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Across a Billion Years

CarlP

SOC-11
Okay, first off, I want to warn anybody reading this--I am going to try to avoid any spoilers in this first post, but i think it likely that there will be spoilers in this thread, if it develops any interest.

Okay, having taken care of that warning, has anybody read Robert Silverberg's book "Across a Billion Years"? I've just started re-reading it once again. I think it's a great story about solving the mystery of an ancient civilization.

I re-read "Secret of the Ancients" recently, too, and don't really care for much of it. Has anybody else replaced their Ancients with something else? I'm considering doing that with the High Ones from Silverberg's story.
 
First post from me too. I read Across a Billion Years and once played in someones campain who based it totaly on the book. I torked the GM off
by reveailing we were looking for a Dyson sphere, but the rest of the group had no idea what it was anyway. it turned out it was in a pocket universe that grandfather had missed in the final war. We played it for about a year.
Aaron
 
I read Silverburg, before I found Classic Traveller, and no doubt it colored my take on the whole Ancients idea. Of course now I'll have to hunt through my paperbacks and re-read it since this reminds me I'm foggy on the details. I always figured it was a part of Marc's library too and sourced some inspiration, but that's just a guess, its a well visited Sf theme after all.

I have read "Secret of the Ancients" if you mean MJD's recent story. If you mean the CT adventure I think its one we never got around to playing so I can't comment there. I did run a couple home-brew adventures about Ancients sites. In both cases I wouldn't say I replaced anything, just borrowed from the greats and put my own spin on it. Of course this was before we were all jaded by the whole story coming out. I think if I use the Ancients in any way beyond simple background color I'll have to come up with a new hook just to keep the players off balance.

This could be a great topic CarlP, I hope it gets some interest and debate. And welcome aboard Aaron, the more the merrier.
 
Yes, I've replaced the OTU explanation of the Ancients IMTU.

The Droyne aren't the core of it anymore (I never really did relate to them well).

There are clues to be found here and there. IMTU, I have an intermediate civilization, the Nithosians (whose homeworld has never been located), who existed in The Beyond, Vanguard Reaches area about -25,000. They fought among themselves until the achieved extinction, but they also pursued the history of the Ancients. There are indirect clues about the Ancients to be found by looking into the ruins of the Nithosians.

As for the full secret . . . heh, I'm keeping that to myself.

Known Facts:

1) The Ancients are still widely held to have been the mechanism behind the scattering of the races of humaniti, and the uplift of the vargr (and possibly a few other species, some unrelated to Terra, as well).

2) In 1102, a Imperial Ministory of Science study was released on Capital/Core. It was of Vilani, Solomani, Zhodani, and several minor human races. It covered mitochondrial DNA and descendent Enzyeme evolutionary analysis. The primary conclusion was that all the races shared a common ancestor, including the Solomani. The corallary was that the Terrans, despite having originated on their world, were not original unmodified stock. They were as altered as the other branches of humaniti. This, naturally, has created a firestorm of protests and denials from the Solomani Confederation.

3) In 1108 (the news of which has barely reached the far end of the Imperium by 1110), a Nithosian holographic memory crystal was located on Floria/Trojan Reaches. When it was decoded, it was found to contain a partial translation of one Ancient's script into the Nithosian language. This particular Ancient's script has been found on approximately nine other worlds in the Four Sectors area. The Florian League government has taken possession of the materials and has, so far, refused to share it with anyone.

4) The technology of the Ancients appears to be psionically related (which is one of the reasons for the Imperium's heavy Ancient's tech restrictions).

5) There appear to be approximately five separate technologies and styles of architecture and engineering extant from the -300,000 age, and these materials and civilizations, collectively, are known as the Ancients. So little is left of these materials that not much is known of their physical characteristics, one race, or many, no one knows. (In much the same way that Earth couldn't figure out what the Heechee looked like in Fredrick Pohl's books).

6) Some Ancients facilities appear destroyed by war, other appear abandoned and decayed by three hundred millennia's passage of time.

7) Ancients technology, even when found, isn't functioning 99% of the time. The number of known functioning artifacts ever located is less than five hundred.

8) Some Nithosian artifacts are mistaken for Ancients artifacts by the credulous or the uninitiated, especially if there is nothing written on the artifact.


Or, on the face of it, not too different from the standard story, only a few apparent tweaks off canon (not counting the Nithosian add-on).
 
The primary conclusion was that all the races shared a common ancestor, including the Solomani. The corallary was that the Terrans, despite having originated on their world, were not original unmodified stock. They were as altered as the other branches of humaniti.
How would one prove that the Terrans were not "original unmodified stock"? Is there some telltale genetic signs that indicates external tinkering?
 
Originally posted by Malenfant:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />The primary conclusion was that all the races shared a common ancestor, including the Solomani. The corallary was that the Terrans, despite having originated on their world, were not original unmodified stock. They were as altered as the other branches of humaniti.
How would one prove that the Terrans were not "original unmodified stock"? Is there some telltale genetic signs that indicates external tinkering? </font>[/QUOTE]In this particular version, they all show genes (in the mitochondrial DNA) and the descendant enzymes that all indicate the same artifical tampering.

Solomani scientists have issued their own studies indicating that the pure Solomani have no tampering in their mitochondrial DNA, that enzyme descendant analysis is inconclusive, and that the Ancients did nothing but carry some of them away between -400,000 and -300,000.

Imperial scientists say that is too long a time frame for separation, and that their species should have diverged more than they did since then.

It's all one big lovely argument.
 
Ancients have always remained in the plural in my Traveller universe. Although, the OTU has always insisted that none but the Droyne ought to be called Ancient this seems a tad limiting.

When I was toying with an idea of an Ancients milieu sourcebook...Marc did agree with me that the time of the Ancients there were a myriad of civilizations that could be called Ancients including some of the humans who would whiz around the universe like Lensmen. Quicklink seems to also favor this interpetation if you look carefully at Gateway to Destiny there are many Ancient civilization on a myriad of worlds and boundless mysteries which are not neccessarily linked to the Droyne story arc that played itself out in CT.

As for me I wanted to make the Ancient milieu completely unrecognizable to the contemporary Traveller player. This would be like what Planescape did to classic AD&D but as my partner (Swordy) and I never got around to finishing it. Someday, I hope to go back and finish but all the files are on a Hard Drive that got its connectors melted when my computer caught fire...so...
 
Originally posted by kafka47:
Ancients have always remained in the plural in my Traveller universe. Although, the OTU has always insisted that none but the Droyne ought to be called Ancient this seems a tad limiting.

When I was toying with an idea of an Ancients milieu sourcebook...Marc did agree with me that the time of the Ancients there were a myriad of civilizations that could be called Ancients including some of the humans who would whiz around the universe like Lensmen. Quicklink seems to also favor this interpetation if you look carefully at Gateway to Destiny there are many Ancient civilization on a myriad of worlds and boundless mysteries which are not neccessarily linked to the Droyne story arc that played itself out in CT.
And I get to see a product on the shelf . . . when? <he says, hopefully />

Melted Hard Drives should just delay it . . . right? <he says, as a 100 dTon hammer hits him square on the head />
 
IMTU: The history of the 'Ancients' pretty much follows that of the 'Stargate SG-1' milieu, with races adapted from other gaming systems and the popular media. The 'Great war' did not just involve Grandfather trying to wipe out his offspring, but the Gua'uld that infested them (why else would they rebel in the first place?).

The Ancients were the Greys (Asgardians), Illithids (Mind Flayers), Arcanae, Vorlon (First Ones), and Shadows ("... old when even the Ancients were young..."), as well as the Droyne precursors.

The Gua'uld, of course, are no more than parasitic fish-snakes with no culture or technology of their own. They arrived on the scene after a Droyne experiment in uplifting primitive lifeforms turned out not quite the way the scientists intended. The galaxy has been 'going downhill' ever since.
 
Originally posted by kafka47:
Ancients have always remained in the plural in my Traveller universe. Although, the OTU has always insisted that none but the Droyne ought to be called Ancient this seems a tad limiting.
Ancients with a capital A, there are other ancient races mentioned - although only one is named ;)
The First Starfarers sidebar on page 9 of the MT Referee's Manual is worth reading and then thinking "what if some of them, or their legacy, is still around?". Hmm...
That the Primordials existed is part of the OTU, do they still? It's up to the individual ref to decide.
 
"In truth, you know next to nothing about the Ancients. And everything you know is wrong."
 
IMTU, the Ancients follow the B5 model with multiple layers of master/servant/pawn races, each ascending through the spectrum until they either become bored with corporal existence, destroy themselves, or are utterly wiped out.
 
IMTU there isn't anything close to the OTU story line at any point: no Ancients, no other races, no 2D universe.
 
Originally posted by Straybow:
IMTU there isn't anything close to the OTU story line at any point: no Ancients, no other races, no 2D universe.
At any point in . . . what? What doesn't have Ancients, other races, or a 2D universe?
 
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