Adventurer: CT and OD&D. What if ?

[captainjack]

You seem to be assuming that a rogue is a criminal. That's not the case. It covers all kinds of scamps and vagabonds -- some of which are criminals, I admit. IMO 'rogue' is a perfect synonym for 'other' in the Traveller sense.


Hans

Is this backwards day ? I'm not trying to pick a fight, but isn't that what I said ?o:

[FONT=arial,helvetica]More importantly, I'm not assuming that other = rogue. As in LBB1, it covers all other kinds of adventurer -some of which are rogues, I admit. So, that + OD&D having no Thief = Other.

[/FONT]

perhaps the line wrap at the end is the cause of the confusion?

To clarify.
1. I'm not assuming that other = criminal.
2. In D&D terms rogue and thief are semi synonymous, especially nowadays
3. In D&D thief didn't necc mean criminal
4. However, the D&D I'm using doesnt have a thief, rogue or whatever, so really, other =other.

Other = (clarified from above) [FONT=arial,helvetica]As in LBB1, it covers all other kinds of adventurer -some of which are rogues, of whom some are (presumably ) criminals.

Does that help ?

Of should I just say: "no".
[/FONT]

 

[aramis]

Ah yes, never mind then

I think I'd kind of deduced that from the first but swiftly forgot it. Come to think though, what are we (you) talking when you say OD&D? What were the classes? Fighter, Cleric, and Wizard? I vaguely recall Elf, Dwarf, and ?? (Halfling??) being classes, careers or whatever (not races) too in what I think of when I talk OD&D.

In any case do carry on

The issue there is one of Terminology Confusion.

TSR used "CD&D" for little white book/little brown book D&D, and OD&D for BECMI.

Most old schoolers reject that labelling, and use OD&D for LWB/LBB, and BECMI or Mentzer for the BECMI/Cyclopedia game.

Little Book didn't do racial classes; it was Fighter, Mage, Cleric in core, plus Thief, Assassin, Druid, Ranger, Monk and Paladin in supplements.

BECMI had Fighter, Magic User, Cleric, Thief, Elf, Dwarf, Halfling in the core, Druid, Paladin and Avenger in later boxes as (effectively) prestige classes, and Mystic as an optional class.

 

[rancke]

1. I'm not assuming that other = criminal.
2. In D&D terms rogue and thief are semi synonymous, especially nowadays
3. In D&D thief didn't necc mean criminal.

Ah, there's the source of my confusion. I assume that thieves are criminals, but that 'rogue' covers certain non-criminals too, making rogue ~ other.

Other = (as above) [FONT=arial,helvetica]As in LBB1, it covers all other kinds of adventurer -some of which are rogues, some of whom are (presumably ) criminals.

Does that help ?[/FONT]

Except that some rogues ARE criminals, so your categories seem a bit mixed-up.


Hans

 

[captainjack]

Let's not forget the monsters, such as the Lion Men, or the Dog Men.

They're the player races.......as well as the centaurs and the dragonettes and the ...um....magic walking footstool mop beasts ?

Hmmmm.

 

[captainjack]

Ah, there's the source of my confusion. I assume that thieves are criminals, but that 'rogue' covers certain non-criminals too, making rogue ~ other.


Except that some rogues ARE criminals, so your categories seem a bit mixed-up.


Hans

It is backwards day.

Isn't the above exactly what

[FONT=arial,helvetica]
Other = (clarified from above) [FONT=arial,helvetica]As in LBB1, it covers all other kinds of adventurer -some of which are rogues, of whom some are (presumably ) criminals.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica][FONT=arial,helvetica]
means ?

Regardless. We .....agree......?
[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[far-trader]

The issue there is one of Terminology Confusion.

Thanks (it's that and my foggy memory blending them a bit...)

By the way, and I'm sure it'll make sense when I see it, but I don't recall seeing BECMI before and a quick google didn't help. What's the (I presume) acronym stand for?

 

[captainjack]

Thanks (it's that and my foggy memory blending them a bit...)

By the way, and I'm sure it'll make sense when I see it, but I don't recall seeing BECMI before and a quick google didn't help. What's the (I presume) acronym stand for?

I think its the Basic( - Blue and later Red boxes) and the expert set and ...Immortals ?
Anyway, just after the white or brown box editions, and just before and then overlapping with the AD&D sets. Not sure what CMI means -is one of them Moldvay, the author ?

Basic was the entry drug for many a young D&D player; it was also crippleware -Basic only had rules for going up to level 3. And to myself and my friends oh-so-sophisticated 18 year old eyes, it looked like it was pitched at kids -and kids who weren't even gamers.
So we avoided it. Our loss; I never really liked AD&D very much, except in potential.

Sounds like we need an orientation thread.......

 

[captainjack]

The issue there is one of Terminology Confusion.

TSR used "CD&D" for little white book/little brown book D&D, and OD&D for BECMI.

Most old schoolers reject that labelling, and use OD&D for LWB/LBB, and BECMI or Mentzer for the BECMI/Cyclopedia game.

Little Book didn't do racial classes; it was Fighter, Mage, Cleric in core, plus Thief, Assassin, Druid, Ranger, Monk and Paladin in supplements.

BECMI had Fighter, Magic User, Cleric, Thief, Elf, Dwarf, Halfling in the core, Druid, Paladin and Avenger in later boxes as (effectively) prestige classes, and Mystic as an optional class.

Geek point ! Ranger was never in the supplements; only in a strategic Review article, possibly a reprint, and then in AD&D.

Thank you. I feel much better now.

 

[far-trader]

Ye gods. I'd forgotten entirely about Immortals.

...Sounds like we need an orientation thread.

Or sidebar, one post should cover it I think. Wouldn't hurt the way my memory is

I'd do it but can't be trusted (obviously ) and I'm sure it's been done, just my google fu is weak this eve and I'm not finding a good one (a few bad ones, incomplete ones).

EDIT: Ah! Of course: Basic, Expert, Companion, Master and Immortals rules.

 

[captainjack]

Ye gods. I'd forgotten entirely about Immortals.


EDIT: Ah! Of course: Basic, Expert, Companion, Master and Immortals rules.

YES !

Thanks !

 

[aramis]

Ah! Of course: Basic, Expert, Companion, Master and Immortals rules.

YES !

Thanks !

Indeed, that's what it means. BECMI and BXCMI are both used, pretty much interchangeably.

On the D&D score, Rogue is a 3E-ism. OD&D, BECMI, AD&D 1, and AD&D2 all had Thieves, not Rogues.

 

[ShapeShifter]

Never in my life have I ever seen BXCMI. o:

 

[aramis]

Never in my life have I ever seen BXCMI. o:

You've simply not been looking in the right places. BX instead of BE comes from the labels of the related modules:
Basic B1 to B?
Expert X1 to X?
Companion C1 to C?
Master M1 to M?

 

[aramis]

Jack, adding attachments other than in post one puts the attachment in a place that it can be orphaned (Delete the first post, and the whole thread's posts go into limbo, and any attachments to them have to be deleted by hand on the server...); instead, they belong in the files area. Which is where your post got moved.

Post moved to: http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=21819

You can, however, safely link to files in the files area.

File at AdvSkills.doc

 

[ShapeShifter]

You've simply not been looking in the right places. BX instead of BE comes from the labels of the related modules:
Basic B1 to B?
Expert X1 to X?
Companion C1 to C?
Master M1 to M?

I'm not saying that 'BXCMI' is an invalid lifestyle choice. Whatever works for you. I should have said more plainly 'In my 28 years of experience with D&D I have never seen BXCMI, but only BECMI.' The latter is simply more pronounceable, IMGO (In my grognardian opinion).

On another note, I'm very eager to get a look at this Wanderer I've been hearing about. *rubbing hands together in hot anticipation*

 

[BlackBat242]

OK, here is the full info.

OD&D stands for the original D&D rules set:
Chainmail (rules for miniature fantasy figures) published 1971,
Books 1-3 (Men & Magic, Monsters & Treasure, The Underworld & Wilderness Adventures) published 1974,
Supplements 1 & 2 (Greyhawk, Blackmoor) published 1975,
Supplements 3 & 4 (Eldritch Wizardry and Gods, Demi-Gods and Heroes) published 1976


Holmes Basic stands for the D&D rules written by J Eric Holmes:
Basic Set (blue box) (levels 1–3) published 1977 as a "lead in" intro for AD&D


B/X stands for the D&D rules sets written by Tom Moldvay (B) and Dave {Zeb} Cook & Steve Marsh (X):
Basic Set (magenta box) (levels 1-3) published 1981
Expert Set (light blue box) (levels 4–14) published 1981


BECMI stands for Frank Mentzer's D&D rules set:
Basic Set (red box) (levels 1-3) published 1983,
Expert Set (blue box) (levels 4–14) published 1983,
Companion Set (levels 15–25) published 1983;
Master Set (levels 26–36) published 1984, &
Immortals Set (levels 36+) published 1985


The rules from Mentzer's sets were used to make the Rules Cyclopedia (RC) single book (levels 1–36) published in 1991 and Wrath of the Immortals (levels 36+) published in 1992.

There were also several editions of an introductory boxed set, including the Dungeons & Dragons Game (1991), the Classic Dungeons & Dragons Game (1994) and the Dungeons & Dragons Adventure Game (1999).



Moldvay's Basic was an extensive revision of Holmes' Basic rules, and Mentzer's Basic & Expert replaced all earlier rules.

 

[captainjack]

Files split to accomodate upload size, moved to files area, latest versions linked to first post in thread.

 

[captainjack]

I'm opening another thread for actual editorial comments and feedback on the rules. I actually like the "old school" and theory discussion here, so no need to stop.

 

[spinwardpirate]

I'm not saying that 'BXCMI' is an invalid lifestyle choice. Whatever works for you. I should have said more plainly 'In my 28 years of experience with D&D I have never seen BXCMI, but only BECMI.' The latter is simply more pronounceable, IMGO (In my grognardian opinion).

In my 30+ years, same here. But it doesn't surprise me. People like to do that kind of stuff. Whatever.

Yeah, so I've been playing D&D for quite a long time now. My current campaign is a 4e game. It's fun. The designers have made a well-balanced game. I can come up with an encounter and have a good idea about how the players will fare. But... as they've gone up in level, it has gotten more complex than I was expecting. Lots of people with lots of powers means game delay.

That's one of the things I like about Traveller. It is a good system for dressing up in other clothes - fantasy, historical or science fiction. It can easily be twisted in any direction.

 

[captainjack]

In my 30+ years, same here. But it doesn't surprise me. People like to do that kind of stuff. Whatever.

Yeah, so I've been playing D&D for quite a long time now. My current campaign is a 4e game. It's fun. The designers have made a well-balanced game. I can come up with an encounter and have a good idea about how the players will fare. But... as they've gone up in level, it has gotten more complex than I was expecting. Lots of people with lots of powers means game delay.

That's pretty much what killed the local game eventually. Everything started taking forever.

That's one of the things I like about Traveller. It is a good system for dressing up in other clothes - fantasy, historical or science fiction. It can easily be twisted in any direction.

As no doubt is obvious, I agree.....