low flying aircraft.
While these weapons are allowed by federal law, they can still be banned by state law. Ownership is also at the discretion of the local sheriff (but there is a way around that). As Blue Ghost mentioned, it is difficult to go full-auto in Illinois, but other states have no prohibition.
The law level in the UPP is unhelpful in relation to a federal structure. In the US some states approach 1, while others are rated A or higher.
[This message has been edited by samdx (edited 07 February 2002).]
In a general sense, I would guess that the US law level would be about "6" - open wearing of weapons prohibited. The major caveat would be that this varies state to state; some do allow open-carry of firearms, many more also license concealed carry.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
True. For example, in my state open carry is allowed. You can carry a pistol, rifle or shotgun on your person while shopping if you are so inclined. This would include full-auto if you are otherwise allowed to own the weapon. You can apply for a license to carry a concealed weapon, which allows you to carry a concealed pistol virtually anywhere in the state, including churches and schools. The state must issue the license to anyone who does not have a conviction or mental illness. Most of the adjacent states have identical laws. On the other hand, Washington D.C. allows no firearms whatsoever. Not to say there are no guns in Washington; I think it still has the highest murder rate in the world.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kentares:
WHAT ??? Are you joking or what ???<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, kind of wierd isn't it? There are over a million machineguns legally in private hands, and not one has ever been used in a crime - they cost too much (other than one case where a cop shot his wife). An UZI costs about $3K, an M16 about $5K, M60 are $12,000+, etc. Here is a .50 M2HB heavy machinegun for sale, in case anyone has been thinking of picking one up: http://www.impactguns.com/store/ramo_M2HB.html. Great for a conversation piece in the living room, or for shooting down low flying aircraft.
While these weapons are allowed by federal law, they can still be banned by state law. Ownership is also at the discretion of the local sheriff (but there is a way around that). As Blue Ghost mentioned, it is difficult to go full-auto in Illinois, but other states have no prohibition.
The law level in the UPP is unhelpful in relation to a federal structure. In the US some states approach 1, while others are rated A or higher.
[This message has been edited by samdx (edited 07 February 2002).]
Simon Jester
SOC-12
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DrSkull:
But there is little chance Ohio will attack Indiana.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You've not seen many NCAA (College) Basketball games, have you? Especially a conference championship game, and its aftermath. When the fratboys get really geared-up and apply copious amounts of fermented malt beverage, only their general lack of physical coordination prevents most attempts at interstate invasion.
Simon Jester
------------------
-If it's stupid but it works, it isn't stupid.
[This message has been edited by Simon Jester (edited 09 February 2002).]
[This message has been edited by Simon Jester (edited 09 February 2002).]
But there is little chance Ohio will attack Indiana.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You've not seen many NCAA (College) Basketball games, have you? Especially a conference championship game, and its aftermath. When the fratboys get really geared-up and apply copious amounts of fermented malt beverage, only their general lack of physical coordination prevents most attempts at interstate invasion.
Simon Jester
------------------
-If it's stupid but it works, it isn't stupid.
[This message has been edited by Simon Jester (edited 09 February 2002).]
[This message has been edited by Simon Jester (edited 09 February 2002).]
MichaelL65
SOC-12
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DrSkull:
But there is little chance Ohio will attack Indiana.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
There have been a couple of times (in the distant past) that states have come close to just that. Missouri once wanted to claim the southern part of Iowa, both states had their regiments at the ready. Missouri decided it wasn't worth the effort (even though it would have raised the collective IQ of both states)
Then there was the minor skirmish between the northern and southern states back in the 1860's...
But there is little chance Ohio will attack Indiana.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
There have been a couple of times (in the distant past) that states have come close to just that. Missouri once wanted to claim the southern part of Iowa, both states had their regiments at the ready. Missouri decided it wasn't worth the effort (even though it would have raised the collective IQ of both states)
Then there was the minor skirmish between the northern and southern states back in the 1860's...
As a whole, the United states would be listed as a law level of 6 and a government of 4 (and a population level of 8).
For government type, the US is technically a 4; a Representative Democracy, or Republic. In operation, considering the pathetic voting percentages, it is operationally a 9, Impersonal Bureaucracy.
For law level, the US is a 6. Regardless of the legality, it is socially unacceptable to carry weaponry. Regardless of the state and regardless of the legality, if you walk around with a sword or six-shooter strapped to your waist, you are going to be hassled.
However, if you want to push the standard social limits, but stay legal, you have to do your homework.
As an aside, this works just the same in Traveller. Just about any world with a population of 7 or greater (maybe 6 or greater) is likely to have some large variations at the provincial (or state) level.
Just because a world has a lawlevel of 4 doesn't necessarily mean you can carry your pistol anywhere you want, and just because another world has a lawlevel of 9 doesn't necessary mean you can't have a weapon. The player should do their homework, and the referee should make them.
For government type, the US is technically a 4; a Representative Democracy, or Republic. In operation, considering the pathetic voting percentages, it is operationally a 9, Impersonal Bureaucracy.
For law level, the US is a 6. Regardless of the legality, it is socially unacceptable to carry weaponry. Regardless of the state and regardless of the legality, if you walk around with a sword or six-shooter strapped to your waist, you are going to be hassled.
However, if you want to push the standard social limits, but stay legal, you have to do your homework.
As an aside, this works just the same in Traveller. Just about any world with a population of 7 or greater (maybe 6 or greater) is likely to have some large variations at the provincial (or state) level.
Just because a world has a lawlevel of 4 doesn't necessarily mean you can carry your pistol anywhere you want, and just because another world has a lawlevel of 9 doesn't necessary mean you can't have a weapon. The player should do their homework, and the referee should make them.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mjwest:
As a whole, the United states would be listed as a law level of 6 and a government of 4 (and a population level of 8).
For government type, the US is technically a 4; a Representative Democracy, or Republic. In operation, considering the pathetic voting percentages, it is operationally a 9, Impersonal Bureaucracy.
For law level, the US is a 6. Regardless of the legality, it is socially unacceptable to carry weaponry. Regardless of the state and regardless of the legality, if you walk around with a sword or six-shooter strapped to your waist, you are going to be hassled.
However, if you want to push the standard social limits, but stay legal, you have to do your homework.
As an aside, this works just the same in Traveller. Just about any world with a population of 7 or greater (maybe 6 or greater) is likely to have some large variations at the provincial (or state) level.
Just because a world has a lawlevel of 4 doesn't necessarily mean you can carry your pistol anywhere you want, and just because another world has a law level of 9 doesn't necessary mean you can't have a weapon. The player should do their homework, and the referee should make them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Having carried weapons (including swords & holstered firearms) often and openly in Anchorage, Alaska, USofA, I've found little to no hassle in most areas. People tend to assume that you either know what you are doing with it, and thus hassling you is dangerous, or are a complete idiot, and their likely to get blamed for your injuries if they hassle you. It is still exceedingly common to see belt-knives up to 6" worn openly, even in bars. Multi-tools are about a 1-in-3 chance on men around here during the summers. And even the cops tend not to hassle one if one follows the law: Don't take a weapon into a bank, period; check it at the Maitre D's, bouncer's, or hostess' stand for restaurants and public houses (bars) (The management often politely refuses to check blades, but lets them be worn at restaurants; guns usually are refused service unless a badge is with them); leave it at home or in vehicle or check it with the guards at government buildings.
Certainly isn't LL6. More like 4. Some part of the state are more like LL3: no CBR, full-auto, or poison.
But, for encounters with police, I don't go for more than 18 hours without hearing sirens, and I see a cop about 1 time per four hours I'm out, either on foot or driving. I interact with police (or more correctly, have the chance to have them notice if I break laws) at least once per 8 hours out and about. I make eye contact abouut once per 16 hours out and about.
which leads me to feel that the most important aspect of LL codes has nothing to do with weapons at all: LL is the chance per four hours of an encounter with police.
Which, for the US, puts the norm somewhere between 6 and 15, dependant upon locality.
Also, remember that LL codes are not of need uniform.
Last gaming session, the listed LL of the world was 0, with a gov't of Feudal Technocracy. Result: LL0 outside the various shaw's compounds, LL3-20 within, depending on whom, where, and how paranoid. Don't like the restrictions? go work for someone else. Uniformity of Law? none - each boss was a law unto himself, but there were so many that each was effectively independant. The uniformity of law was simply that the local imperial noble would step in (if asked) in murders, and would enforce the CBR prohibitions --- most graphically, too.
------------------
-aramis
=============================================
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!
As a whole, the United states would be listed as a law level of 6 and a government of 4 (and a population level of 8).
For government type, the US is technically a 4; a Representative Democracy, or Republic. In operation, considering the pathetic voting percentages, it is operationally a 9, Impersonal Bureaucracy.
For law level, the US is a 6. Regardless of the legality, it is socially unacceptable to carry weaponry. Regardless of the state and regardless of the legality, if you walk around with a sword or six-shooter strapped to your waist, you are going to be hassled.
However, if you want to push the standard social limits, but stay legal, you have to do your homework.
As an aside, this works just the same in Traveller. Just about any world with a population of 7 or greater (maybe 6 or greater) is likely to have some large variations at the provincial (or state) level.
Just because a world has a lawlevel of 4 doesn't necessarily mean you can carry your pistol anywhere you want, and just because another world has a law level of 9 doesn't necessary mean you can't have a weapon. The player should do their homework, and the referee should make them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Having carried weapons (including swords & holstered firearms) often and openly in Anchorage, Alaska, USofA, I've found little to no hassle in most areas. People tend to assume that you either know what you are doing with it, and thus hassling you is dangerous, or are a complete idiot, and their likely to get blamed for your injuries if they hassle you. It is still exceedingly common to see belt-knives up to 6" worn openly, even in bars. Multi-tools are about a 1-in-3 chance on men around here during the summers. And even the cops tend not to hassle one if one follows the law: Don't take a weapon into a bank, period; check it at the Maitre D's, bouncer's, or hostess' stand for restaurants and public houses (bars) (The management often politely refuses to check blades, but lets them be worn at restaurants; guns usually are refused service unless a badge is with them); leave it at home or in vehicle or check it with the guards at government buildings.
Certainly isn't LL6. More like 4. Some part of the state are more like LL3: no CBR, full-auto, or poison.
But, for encounters with police, I don't go for more than 18 hours without hearing sirens, and I see a cop about 1 time per four hours I'm out, either on foot or driving. I interact with police (or more correctly, have the chance to have them notice if I break laws) at least once per 8 hours out and about. I make eye contact abouut once per 16 hours out and about.
which leads me to feel that the most important aspect of LL codes has nothing to do with weapons at all: LL is the chance per four hours of an encounter with police.
Which, for the US, puts the norm somewhere between 6 and 15, dependant upon locality.
Also, remember that LL codes are not of need uniform.
Last gaming session, the listed LL of the world was 0, with a gov't of Feudal Technocracy. Result: LL0 outside the various shaw's compounds, LL3-20 within, depending on whom, where, and how paranoid. Don't like the restrictions? go work for someone else. Uniformity of Law? none - each boss was a law unto himself, but there were so many that each was effectively independant. The uniformity of law was simply that the local imperial noble would step in (if asked) in murders, and would enforce the CBR prohibitions --- most graphically, too.
------------------
-aramis
=============================================
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mjwest:
For law level, the US is a 6. Regardless of the legality, it is socially unacceptable to carry weaponry. Regardless of the state and regardless of the legality, if you walk around with a sword or six-shooter strapped to your waist, you are going to be hassled.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Book 2 indicates that law level represents "force of law" rather than "force of custom." In the U.S., the federal government prohibits only "Body pistols undetectable by standard detectors," "poison gas" and, I think, "bombs." So it is at least law level one. Law level two
(lasers) would not be applicable. At a federal level, "Weapons of a strict military nature" (3) and SMGs (4) are avaialble only with a permit, and only, I believe, to citizens. For purposes of Traveller, this probably makes the federal government at least law level 4. As far as states go, a few ban firearms altogether (7) but I have not heard about any bans on long bladed weapons. Other than the few gun-free areas, like Washington, D.C., most states do not prohibit the ownership of pistols. Does that make them law level 4? However, only one state actually allows you to carry a concealed weapon without a license. Most of the rest make you get a license, which is not available to non US citizens but can be had by resident of other states. Is that law level 4 or 5?
There is a lot of wiggle room for players and refs with law level.
Interestingly, Traveller makes pistols illegal at LL5, but in the US pisols are treated like any other weapon, with only whether they are concealed or not being specially regulated.
While I agree that wearing a weapon openly might invite public attention and possibly police harassment, in those areas where it is legal there is nothing the police can do about it. Perhaps the referee could decide there is a social law level, which might be more or less than the actual level.
For law level, the US is a 6. Regardless of the legality, it is socially unacceptable to carry weaponry. Regardless of the state and regardless of the legality, if you walk around with a sword or six-shooter strapped to your waist, you are going to be hassled.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Book 2 indicates that law level represents "force of law" rather than "force of custom." In the U.S., the federal government prohibits only "Body pistols undetectable by standard detectors," "poison gas" and, I think, "bombs." So it is at least law level one. Law level two
(lasers) would not be applicable. At a federal level, "Weapons of a strict military nature" (3) and SMGs (4) are avaialble only with a permit, and only, I believe, to citizens. For purposes of Traveller, this probably makes the federal government at least law level 4. As far as states go, a few ban firearms altogether (7) but I have not heard about any bans on long bladed weapons. Other than the few gun-free areas, like Washington, D.C., most states do not prohibit the ownership of pistols. Does that make them law level 4? However, only one state actually allows you to carry a concealed weapon without a license. Most of the rest make you get a license, which is not available to non US citizens but can be had by resident of other states. Is that law level 4 or 5?
There is a lot of wiggle room for players and refs with law level.
Interestingly, Traveller makes pistols illegal at LL5, but in the US pisols are treated like any other weapon, with only whether they are concealed or not being specially regulated.
While I agree that wearing a weapon openly might invite public attention and possibly police harassment, in those areas where it is legal there is nothing the police can do about it. Perhaps the referee could decide there is a social law level, which might be more or less than the actual level.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by samdx:
Interestingly, Traveller makes pistols illegal at LL5, but in the US pisols are treated like any other weapon, with only whether they are concealed or not being specially regulated.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
While investigating this, I came across the following Alabama law:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Section 13A-11-50
Carrying concealed weapons.
Except as otherwise provided in this Code, a person who carries concealed about his person a bowie knife or knife or instrument of like kind or description or a pistol or firearm of any other kind or an air gun shall, on conviction, be fined not less than $50.00 nor more than $500.00, and may also be imprisoned in the county jail or sentenced to hard labor for the county for not more than six months.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Forget about lasers and plasma guns - what about BB guns!
"|: REGINA/REGINA Date: 283-1105
It was announced today that Daisy Ltd. has been awarded the atmospheric-slug-thrower contract for all Imperial forces in the Spinward Marches, beating out competitor Red Ryder LIC."
Interestingly, Traveller makes pistols illegal at LL5, but in the US pisols are treated like any other weapon, with only whether they are concealed or not being specially regulated.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
While investigating this, I came across the following Alabama law:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Section 13A-11-50
Carrying concealed weapons.
Except as otherwise provided in this Code, a person who carries concealed about his person a bowie knife or knife or instrument of like kind or description or a pistol or firearm of any other kind or an air gun shall, on conviction, be fined not less than $50.00 nor more than $500.00, and may also be imprisoned in the county jail or sentenced to hard labor for the county for not more than six months.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Forget about lasers and plasma guns - what about BB guns!
"|: REGINA/REGINA Date: 283-1105
It was announced today that Daisy Ltd. has been awarded the atmospheric-slug-thrower contract for all Imperial forces in the Spinward Marches, beating out competitor Red Ryder LIC."
So, if I'm walking down the street in say San Francisco's financial district with a laser rifle strapped on my shoulder I should be ok?
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Blue Ghost:
So, if I'm walking down the street in say San Francisco's financial district with a laser rifle strapped on my shoulder I should be ok?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just explain that it is not a gun, but a "surgical device." No need to to explain that it does instant autopsies and reqauires no special training.
BTW, here in Texas carrying any blade 6"+ or a double edged 4"+ , or clubs, tomahawks, swords, spears, etc is illegal (except to and from "sporting events"). From the grumbling on Netsword and SwordForum, that is pretty universal in the US and Europe. Not even a carry permit will help.
A longarm (assault rifle, rifle, shotgun) is legal to carry openly in Texas, but if you start waving it around in a city, you're toast. On the other hand, driving through Massachusettes on the interstate highway with an unloaded shotgun in a locked case can get you jail time.
Now in Traveller I had a .350 (9mm) big game hunting rifle, custom made, a real work of art. It fired full-bore slugs from a five round clip, but extra clips with APDS or HEAP were easy to hide...
So, if I'm walking down the street in say San Francisco's financial district with a laser rifle strapped on my shoulder I should be ok?
Just explain that it is not a gun, but a "surgical device." No need to to explain that it does instant autopsies and reqauires no special training.
BTW, here in Texas carrying any blade 6"+ or a double edged 4"+ , or clubs, tomahawks, swords, spears, etc is illegal (except to and from "sporting events"). From the grumbling on Netsword and SwordForum, that is pretty universal in the US and Europe. Not even a carry permit will help.
A longarm (assault rifle, rifle, shotgun) is legal to carry openly in Texas, but if you start waving it around in a city, you're toast. On the other hand, driving through Massachusettes on the interstate highway with an unloaded shotgun in a locked case can get you jail time.
Now in Traveller I had a .350 (9mm) big game hunting rifle, custom made, a real work of art. It fired full-bore slugs from a five round clip, but extra clips with APDS or HEAP were easy to hide...
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