3I's Secret Projects/ JumpStart/Beedling Caches/ Etc

[Liam Devlin]

While we're on the topic(s) of the antebellum/ rebellion collapse era, and some mention of LongBow/ Reference has been made. How big a role do you think the Jumpstart caches are going to play in the recovery of the post 1200-1248 era? WHo will have the advanteges? We know Strephon gave all of them to Norris for safe keeping with Arival vengeance mission departing from Usdiki, the only Faction leader to possess all of them.
Margaret had some, as well as the Massilia based Beedling Society's caches as they braced for a "Short Nap" version of the Long Night. There are references to others of Strephon's secret projects, automated shipyards, and such Under Project Vulcan, detailed somewhat by Peter "Black Dawn" Gray on the Tne-list/ BARD web site. Some of these were hidden in deep space locations of former navy Depot systems, many of which (according to "War of the Depots/ MT-rebellion SB, have no GG's, thus vampire wilderness refuelling capabilities are next to nil here).Those of course under the umbrella of the Black Curtain, might be being put to use by the AI-Minds running the show there. Or might they be used by humaniti & sophonts resisting the "occupation?"
Gentlemen/Ladies of the boards, oh Ancient wise ones, your thoughts if you please...?

 

[GBoyett]

Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
While we're on the topic(s) of the antebellum/ rebellion collapse era, and some mention of LongBow/ Reference has been made. How big a role do you think the Jumpstart caches are going to play in the recovery of the post 1200-1248 era? WHo will have the advanteges? We know Strephon gave all of them to Norris for safe keeping with Arival vengeance mission departing from Usdiki, the only Faction leader to possess all of them.
Margaret had some, as well as the Massilia based Beedling Society's caches as they braced for a "Short Nap" version of the Long Night. There are references to others of Strephon's secret projects, automated shipyards, and such Under Project Vulcan, detailed somewhat by Peter "Black Dawn" Gray on the Tne-list/ BARD web site. Some of these were hidden in deep space locations of former navy Depot systems, many of which (according to "War of the Depots/ MT-rebellion SB, have no GG's, thus vampire wilderness refuelling capabilities are next to nil here).Those of course under the umbrella of the Black Curtain, might be being put to use by the AI-Minds running the show there. Or might they be used by humaniti & sophonts resisting the "occupation?"
Gentlemen/Ladies of the boards, oh Ancient wise ones, your thoughts if you please...?

Something tells me the Jumpstart are going to be objective for the various PEs and used to help in claiming the immediate areas around them. The most likely will be the Regency, descendants of Margaret, Black Curtain factions (more on this later), and followers of Craig.

The first venture outside thier respected holdings will be the closets caches. The public version will be reestablishing an interstellar community, which will be true. The actual agenda is to get footholds near the caches so they have immediate benefits.

As time passes, the next group of caches will be acquired, along with contact/survey of the surrounding systems. Sooner or later couple of the factions will bump into PEs, that occupy the space where a jumpstart cache is located but don't know about it, or another faction that is hunting for caches. This is when things are really going to get interesting.

 

[shield]

Liam,

I think you missed a few.

Secret PSI facilities on Terra, and numerous ones in the Marches.
Various deep rift calibration points
Project Blackheart with all those Nemesis class intruder cruisers.
Ancients research (all those Black globes found in the Marches)
All those mini longbows nearer the core.

All these + the ones already mentioned will give any finders a significant headstart - provided they are virus free and the finders can actually understand what they have got (TL16 facilities are a bit beyond TL8 natives)

Cheers
Richard

 

[Liam Devlin]

As a matter of fact, I know I did. Thank you for filling in those blanks Richard! Thats a ton of stuff. Obviously the Regency has the advantage with all the JS info, and Longbow info dumped there by the AV mission. And they have the Blackheart fleets/Nemesis Cruisers (IIRC Joe Brown, me olde friend telling me about these in 94). There's a LOT to be figured in.
Yeppurs, the Regency has the deck stacked for them it seems...in "where they are" dept.
Must concur with GAB though--when they recontact and find PEs about these sites, thats when it gets INTERESTING to say the least...

 

[Arsulon]

I had a word or two to say about the Jumstart cahces in the Solee thread. Basically, I was pointing out what a tremendous advantage they presented for the Regency's expansion into the wildside. They have in their possession the locations and challenge/entry codes for every single cache in the Imperium. This allows them to essentially count on foward bases of supplies and information to help rebuild the local economy and infrastructure as they advance into the Wilds. Bear in mind that the locations are likely lost to local populations: not only do we see a local disruption in government with the Rebellion/ Hard Times/ Collapse, but we also have data archives committing mass-suicide (the most common manifestation of Virus) across the Imperium. As a result, local nascent polities would be LUCKY to know of the existence of Jumpstart caches (they were secret to begin with) let alone their location of entry codes. That leaves the Regency holding all the cards. Not only can they count on them to aid local civilization and likely serve as the center for Regency colonies, but they also represent solid Iridium bargaining chips when dealing with PE's. Imagine the influence you could wield over a remote PE by dangling the promise of locating and cracking open a Jumstart cache. The Regency wouldn't have to resort to conquest, it could use its knowledge to make and break client-states.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Thats a tremendous carrot and stick advantage, I must concede. But it won't be with the RC--they've got Hiver backing instead...! (And have allied themselves with "peacemaker" strained AI's.)

 

[Liam Devlin]

Mr perlot? Secret CowLevel? Any thoughts? Oh Ancient MJD?

 

[shield]

Liam,

Jumpstart caches will still be of value to the RC. The Imperium was solid TL15 with major TL16 gains + the black globes - a unique technology.

The hivers were also TL15 with TL16 in their electronics. There would be gaps in the TL16 knowledge that each side had, and their knowledege would complement each other.

And most importantly the Hivers were knocked back to TL14 at least over near the RC, so they would be after any TL15 stuff they can find.

Cheers
Richard

 

[GBoyett]

Originally posted by RichardP:
Liam,

Jumpstart caches will still be of value to the RC. The Imperium was solid TL15 with major TL16 gains + the black globes - a unique technology.

The hivers were also TL15 with TL16 in their electronics. There would be gaps in the TL16 knowledge that each side had, and their knowledege would complement each other.

And most importantly the Hivers were knocked back to TL14 at least over near the RC, so they would be after any TL15 stuff they can find.

Valid point. Combining the two High tech bases would be a big advantage. With Imperial black globes, Hiver's Tech 16 computers, and experience with Virus, the RC would become a strong threat to the vampire fleets and any opposing PEs they meet (ie everyone else).

 

[Liam Devlin]

Which means the RC-Hiver entity or whatever they call themselves after 1206...will still be one of the "big Players" in the TNE-OTU 4I period.

 

[MJD]

IN 1248, what used to be the RC calls itself the Freedom League.

 

[notagoodusername]

Originally posted by MJD:
IN 1248, what used to be the RC calls itself the Freedom League.

Maintaining freedom from the 4th Imperium maybe? Been in an Imperium once, - never again. Or maybe something to do with thier alliance with the Peacemaker Viruses?

BTW Martin, how much of an impact does Virus still have in 1248? History, or still a factor? What about the Peacemakers and thier ilk?

Shane

 

[MJD]

The Ftreedom League is allied to the 4I, sort of.

Virus is still around, but it's faded into the background more or less.

The Usdiki Sentients' Rights Accords grant stable Virus citizenship.

 

[MJD]

The Ftreedom League is allied to the 4I, sort of.

Virus is still around, but it's faded into the background more or less.

The Usdiki Sentients' Rights Accords grant stable Virus citizenship.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by MJD:

IN 1248, what used to be the RC calls itself the Freedom League.
The Ftreedom League is allied to the 4I, sort of.

Virus is still around, but it's faded into the background more or less.

The Usdiki Sentients' Rights Accords grant stable Virus citizenship.

________________________________________
Hmmm, Strephonist's Stances on Sane Sentience in AI's mirroring the 1204 RC Citizenry accords.(Vampire Fleets). For "Stable" Virus. Most excellent news! Its going to be a bumpy ride from 1204-1248 though. I look forward to running me Gamers thru it though!

 

[GBoyett]

Originally posted by MJD:
The Ftreedom League is allied to the 4I, sort of.

Virus is still around, but it's faded into the background more or less.

The Usdiki Sentients' Rights Accords grant stable Virus citizenship.

Here's question on the right and responsibilities for citizen AIs:

Are we going to see vampire ships becoming naval and merchant marine officers?

Will Virii have the right to procreate? What system can be used for a child?

Developement of android bodies? (Sir AB-101 as an example)

If a Virus invades another system of ship, is that considered rape or bestiality if the "victim" computer is non-sentient?

Will a Virus have the right to have multiple bodies to swap? Will they have the right to remote control/access?

Could a Virus become so sophisticated that they can compartmentalize to the point of having a conversation and each personality has a different or take? (ex. In Andromeda, the AI has two or three aspects: The Holo and Ship Andromeda, and Rommy the android).

 

[Liam Devlin]

GAB posted
"Here's question on the right and responsibilities for citizen AIs:

A)Are we going to see vampire ships becoming naval and merchant marine officers?

B)Will Virii have the right to procreate? What system can be used for a child?

C)Developement of android bodies? (Sir AB-101 as an example)

D)If a Virus invades another system of ship, is that considered rape or bestiality if the "victim" computer is non-sentient?

E)Will a Virus have the right to have multiple bodies to swap? Will they have the right to remote control/access?

F)Could a Virus become so sophisticated that they can compartmentalize to the point of having a conversation and each personality has a different or take? (ex. In Andromeda, the AI has two or three aspects: The Holo and Ship Andromeda, and Rommy the android)."
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A-Yes, in the RC Freedom League, the end of Vampire Fleets hints if allowed control over the MFD's in war with Solee, these AI's become permanent "on-board crewmembers" of the ship, IIRC.

B-Sane parent Strains/ Hobbyists, and Peacemakers would fall into this category (Tho the monomania obssessivenes of the Hobby's might be a factor.)

C-TL-15/16 needed there, though VF has AI vamp bots at TL-10-15 listed in it. Not all pretty like Sir AB 101, or Akasha Sechszehn (AKS-16)imtu.
And who has that? Riddle me that GAB!

D-Moot point, when the Snake AVW is used to "secure" suspected device. Snake is essentailly a virus itself. IMHO, no. Now if allowed to "move in", to a non infected system (to save one's life), I don't think you could fault it. Sanity is the test though, measuring THAT is the toughie.

E-Peacemakers don't make Puppeteer type structures/ Empire/ alliance builders/Reproducing Doomslayers do.
ie, Sandman evacuated his non mobile body for a mobile one to visit RC in 1202. When he cloned-he created another entity with own personality.( a child/ parenting process).

Parent strains in Micheal Koehne (Ger) & my shared opinions would want the best for their "child" in a system, so TL-10 is way out. TL-12 would be a minimum standard acceptable in a computer system for them or better. TL-13 optimum for best results. Having more than one? Depends on supply/ demand, and human tolerances.

F-Sophisticated or schizophrenic? Hmmmmm. Hard scinece vs TV. This one can go either way. OTU, I leave to Hunter & Coy.
IMTU, no.

 

[GBoyett]

Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
GAB posted
"Here's question on the right and responsibilities for citizen AIs:

A)Are we going to see vampire ships becoming naval and merchant marine officers?

B)Will Virii have the right to procreate? What system can be used for a child?

C)Developement of android bodies? (Sir AB-101 as an example)

D)If a Virus invades another system of ship, is that considered rape or bestiality if the "victim" computer is non-sentient?

E)Will a Virus have the right to have multiple bodies to swap? Will they have the right to remote control/access?

F)Could a Virus become so sophisticated that they can compartmentalize to the point of having a conversation and each personality has a different or take? (ex. In Andromeda, the AI has two or three aspects: The Holo and Ship Andromeda, and Rommy the android)."

A-Yes, in the RC Freedom League, the end of Vampire Fleets hints if allowed control over the MFD's in war with Solee, these AI's become permanent "on-board crewmembers" of the ship, IIRC.

Can we say Holly from Red Dwarf?

Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
B-Sane parent Strains/ Hobbyists, and Peacemakers would fall into this category (Tho the monomania obssessivenes of the Hobby's might be a factor.)

Would there be a legal definitions on what is considered an offspring versus a copy?

(In Transhuman Space, the practise of having more than one AI copy running is called Xoxing. This is mostly illegal, especially the practise of scanning a famous person's brain waves and selling copies to people for what ever nefarious uses they want)

Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
C-TL-15/16 needed there, though VF has AI vamp bots at TL-10-15 listed in it. Not all pretty like Sir AB 101, or Akasha Sechszehn (AKS-16)imtu.

And who has that? Riddle me that GAB!

The question was more in the line of What Type (mainframe, vehicles, starship, appliances, robots, etc.).

Sir AB-101, a prototype android, was one of the characters in the DGP Grand Tour campaign. In the first adventure everyone are nominated to knighthood, include Aybee (his name). As mentioned in a previous posting, Emperor Strephon know about him and inquired about tech and cost.

Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
D-Moot point, when the Snake AVW is used to "secure" suspected device. Snake is essentailly a virus itself. IMHO, no. Now if allowed to "move in", to a non infected system (to save one's life), I don't think you could fault it. Sanity is the test though, measuring THAT is the toughie.

Was Snake sentient?

The concept of permission seems right.

Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
F-Sophisticated or schizophrenic? Hmmmmm. Hard scinece vs TV. This one can go either way. OTU, I leave to Hunter & Coy.
IMTU, no.

schizophrenic. I didn't think of that angle.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by George Boyett:
[A-Yes, in the RC Freedom League, the end of Vampire Fleets hints if allowed control over the MFD's in war with Solee, these AI's become permanent "on-board crewmembers" of the ship, IIRC.

Can we say Holly from Red Dwarf?

______________________________________
Control over the automation entirely, No way. Red Dwarf? Never saw it--makes me a heretic, I know. But I told you up front I was...
__________________________________________

Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
B-Sane parent Strains/ Hobbyists, and Peacemakers would fall into this category (Tho the monomania obssessivenes of the Hobby's might be a factor.)

Would there be a legal definitions on what is considered an offspring versus a copy?

(In Transhuman Space, the practise of having more than one AI copy running is called Xoxing. This is mostly illegal, especially the practise of scanning a famous person's brain waves and selling copies to people for what ever nefarious uses they want)
______________________________________________
Parent strains procreate/ Peacemakers clone, but they become their own identities. Puppeteers do what you describe--Xoxing. Therefore, they have to go if they meet the less than sane test. But then hey, I can see a sane puppeteer too--a rarity though.
___________________

Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
C-TL-15/16 needed there, though VF has AI vamp bots at TL-10-15 listed in it. Not all pretty like Sir AB 101, or Akasha Sechszehn (AKS-16)imtu.

And who has that? Riddle me that GAB!

The question was more in the line of What Type (mainframe, vehicles, starship, appliances, robots, etc.).

Sir AB-101, a prototype android, was one of the characters in the DGP Grand Tour campaign. In the first adventure everyone are nominated to knighthood, include Aybee (his name). As mentioned in a previous posting, Emperor Strephon know about him and inquired about tech and cost.
______________________________________________
I have that DGP, thank you. TL-15/16 seems to be in the regnecy's/Darrians hands..unless the Vilani have some still (doubtful). But I do see a lot of the robots surviving--like Dethenes in OE. On a Pop A former tL-16 world, the BARD site has posted in the OPAL section, postulating some 10million bots about in TNE, including the largets population of peacemakers in any one spot in OE.(Dethenes is still TL-10, no GGs)
___________________________________

Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
D-Moot point, when the Snake AVW is used to "secure" suspected device. Snake is essentailly a virus itself. IMHO, no. Now if allowed to "move in", to a non infected system (to save one's life), I don't think you could fault it. Sanity is the test though, measuring THAT is the toughie.

Was Snake sentient?

No, not in the sense the Virii it went after were.

The concept of permission seems right.

I'm gonna haveta break out "I, Robot" by Asimov tonight I see...

Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
F-Sophisticated or schizophrenic? Hmmmmm. Hard scinece vs TV. This one can go either way. OTU, I leave to Hunter & Coy.
IMTU, no.

schizophrenic. I didn't think of that angle.[/QUOTE]
______________________
Ahh, but you had me thinkin' the smoke was pourin out me ears, GAB. Good job! No you can think on that last one!