Brian Daley had an interesting take on technology as a long-term investment in "Han Solo and the Lost Legacy".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Han_Solo_Adventures#Han_Solo_at_Stars.27_End
A universal monetary unit
- Thread starter Enoki
- Start date
Brian Daley had an interesting take on technology as a long-term investment in "Han Solo and the Lost Legacy".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Han_Solo_Adventures#Han_Solo_at_Stars.27_End
For simplicity I use the Imperial credit in my games for this reason. Unless needed for the story that I am trying to tell I assume that everyone will accept the Imperial Credit as payment as they will be able to get it exchanged into whatever currency they want at some point.
I think of it as using an Amex card when you travel. The vendors accept it because they know that the currency you (the buyer) pays to Amex is completely independent of the currency they get paid in.
Of course there are always exceptions that may get tossed in there. And if the players are inside an area controlled by someone else (Zhodani, Aslan, etc) then the assumption would be that they are using that currency. In those cases I may have them find a broker to exchange their currency, but it can be done.
And for this reason I assume that unless they are actually in a different empire that Imperial Credits are welcome. Remember that even in "neutral space" that starports are run by megacorps and those megacorps usually have a tie to one of the major political players so would probably use their currency.
I think that unless it is required for the story, that it should just be left as is. There are enough things for us to keep track of, both as players and GMs, in this game that we don't need an additional layer of complexity!
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Fun things to do-
1) Currency exchange rates being a trade item themselves, and making a killing or loss converting them to/from CrImp.
2) Perhaps part of the adventure IS currency-related- hard asset shipment between polities, crypto interception/decryption/hacking, etc.
3) Hard currency exchange mediums are subject to value changes as well, perhaps a polity outlaws transaction exchanges in a specific commodity, a new refining process or major strike depresses the value or a mining disaster increases the price.
1) Currency exchange rates being a trade item themselves, and making a killing or loss converting them to/from CrImp.
2) Perhaps part of the adventure IS currency-related- hard asset shipment between polities, crypto interception/decryption/hacking, etc.
3) Hard currency exchange mediums are subject to value changes as well, perhaps a polity outlaws transaction exchanges in a specific commodity, a new refining process or major strike depresses the value or a mining disaster increases the price.
not to mention deliberate outright manipulation, like what the rothschild's did with silver. can make a whole lotta people with a whole lotta money real mad, hire mercenaries, start "backwater" "insurgencies" for "political reasons" or "bandit raids" "looking for loot" or assassinations for "personal reasons" ....
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Sure, all of this potential trouble should trigger 'gaming material' to the attuned ref.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
If we think of the Opium Wars, some planet has a commodity that's in demand in the Imperium, but doesn't want to exchange it for Imperium Credits, but for something equally rare.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
In this context, perhaps Agathics.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Stroon and Spice, both anagathics and sometimes more, from animals that can only exist on one planet.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
First, I would not be so sure of that.
Second, if that is the case, of what point is interstellar trade? Movement of people would occur, but how do you justify movement of goods?
economics. if a tech 10 agricultural world can make widgets at 10Cr ea, but a nearby tech 8 industrialized world can make those same widgets for 4Cr ea and ship them for 1Cr ea, then guess who sells the widgets and who buys the widgets?
now if planet A has a monopoly on anagathic animals and sells anagathics for a gazillion Cr/dose, then planets B->Z are going to try to get some of those animals and breed them locally and they'll spend a bazillion Cr each to do it. given the traveller setting one may easily foresee success.
after a rollicking good player character adventure finding and kidnapping some anagathic animals, of course. I sense an adventure seed here somewhere ....
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
Unless planet A is very careful about allowing anyone to get their hands on those animals. RE: Japan and Kobe beef...
Planet A might even go so far as to cut off those who did succeed in stealing an animal or two from any trade and threatening other planets who might buy from the thief.
Far fewer than the Industrialized world would like, because Cr7 of opportunity cost and jingoism cancels a huge amount of trade value.
For example: I could buy Idaho grown potatoes for $4 a bag... but I can buy fresher Alaska Grown potatoes for $5 a bag. Or spend $5 in gas to buy them for $4/bag at the farm.
Yes, some Idaho potatoes get sold in Alaska... but many people are shocked that Alaska potatoes outsell them amongst the poorest neighborhoods.
Likewise, if I want a custom computer, I can have it tomorrow by going down to the local guru. I'll pay about 25% more, but have it tomorrow, versus some point next month. And that's not accounting for the warranty issues of external purchase.
There are literally thousands of exemplars disproving the "the lower price always gets the sale"...
The big reasons:
- Opportunity cost - minimum 2 week delay in the OTU to order out
- Local Sourcing Preference - usually citing
- Local Job Creation
- Local self-sustenance capability
- Jingoism and Xenophobia
- Local cosmetic variants
- sufficiency of supply - if A needs more widgets than B can offer, A will make them locally to make up the difference
- Brand Loyalty
- Local Seasonality (usually an issue with produce, not dry goods, but seasonal demand for dry goods...)
- Transport availability - it's much easier to arrange on-world transports in most cases
- Simple hassles of dealing with remote suppliers
I'm not saying there won't be trade, but there are many reasons why people on A will not buy I's widgets, even tho I's are less expensive.
And, as we in the real world start crossing firmly into late TL8, possibly TL9, we also have the issue of rapid manufacture devices... we're starting to see a lot of ordered-out industrial stuff being replaced with local CNC Lathe/Router/Mill machines and big blocks of remote acquired metal. In some strange places, no less. Like a Machine Shop in Tok. And a major CNC machine in Seward (there's a repair yard there), and one slated to go in at Dutch Harbor. I'm told there's one in Kodiak, too.
The "Hassle factor" opportunity cost often outweighs the actual strict opportunity cost (which is how much do you lose by not getting it sooner).
There's also the issue of on-world shipping in Traveller... It's not just how much does it cost to get the part on-world, but you still have to distribute it on-world... If A's manufactury is decentralized, I's goods have to compete with local sourced by adding not only the Cr1 to get it across the black, but also the Cr1 to Cr2 to ship it from the starport to the local consumers' warehouses.
It takes a surprisingly steep differential to cause a shutdown, in the modern world at least, and the 3I is comprised of a large majority of people living on worlds that have local histories including near total loss of interstellar trade and the devastations that it can cause.
There should be a lot more trade paranoia than many want to give credit for. (Yes, another intentional pun.)
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
You have seasonal demand for spare parts and equipment as well. I worked for Allis-Chalmers shipping repair parts to help pay for college. During the winter months, little demand from the northern part of the country for agricultural machinery and parts, in Spring around March and April, bulge in demand for initial plowing, then it eased off, then another bulge in demand when harvesting started, along with a lot more air freight and overnight shipments, then in about October, things died off again.
Otherwise a good discussion of how the real world economy works.
A lot of people go with the adage, "you get what you pay for." A lower price may imply lower quality or reliability or lower usable life expectancy.
Two other things to consider based on history. The United States Smoot-Hawley tariff, see here:
http://future.state.gov/when/timeline/1921_timeline/smoot_tariff.html
The United States Jones Act, regulating shipping between US ports.
Side Note on Potatoes: Idaho potatoes are cheaper at the commissary here than either Yukon Gold or Gold potatoes. We buy the Yukon Gold or Gold because they taste much better than the Idaho, which to me are tasteless.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Think about cell phones and computers, they've become commoditized.
The high end hand phone is dominated by Apple and Samsung, but at the mid range the Chinese will eat their lunch.
At some point, you don't really need better performance.
The high end hand phone is dominated by Apple and Samsung, but at the mid range the Chinese will eat their lunch.
At some point, you don't really need better performance.
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
But, the important thing about electronics in this realm is how the "best" doesn't always become the market standard. What happens instead is one version becomes dominant for some reason, usually not for being the best, and it is the one everyone uses.
For example, there are other keyboards besides the "QWERTY" version. But, that's the one everybody pretty much uses.
There are numerous operating systems for computers but DOS / Windows dominates PC's, UNIX is dominant with larger systems.
Cars and trucks all use a pretty similar layout for driving but there are plenty of others that went by the wayside, some arguably much better too.
What you could expect in Traveller is something of the same at least by race.
It would also be important in terms of trade. Let's say the equivalent of a cell phone / tablet were being manufactured by some world. It sells well enough except to those worlds of a nearby minor race who don't want the ones they make because they don't fit the language well.
It could be something as simple as trying to sell right handed scissors on a planet where everyone is left handed.
Selling high end, high tech "stuff" on a mid tech world might not be possible or profitable simply because there's really no way to make use of the "stuff" as the market planet's infrastructure won't accommodate it. How long would a lap top computer be of value in 1815?
For example, there are other keyboards besides the "QWERTY" version. But, that's the one everybody pretty much uses.
There are numerous operating systems for computers but DOS / Windows dominates PC's, UNIX is dominant with larger systems.
Cars and trucks all use a pretty similar layout for driving but there are plenty of others that went by the wayside, some arguably much better too.
What you could expect in Traveller is something of the same at least by race.
It would also be important in terms of trade. Let's say the equivalent of a cell phone / tablet were being manufactured by some world. It sells well enough except to those worlds of a nearby minor race who don't want the ones they make because they don't fit the language well.
It could be something as simple as trying to sell right handed scissors on a planet where everyone is left handed.
Selling high end, high tech "stuff" on a mid tech world might not be possible or profitable simply because there's really no way to make use of the "stuff" as the market planet's infrastructure won't accommodate it. How long would a lap top computer be of value in 1815?
And yet, Apple and Samsung are dominating the sales...
And doing this by having them built by the same chinese factories building LG and several other brands' hardware.
