3D Designs
- Thread starter BitKnot
- Start date
I'm thinks something like:
Small screen viewport of interactive interior, with levels side view and a per level sliced view -> these three combined would show you were you are and and were you've been (with info hidden for areas one has not been in, but still showing overall shape/dimensions and relative postion aboard ship)...
Small screen viewport of interactive interior, with levels side view and a per level sliced view -> these three combined would show you were you are and and were you've been (with info hidden for areas one has not been in, but still showing overall shape/dimensions and relative postion aboard ship)...
Yeah - complexity is of course the primary issue!
I believe in starting simple... I'll use a text file for the layout - this will allow simple loop constructs for large ships, for which I believe on screen walkthru plans would actually be usefull (anything else is just neat!)
In other words, I'll focus on a viewer (not a designer). It will be OpenGL based for Windows platform (prob use GLUT - simple to port to other platforms if I open source it).
I'm working on dynamic level of detail worlds right now (not traveller based though) - have an older program that maps traveller world map (IS Form 8 style) to a globe (in icosahedron to full sphere), looks neat enough, but no clouds or atmosphere and - it zooms in/out and rotates two axis - I added a 'holographic' look on a whim last week. If there's an interest I'll tack on a file open dialog and post it somewheres...
I believe in starting simple... I'll use a text file for the layout - this will allow simple loop constructs for large ships, for which I believe on screen walkthru plans would actually be usefull (anything else is just neat!)
In other words, I'll focus on a viewer (not a designer). It will be OpenGL based for Windows platform (prob use GLUT - simple to port to other platforms if I open source it).
I'm working on dynamic level of detail worlds right now (not traveller based though) - have an older program that maps traveller world map (IS Form 8 style) to a globe (in icosahedron to full sphere), looks neat enough, but no clouds or atmosphere and - it zooms in/out and rotates two axis - I added a 'holographic' look on a whim last week. If there's an interest I'll tack on a file open dialog and post it somewheres...
Now, I'm a guy that still uses the damn little Paper-clip-Guy in Excel. I guess, since I have my self-taught hand in all sorts of computer stuff (C++, LWO, Web sites, etc.), I might have Comp-1 or JackoaTrades-1. Better, yet, I KNOW people who are engineers, mathmaticians...me? I am a tech-ie/artist/sales-dude.
SO: WOW to the Comp-3 stuff being applied....I think I can say we ALL appreciate it.
(...now about a Striker design sheet....hehehe....)
Gats'
SO: WOW to the Comp-3 stuff being applied....I think I can say we ALL appreciate it.
(...now about a Striker design sheet....hehehe....)
Gats'
Thanks in advance - (well in excess of 30,000 hrs writing and testing code - Comp-3???). I think I'll have time next week to setup the hex world viewer for public consumption...
About that paper clip guy - I made a 'Emperial Assistroid' some time back - didn't have time to alias the edges though (MS Agents with non-windowed backgrounds look crapy when anti-aliased on their outside edges when they are over different colored backgrounds). These can run over the web dynamically (such as on the striker site)!
(And about that design sheet - see my note on your striker post...)
About that paper clip guy - I made a 'Emperial Assistroid' some time back - didn't have time to alias the edges though (MS Agents with non-windowed backgrounds look crapy when anti-aliased on their outside edges when they are over different colored backgrounds). These can run over the web dynamically (such as on the striker site)!
(And about that design sheet - see my note on your striker post...)
DaveShayne
SOC-12
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BitKnot:
Anyone ever do any 3D walkthru deck designs?
Anyone interested?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I mentioned this thread on the TML as I remembered some people talking about this a year or so ago. These are the responses so far.
-----------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 07:27:59 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: 3d Walkthroughs
On Thu, 8 Mar 2001 15:33:56 -0500 daveshayne@email.msn.com (DaveShayne) wrote:
>Over in the T5 forum somebody is asking about 3D walkthroughs. I seem to
>recal somebody talking about some of these a while ago. Maybe still on the
>net somewhere.
>
>The discusion thread is in the Fleet section of the Citizens of the Imperium
>at Marc's site.
I remember a looong time ago, someone was talking about how they dida starship
in a game level designer (perhaps it was Marathon, perhaps it was Quake)
One possible solution is Design Workshop. This is a 3D CAD program available
at Artifice: http://www.artifice.com
A lite version is avaliable for the cost of downloading it, or $20 on CD (with
a bunch of other stuff). There are two higher levels of the program getting
you more features and a larger workspace (greater number of objects) at $80
and $450...
It's available for both Mac and PC and is a pretty neat program for slapping
together a quick walkthrough.
Bruce Johnson
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:47:54 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter"
Subject: RE: 3d Walkthroughs
Bruce Johnson wrote:
> (DaveShayne) wrote:
> > Over in the T5 forum somebody is asking about 3D walkthroughs.
> > I seem to recal somebody talking about some of these a while
> > ago. Maybe still on the net somewhere.
>
> I remember a looong time ago, someone was talking about how they
> dida starship in a game level designer (perhaps it was Marathon,
> perhaps it was Quake)
I found some Marathon stuff during a Website Review of Glenn
Hoppe's "Jumpspace" website (http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8275).
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
Hope this helps
David Shayne
[This message has been edited by DaveShayne (edited 09 March 2001).]
Anyone ever do any 3D walkthru deck designs?
Anyone interested?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I mentioned this thread on the TML as I remembered some people talking about this a year or so ago. These are the responses so far.
-----------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 07:27:59 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: 3d Walkthroughs
On Thu, 8 Mar 2001 15:33:56 -0500 daveshayne@email.msn.com (DaveShayne) wrote:
>Over in the T5 forum somebody is asking about 3D walkthroughs. I seem to
>recal somebody talking about some of these a while ago. Maybe still on the
>net somewhere.
>
>The discusion thread is in the Fleet section of the Citizens of the Imperium
>at Marc's site.
I remember a looong time ago, someone was talking about how they dida starship
in a game level designer (perhaps it was Marathon, perhaps it was Quake)
One possible solution is Design Workshop. This is a 3D CAD program available
at Artifice: http://www.artifice.com
A lite version is avaliable for the cost of downloading it, or $20 on CD (with
a bunch of other stuff). There are two higher levels of the program getting
you more features and a larger workspace (greater number of objects) at $80
and $450...
It's available for both Mac and PC and is a pretty neat program for slapping
together a quick walkthrough.
Bruce Johnson
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:47:54 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter"
Subject: RE: 3d Walkthroughs
Bruce Johnson wrote:
> (DaveShayne) wrote:
> > Over in the T5 forum somebody is asking about 3D walkthroughs.
> > I seem to recal somebody talking about some of these a while
> > ago. Maybe still on the net somewhere.
>
> I remember a looong time ago, someone was talking about how they
> dida starship in a game level designer (perhaps it was Marathon,
> perhaps it was Quake)
I found some Marathon stuff during a Website Review of Glenn
Hoppe's "Jumpspace" website (http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8275).
Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)
------------------------------
Hope this helps
David Shayne
[This message has been edited by DaveShayne (edited 09 March 2001).]
Thanks David - didn't find anything on Jumpspace (nice site though!), and artifice CAD is ok...
Keep the comments coming! - I'm working on a little viewer.. orginally thought I'd base it on some experiements I'd done with large scale spatially partitioned meshes, but have now spec'ed a more 'simplistic' design which I think better targets the application.
I've never found a BSP/Quake engine I liked - solid/dependible and robust - and while it would be nice to leverage existing level designers they would be overkill and under orientated to deckplans. (Sometimes reinventing the wheel is a sound plan - ever picture a tractor tire on a ferrari)!
I've trashed a text based script file for a design that will depend on a 'deckplan modeller'. This is better for end users, but modellers are allways less flexible than well made scripters. Unfortunately, this also means a longer time to deployment.
First development phase concentrates on interior only - exterior shell will come later. I start coding tonight on the core engine. My target is an application which will allow setting the scene for gaming - not a first person videogame, nor an immersive reality simulation.
In this sense especially, ideas are greatly appreciated! I'm doing this for the shear enjoyment of it, but its allways been important to me that there is some use for my labors...
BTW Gats - 42% on a very hard task.... what's a very hard task (and what's a spouse
)
Keep the comments coming! - I'm working on a little viewer.. orginally thought I'd base it on some experiements I'd done with large scale spatially partitioned meshes, but have now spec'ed a more 'simplistic' design which I think better targets the application.
I've never found a BSP/Quake engine I liked - solid/dependible and robust - and while it would be nice to leverage existing level designers they would be overkill and under orientated to deckplans. (Sometimes reinventing the wheel is a sound plan - ever picture a tractor tire on a ferrari)!
I've trashed a text based script file for a design that will depend on a 'deckplan modeller'. This is better for end users, but modellers are allways less flexible than well made scripters. Unfortunately, this also means a longer time to deployment.
First development phase concentrates on interior only - exterior shell will come later. I start coding tonight on the core engine. My target is an application which will allow setting the scene for gaming - not a first person videogame, nor an immersive reality simulation.
In this sense especially, ideas are greatly appreciated! I'm doing this for the shear enjoyment of it, but its allways been important to me that there is some use for my labors...
BTW Gats - 42% on a very hard task.... what's a very hard task (and what's a spouse
DaveShayne
SOC-12
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BitKnot:
Thanks David - didn't find anything on Jumpspace (nice site though!), and artifice CAD is ok...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Click on the marathon link. It only has one Traveller related map though.
I know someone was talking about doing a scout I don't know what happened with it though.
David Shayne
Thanks David - didn't find anything on Jumpspace (nice site though!), and artifice CAD is ok...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Click on the marathon link. It only has one Traveller related map though.
I know someone was talking about doing a scout I don't know what happened with it though.
David Shayne
Thanks David!
Well, I'm going to go find a temporary home for the starship viewer app. After a bit of coding in the wee hours, and an expanding spec, I figure its about time. Also making my world map viewer useable and need a place to home it too.
While I have the time and at least one to three interested users I decided to make the deckplanner and viewer what I would like to see!
Next week I'll publish the world viewer. Working on specs and core test modules this week and will target a user beta of starship viewer week of the 21st.
I'll post updates here!
Well, I'm going to go find a temporary home for the starship viewer app. After a bit of coding in the wee hours, and an expanding spec, I figure its about time. Also making my world map viewer useable and need a place to home it too.
While I have the time and at least one to three interested users I decided to make the deckplanner and viewer what I would like to see!
Next week I'll publish the world viewer. Working on specs and core test modules this week and will target a user beta of starship viewer week of the 21st.
I'll post updates here!
DaveShayne
SOC-12
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BitKnot:
Thanks David!
Well, I'm going to go find a temporary home for the starship viewer app. After a bit of coding in the wee hours, and an expanding spec, I figure its about time. Also making my world map viewer useable and need a place to home it too.
While I have the time and at least one to three interested users I decided to make the deckplanner and viewer what I would like to see!
Next week I'll publish the world viewer. Working on specs and core test modules this week and will target a user beta of starship viewer week of the 21st.
I'll post updates here!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Looking forward to it.
David Shayne
Thanks David!
Well, I'm going to go find a temporary home for the starship viewer app. After a bit of coding in the wee hours, and an expanding spec, I figure its about time. Also making my world map viewer useable and need a place to home it too.
While I have the time and at least one to three interested users I decided to make the deckplanner and viewer what I would like to see!
Next week I'll publish the world viewer. Working on specs and core test modules this week and will target a user beta of starship viewer week of the 21st.
I'll post updates here!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Looking forward to it.
David Shayne
Okay...
Temporary home is www.geocities.com/bitknot/index.htm
No useful info on the starship viewer - I spent too much time getting the site setup..
Temporary home is www.geocities.com/bitknot/index.htm
No useful info on the starship viewer - I spent too much time getting the site setup..
I knocked up a (rough) Type-S Scout/Courier while footling around in Unreal Tournament's editing package. It's not scientifically accurate, and it's not finished, but I found it interesting to see how it all fitted together. With any luck, you'll be able to get it from this site (120 kb ZIP).
You may not have the same texture set I've used - SSMetal.utx, from the Shock Systems assault maps pack. You can download this at Shock Systems' website (warning: 3.4 megs ZIP).
Cheers, Nick
[This message has been edited by Moonbroth (edited 11 March 2001).]
You may not have the same texture set I've used - SSMetal.utx, from the Shock Systems assault maps pack. You can download this at Shock Systems' website (warning: 3.4 megs ZIP).
Cheers, Nick
[This message has been edited by Moonbroth (edited 11 March 2001).]
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BitKnot:
Sounds interesting - don't have 'Unreal Tournament's editing package', but am interested on any thoughts on what you liked/missed with using it for the purposes of laying out and 'playing' the ship!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Most interesting was learning how tricky it is fitting the 2D deck plans into the 3D hull. You learn things like: the forward cabins are uncomfortably cramped (mind you, the whole starship is pretty poky); there's *loads* of space in the Engineering section aft (which could do with a proper split-deck redesign); the upper and lower decks on the canon deck plans just don't fit (any way I tried 'em); etc.
UnrealEd is a good level-editing package, but it's been tricky finding appropriate textures for Imperial starships -- they tend towards techno-grunge and mediaevalism, not a squeaky-clean futuristic look.
One UT thing I was planning to try was setting the ship in hyperspace (there's standard UT levels like this, to cut'n'paste). Two problems: first, like I said, it's pretty poky in there. Second, part of the point of doing this was the aesthetic pleasure of "wandering around" a Type-S in a hangar bay, which you'd lose on the inside.
You can pick up Unreal Tournament (inc. editor) on a bargain label nowadays, if you want to give it a spin.
Final apologies/caveats, in case they weren't already clear:
This is the first level I've built for UT. It isn't "finished". I haven't added doors, etc. The hangar-bay the Type-S is parked in is pretty rudimentary. There's not much game-play to the level as it stands (run around, shoot people, repeat). There's no customised Traveller-esque things. The deck plan isn't 100% canon. The ship (and its landing gear) would look nicer drawn by Jesse DeGraff. Etc. Etc.
Still, give it a spin and see what you think...
Sounds interesting - don't have 'Unreal Tournament's editing package', but am interested on any thoughts on what you liked/missed with using it for the purposes of laying out and 'playing' the ship!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Most interesting was learning how tricky it is fitting the 2D deck plans into the 3D hull. You learn things like: the forward cabins are uncomfortably cramped (mind you, the whole starship is pretty poky); there's *loads* of space in the Engineering section aft (which could do with a proper split-deck redesign); the upper and lower decks on the canon deck plans just don't fit (any way I tried 'em); etc.
UnrealEd is a good level-editing package, but it's been tricky finding appropriate textures for Imperial starships -- they tend towards techno-grunge and mediaevalism, not a squeaky-clean futuristic look.
One UT thing I was planning to try was setting the ship in hyperspace (there's standard UT levels like this, to cut'n'paste). Two problems: first, like I said, it's pretty poky in there. Second, part of the point of doing this was the aesthetic pleasure of "wandering around" a Type-S in a hangar bay, which you'd lose on the inside.
You can pick up Unreal Tournament (inc. editor) on a bargain label nowadays, if you want to give it a spin.
Final apologies/caveats, in case they weren't already clear:
This is the first level I've built for UT. It isn't "finished". I haven't added doors, etc. The hangar-bay the Type-S is parked in is pretty rudimentary. There's not much game-play to the level as it stands (run around, shoot people, repeat). There's no customised Traveller-esque things. The deck plan isn't 100% canon. The ship (and its landing gear) would look nicer drawn by Jesse DeGraff. Etc. Etc.
Still, give it a spin and see what you think...
Sounds pretty cool - I'll look for an unreal viewer - MilkShade may work too.
I working on a Deck Planner that will support a 3D viewer specifically made for RP. It won't be as free form as UT, but will be easier to make layouts in and be geared specifically for Traveller and RP.
The space management (percentage jump, etc) will be a whole lot easier. In addition, the goal is to support large starships, so the layout tools will be geared for making repetative features and the like.
I'm going to put specs on my temp site at: http://www.geocities.com/bitknot/
(Currently have a planet viewer demo for DL. Also working on a Hex World Viewer.)
I working on a Deck Planner that will support a 3D viewer specifically made for RP. It won't be as free form as UT, but will be easier to make layouts in and be geared specifically for Traveller and RP.
The space management (percentage jump, etc) will be a whole lot easier. In addition, the goal is to support large starships, so the layout tools will be geared for making repetative features and the like.
I'm going to put specs on my temp site at: http://www.geocities.com/bitknot/
(Currently have a planet viewer demo for DL. Also working on a Hex World Viewer.)
