5.09 Melee

[Spartan159]

How much damage? Type of damage? I am assuming cut with blades but what about unarmed? Does Strength have a bearing on damage? What about if wearing powered armor? When doing so does Battledress knowledge and Unarmed Knowledge or Blade Knowledge stack with fighter? (aka S+K+K+Str) ... Just realized the average person in powered armor is going to have a Str of 70, you do NOT want to be hit/cut by someone in powered armor, as it should be.

 

[Original_Carl]

This is confusing. If you look at p128 it's either 2d hits or 3d hits depending on whether you want to resolve the entire fight in one roll, or resolve one round of the fight, respectively. There's no other reference to calculating hits in unarmed melee that I can find.

How about Str hits? Then add additional d according to weapon.

 

[Supplement Four]

Fists do 1D damage, per the table on page 211.

 

[Licheking]

Just realized the average person in powered armor is going to have a Str of 70, you do NOT want to be hit/cut by someone in powered armor, as it should be.

Yes correct but then it doesn't change the blade or fist damage only making sure that you hit.

As far as i'm aware you can only ever add 1 Knowledge to a skill and Attribute for the purposes of a task. And knowing how to wear and maintain your Battledress doesn't necessarily make you a better fighter, although if you have Battledress-1, you do have Fighter at least at 0.

 

[Original_Carl]

According to the table on P.211 Fists do D1 = C1 and D2 = 1d, so what is that? Str + 1d for a punch from a human?

 

[David Johansen]

That seems awfully high. I'm not sure what punch damage should be. Even if one's comparing a full minute of pounding on the target, 2d is gunshot damage, C1 + 1d is 3d.

 

[robject]

That seems awfully high. I'm not sure what punch damage should be. Even if one's comparing a full minute of pounding on the target, 2d is gunshot damage, C1 + 1d is 3d.

Does seem high. I know 'cinematic' fist-fights can get dangerous, but I don't know. Resolution does not support a blow-by-blow fistfight though, which means higher damage could be justifiable.

 

[David Johansen]

No, Marc gets enough grief about the 1d pistol as it is. Considered in the light of the 1d punch?

Me, I'd just add 1d to all the Gun Maker damages. Yes ALL the Gun Maker damages. This isn't GI Joe the roleplaying game. Okay, yes I did run a CT GI Joe based game at one point.

Anyhow, Why not just make the damage 1 point per 2 points of success on the attack roll? That lets the high brawling high strength guy be scary and keeps Joe average to around 3 points tops.

 

[Supplement Four]

According to the table on P.211 Fists do D1 = C1 and D2 = 1d, so what is that? Str + 1d for a punch from a human?

No. Fists are just 1D damage.

The page is unchanged from the original printing. The column marked D1 is meant for NPCs. It's a quick damage system where a successful attack done by a person's "Fists" do damage to the NPC equal to the C1 attribute (STR). There is no variation. This is meant to be a quick-n-simple system. GMs can use it for hordes of NPCs.

It's a nice idea, but I think the system is still flawed. Under this method, NPCs are either hurt or incapacitated. Any damage done that is 9 points or less is ignored. Damage of 10 or more points incapacitates the NPC.

What I don't like about this should be obvious. Any character with STR A or better will automatically incapacitate every foe he hits with one blow (well, it's an abstract round--so, maybe it's many blows) inside of one combat round.

The new combat round averages 15 seconds long. So, this means anyone who is STR A or better can incapacitate any foe he hits, regardless of skill, as long he has STR A+.

Yeah. Don't like that. Needs to be worked on and changed.

Note that the simple system seems to be scrapped, from what I've seen of the test documents. If this is, indeed the case, then that D1 column needs to be removed.







For the regular damage system, Fists do 1D damage.

The damage that NPCs do against player characters (and the damage used against NPCs if the simple system is not used by the GM) is shown in column marked Hits (V1). So, Fists do 1D damage.

 

[David Johansen]

1 point if you can roll under C1 on 2d is probably pretty realistic.

 

[Supplement Four]

1 point if you can roll under C1 on 2d is probably pretty realistic.

I don't think I'd jump on that too fast.

First off, the new combat system has waaay too many rolls, imo. You don't want to add another one.

Second, if you go by the book, then each die of damage has its own hit location. If you hit with your fist doing 2d damage, then you'd roll hit location for each die of damage.

 

[David Johansen]

I think you mistake me. I'm saying you can do one point of damage if you can roll under your strength. Really, you could just say a successful attack roll inflicts one point of damage. The higher strength guy just hits more.

 

[Original_Carl]

I think it's reasonable that an individual with high strength and some fighting skill could incapacitate an opponent in 15 seconds. 15 seconds is a lot of fighting unless you're a professional.

 

[aramis]

I think it's reasonable that an individual with high strength and some fighting skill could incapacitate an opponent in 15 seconds. 15 seconds is a lot of fighting unless you're a professional.

15 seconds is about the average length of actual fight in SCA fencing from first action to a telling touch (that is, a touch that would create a fatal wound - either hitting femoral, brachial, the lungs, heart, head, throat, groin, or abdomen) between unequal opponents. Between equals, it's more like 45 seconds to a minute, most of which is spent circling. My longest bout was over 5 minutes, but that was only 12 exchanges, and was finished with a quartet of telling blows - I landed a head and groin, Doug landed a chest and femoral. On video, both of us hit each other within 1 frame... so 1/24 sec. (Under SCA Fence, it's a double kill. Video review has no provenance in the SCA.)

Note that the abdomen hits are unlikely to be instantly incapacitating, but with live steel would be highly likely to be fatal without rapid medical intervention. (Belly lacerations hurt like hell, tho- Accidentally took a dropped box knife to the belly while sheetrocking the house back in '89... Hurt like hell for a week).

 

[Supplement Four]

I think it's reasonable that an individual with high strength and some fighting skill could incapacitate an opponent in 15 seconds. 15 seconds is a lot of fighting unless you're a professional.

I'd agree. The difference, though, in what you say and the rule is that the rule has it happening 100% of the time. And, fighting skill has nothing to do with damage (it only effects how often foes are hit).

STR A? You can bank it.

Using your own words, slightly modified...

Is it reasonable that an individual with high strength and no fighting skill at all will incapacitate every opponent in 15 seconds?

 

[robject]

Is it reasonable that an individual with high strength and no fighting skill at all will incapacitate every opponent in 15 seconds?

60 seconds (but no matter).

For example, Arnold Schwarzenegger versus Don Knotts?

 

[Supplement Four]

60 seconds (but no matter).

For example, Arnold Schwarzenegger versus Don Knotts?

What about Schwarzenegger versus Schwarzenegger. Arnold could take out his clone in 15 seconds?

Ever seen an MMA match?

 

[Original_Carl]

I've seen a few MMA matches. They don't last long, and they're fought by trained professionals in peak physical condition. That's a very limited sample, and shouldn't be considered the norm. They're gladiators after all. Most people aren't, including Travellers.

I think you have to account for strength when calculating melee damage. 1d6 for everyone isn't good enough.

 

[Supplement Four]

I think you have to account for strength when calculating melee damage. 1d6 for everyone isn't good enough.

Well, it is only meant for the NPC quick system, not for PCs. If an NPC hits a PC, then the NPC does 1d6 damage.

Given that stats are 2D, I think 1D damage for fists is fine.



What I don't like is that a player can 100% count on taking out his foe, one per round, if he hits, when he has STR A+. I don't like that at all. It shouldn't be automatic.



But, as I said, it seems that the quick NPC damage system has been removed from the rules. So, the argument is probably moot.

 

[Supplement Four]

BTW, the another problem with that quick NPC damage system is that PCs with STR 9 or less cannot damage NPCs, as NPCs ignore damage 9 or less.