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2300 vs the Vilani

The hallowed and canonized history of plucky, creative, true-grit Terrans defeating the Goliath of murderous and stupid, stupid bureaucrats is, to me, a really wearisome cliche. It is one that has a lot of resonance to the average SF fan, I'll admit.

But I would have to try to flip it around a bit. I would have the Vilani totally crush the Terrans. Not with superior technology (at least, not in a post-Singularity sense; maybe just a bit shinier), and not necessarily with numbers either (though it calls for special pleading for them not to have that advantage) -- but just superior planning and organization. The Vilani have been fighting and defeating dashing, clever upstart civilizations for millennia, and they have backup plans and preparations for every contingency. Including the ones that the Terrans never think of. I imagine there being specialized field manuals for dealing with "technowankers, competitive; bipedal", in fact.

Yep, I want to see the Terrans defeated and assimilated because all their cunning plans and special spunkiness are, themselves, familiar cliches to the Vilani. Come on. The "Interstellar Wars" material in Traveller was cool... for the '50s.
 
Interesting outlook, that is certainly a possibility. The Vilani do have plans, and organization.

Keep in mind: In the Canon OTU, they were hit with plague... the Plague of Duskir renders them crippled. And they had little experience with such virulent plagues.
 
That is one of the cases where I find myself considering 'canon' as 'in-universe historiography' more than anything else. The Vilani had spent thousands of years in thousands of planets contacting how many bajilion species, and somehow failed to ever encounter & adapt to microorganisms? And what, did the Ancients technomagically wave away the huge variety (and huge mass, when you add it all together) of the microbes that live on and in humans, even those that are actually necessary for human metabolism etc.?

Nah. I think the Terran Confederation went all-out Unit 731, on a truly epic scale.

Look, I love the idea of the Vilani, and their age of greatness in the OTU timeline is one that I think would be fun to play in. But they're one of those areas of Traveller canon where it's painfully obvious that they've been stitched together from random bits of color/background; they come off as just terribly conceived and written when you try putting all the bits together. They're a hot mess :)
 
That is one of the cases where I find myself considering 'canon' as 'in-universe historiography' more than anything else. The Vilani had spent thousands of years in thousands of planets contacting how many bajilion species, and somehow failed to ever encounter & adapt to microorganisms? And what, did the Ancients technomagically wave away the huge variety (and huge mass, when you add it all together) of the microbes that live on and in humans, even those that are actually necessary for human metabolism etc.?

Keep in mind, even in a biome with compatible life, many diseases didn't have established immunities. Smallpox more than decimated the mesoamericans; some estimates are 40% or more of all mesoamericans died of smallpox within the first decade after contact with europe.

It's hardly a stretch to think that Influenza would run through them something fierce. The stretch is that the Terrans didn't suffer likewise.
 
Keep in mind, even in a biome with compatible life, many diseases didn't have established immunities. Smallpox more than decimated the mesoamericans; some estimates are 40% or more of all mesoamericans died of smallpox within the first decade after contact with europe.

It's hardly a stretch to think that Influenza would run through them something fierce. The stretch is that the Terrans didn't suffer likewise.

Which is why Vilani Conspiracy Theorists to this day insist that the Plague of Duskir was a geneered virus or at least spread through the food supply or at least corrupting the Shuggii (bribes, re-education, etc.).

Once you determine the vector, the explanation follows.

Also, another factor is that the Vilani may have this massive empire but the parts that were settled were only the Mains. So, it is possible to poison the roots of a tree and still have the tree still appearing to be alive. And, I think this is what happened with Terrans they managed to kill off many branches, as they began from the top and and thus were pruning away the Vilani Empire but did not attack the roots until the declaration of the Rule of Man. And, that situation continued for some time...but all the time the poison combined with aggressive pruning led to the demise of the First Imperium.
 
It's hardly a stretch to think that Influenza would run through them something fierce. The stretch is that the Terrans didn't suffer likewise.

That's a good point. I do find it hard to believe the Vilani would not be far better-equipped than Terrans to deal with epidemic disease following first contact with other (transplanted) human groups... but, according to canon, they are STOOOPID.
 
That's a good point. I do find it hard to believe the Vilani would not be far better-equipped than Terrans to deal with epidemic disease following first contact with other (transplanted) human groups... but, according to canon, they are STOOOPID.

Not stupid but weak. Aramis' point of the native Americans is worth repeating on Small Pox. Think of a highly structured society where basically all pathogens die when they are contact with you. Makes you think that you invulnerable. Medical science is at least 4 TLs back because of the cost of your ignorance. And, if Doctors were there as a adjunct of the Shugii (and whatever potions/snake oil (s)he concocts). So think, if they might understand the rudimentary aspects of germ theory but have opposite treatments - ones based on tonics and herbs that alleviate symptoms for the superman physique to recover. Then they meet their kryptonite - Terran germs clearly there was a nod to Wells there.

So, even as the Vilani learn from Terran doctors, they are shown sociological unable to assimilate the knowledge because how their society pressures them to think differently and this has been browbeaten into them for millennial and a sense of superiority.

It is hard to fathom how there can be modernization without modernity but there are countless societies that are like that in today's world. Once a civilization moves to the stars and forms interstellar polities then the need for cultural rigidity is more defined.
 
I've often imagined 2300 --> Traveller setting where the Interstellar Wars don't happen as described. The Vilani Empire does fall, there is a Long Night, there's even a Rule of Man.

However, it's less that the Terrans conquer the Vilani than the Vilani basically hand Terrans the keys to their Empire.

Sometime, perhaps a few decades after the Kafer menace is "pacified" and perhaps some other menace is "pacified", Terrans encounter the Vilani. There's a tremendous shock on Terra of other humans living in space; but it passes surprisingly without too much cultural trauma. The Vilani have dealt with this situation before with many other Terran minor races and are experts on the PR delicacy involved.

There's no "submit or die" demands by the Vilani, no invasions, no awful smallpox of the future, or anything like that. Terran humanity is awed and daunted by the size of the Vilani Empire, but Terra (unlike in canon Traveller) has many colonies of its own, many arms of exploration lead away from the Vilani. The Vilani for their part, don't find anything particularly threatening about Terrans: They're lower tech (I'd give the Vilani Jump-2 overall, Jump-3 in their military, and they're sitting on Jump-4 due to the sociological ramifications they don't want to deal with), seem amenable to trade and contact, and Terran space provides a good buffer against potential threads Rimwards.

On the other hand, invading Terran space seems like a huge hassle to the Vilani. Terrans have a quite a sizable sphere, large populations, armies willing to fight. Nobody in the Ziru Sirka doubts the ability of the Empire to conquer the Terrans given their naval superiority and vast armies, but the political will to fight a war that's projected to last a decade and cost huge in lives and money, then the projected decades it'll take to pacify the Terrans and the centuries it'll take to assimilate them is just not seen as worth the effort. So...they don't.

The Vilani are old enough and realistic enough of a society they realize they can't completely cut the Terrans off, but Vilani merchants are "discouraged" from trading with the Terrans; they know a few will (a "few" meaning hundreds of traders) but as long Vilani technology's diffusion to the Terrans is slowed they'll have a generation or two to study the situation before it becomes a problem (conveniently, it also means it'll be the problem of future generations and not them).

What brings the Vilani down is that they're averse to manual labor like any group of people with the mindset they're the "ruling caste" of society. In particular, the Vilani hate to risk their lives in wars. Traditionally, that's what the minor human races (and aliens in a pinch) are for; to provide mercenaries. The major issue of the Empire are the Vargr. Too numerous to ignore, with a high birthrate, a decent technological base, and so politically fragmented it's impossible to deal with them in any conclusive way. The technological diffusion to the Vargr has reached a critical point; their raiders are still lower-tech but no longer something easily handled by individual world-satraps. Referred to as "consolidations", the Ziru Sirka has slowly been shrinking away from the Vargr menace.

Some in the Empire see Terrans as the perfect solution to deal with the Vargr. Playing on the "we're fellow humans" and with promises of lavish pay, Vilani hire tens of thousands of Terrans to serve as mercenaries against the Vargr. The Terrans are everything the Vilani dreamed of in this capacity; professional, experienced, and ambitious. The Vargr come to fear the Terrans, and the Vilani hire as many Terran mercs as they can find. Stories filter back to the Terran sphere of amazing wealth to be made fighting for the Vilani; living in palaces with high tech amenties, waited on by servants. There's eventually tens of millions of Terrans serving as mercs with minor human race mercs serving under the Terrans.

Ironically, the fall of the Ziru Sirka isn't caused by Terran hatred of the Vilani, but actually, Terran love of the Vilani. Unlike other mercenaries, Terrans want to take the fight back to the Vargr, it's the only way to take back the planets the Vilani have relinquished and to reduce the Vargr presence so that they'll be ingrained with a deep cultural belief not to mess with humans. The Vilani don't want the Terrans to do anything rash or outside of the mission they were hired for (defense). The Terrans can't understand why the Vilani are so willing to slowly let their pride get chipped away by the Vargr. The Terrans eventually get a faction of Vilani more ambitious (usually younger) Vilani nobles to work with them, mostly border nobles, who feel their own "fire in their blood" awakening listening to these Terrans. What's historically important is that nobody realizes even at that time, the Vilani nobles are (mostly) willing to work under the Terrans.

With Vilani insiders now able to play political games of the Empire, the Terrans are freed to go on their punitive strikes against the Vargr, but the Vargr space turns out to be much larger and stronger than the Terrans expected; pacification will require the Vilani Imperial Navy. Terrans, wanting to protect the Vilani Empire and their fellow humans, plead to the Vilani military to support them. In defiance of tradition, they disobey their Emperor and the Grand Fleet moves to support the Terrans (the Vilani military has long wanted to do this, but were waiting for someone to come along who'd serve as a lightning rod to societal disapproval). Over the course of some decades, the Vargr are finally "pacified." Only then do the Terrans realize the Vilani Empire is having bad problems; the Emperor shown as toothless has led to a fragmentation of the Empire as local governors and satraps are doing their own thing. With the support of the Vilani military, the Terrans move to "pacify" the rebellous satraps. A Terran is named the next Shadow Emperor (the Vilani figure: hey, we'll give him a Vilani name and it's not like he'll ever be seen, and he has some good ideas...if he gets out of hand we can always control him). With the Terrans co-opted into the Vilani social system (at least outwardly - they're wearing Vilani robes instead of Terran trousers and so on), more and more Vilani have no problem obeying the Terrans...
 
ISTM -- for at least all all all values of me > 40(cough) years of age, there is a general, common, shared interest in the idea of human(oid) spacefarers from our (known) paleolithic past.

Maybe players of a different generation see it differently... but 1) I doubt it, until argued with; and b) who cares? we're all old bastards here.

Traveller "Proper" is one line of approach. E.g. nonhuman ancients scattering (proto)homo sapiens all over the local stellosphere, and one of them -- not Terra -- gets lucky and gets a head start. I love that. But, I think, though, that many other interesting and weird game/thought-environments could be produced from this.

What if the Tahavi -- the "manta-like" sophonts near Vland -- are the first to survive and explore a galactic segment full of dead apes? What the hell would they make of that???

Or, slightly less-alt-historically; what if the Vilani, c. First Imperium 2000-odd-whatever C.E., finally realized thanks to a multi-generation biomedical research project begun centuries ago, accumulates overwhelming evidence that the biological origins of humaniti began on planet that has not had muticellular life for millennia??? Har har har. Erp is slag waiting to emerge from its mine shaft surpluses.

Well, what normal red-blooded human would put up with that scenario??? So, if I haven't lost you already, PCs could be "managers" of "evolving" native sophonts crawling out of the sub-crustal sewers of EARTH struggling to strike a balance between sterility and humanity, and at the same time seeking to be scientists, at the point of the trigger -- aimed at anyone in their way -- of suddenly discovering the actual sources of intelligence in the galaxy. LIEK, WHO THE FUK ARE WE MAN?
 
Well, Vilani are the ultimate creationists, intelligent design or whatever the parlance is for those who deny evolution which accounts for their worldview (universalview). As I said, much of the scientific revolution before is premised upon a denal of God. So imagine if biological subjects were all treated as unique organisms ordained by God(s), as the Vilani are likely to believe. So even, as their physics determined that breaking the Sky did not anger the Sky God, it was because the God existed in another dimension. Or that weather was the interaction of complex elements created by conditions on the globe rather than divine intervention. Many more mysteries remain. Now, if biology was the preview of the priestly class (the Shuggii) then those people may investigate the effects in biochemistry but never make the leap into genetics.

Part of the problem is that everything in today's world is subscribed to genetics (or at least a significant portion of the discourse) that it becomes almost metaphysical. Now, we have to imagine a world without the scientific revolution (unless you have traveled to the parts of the world that I have where there is modernism without modernity) impacting on all aspects. But, the analogy that I made earlier about creationists applies.
 
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WOW, very interesting scenario. I like it, can you expand a little please?

I've often imagined 2300 --> Traveller setting where the Interstellar Wars don't happen as described. The Vilani Empire does fall, there is a Long Night, there's even a Rule of Man.

However, it's less that the Terrans conquer the Vilani than the Vilani basically hand Terrans the keys to their Empire.

Sometime, perhaps a few decades after the Kafer menace is "pacified" and perhaps some other menace is "pacified", Terrans encounter the Vilani. There's a tremendous shock on Terra of other humans living in space; but it passes surprisingly without too much cultural trauma. The Vilani have dealt with this situation before with many other Terran minor races and are experts on the PR delicacy involved.

There's no "submit or die" demands by the Vilani, no invasions, no awful smallpox of the future, or anything like that. Terran humanity is awed and daunted by the size of the Vilani Empire, but Terra (unlike in canon Traveller) has many colonies of its own, many arms of exploration lead away from the Vilani. The Vilani for their part, don't find anything particularly threatening about Terrans: They're lower tech (I'd give the Vilani Jump-2 overall, Jump-3 in their military, and they're sitting on Jump-4 due to the sociological ramifications they don't want to deal with), seem amenable to trade and contact, and Terran space provides a good buffer against potential threads Rimwards.

On the other hand, invading Terran space seems like a huge hassle to the Vilani. Terrans have a quite a sizable sphere, large populations, armies willing to fight. Nobody in the Ziru Sirka doubts the ability of the Empire to conquer the Terrans given their naval superiority and vast armies, but the political will to fight a war that's projected to last a decade and cost huge in lives and money, then the projected decades it'll take to pacify the Terrans and the centuries it'll take to assimilate them is just not seen as worth the effort. So...they don't.

The Vilani are old enough and realistic enough of a society they realize they can't completely cut the Terrans off, but Vilani merchants are "discouraged" from trading with the Terrans; they know a few will (a "few" meaning hundreds of traders) but as long Vilani technology's diffusion to the Terrans is slowed they'll have a generation or two to study the situation before it becomes a problem (conveniently, it also means it'll be the problem of future generations and not them).

What brings the Vilani down is that they're averse to manual labor like any group of people with the mindset they're the "ruling caste" of society. In particular, the Vilani hate to risk their lives in wars. Traditionally, that's what the minor human races (and aliens in a pinch) are for; to provide mercenaries. The major issue of the Empire are the Vargr. Too numerous to ignore, with a high birthrate, a decent technological base, and so politically fragmented it's impossible to deal with them in any conclusive way. The technological diffusion to the Vargr has reached a critical point; their raiders are still lower-tech but no longer something easily handled by individual world-satraps. Referred to as "consolidations", the Ziru Sirka has slowly been shrinking away from the Vargr menace.

Some in the Empire see Terrans as the perfect solution to deal with the Vargr. Playing on the "we're fellow humans" and with promises of lavish pay, Vilani hire tens of thousands of Terrans to serve as mercenaries against the Vargr. The Terrans are everything the Vilani dreamed of in this capacity; professional, experienced, and ambitious. The Vargr come to fear the Terrans, and the Vilani hire as many Terran mercs as they can find. Stories filter back to the Terran sphere of amazing wealth to be made fighting for the Vilani; living in palaces with high tech amenties, waited on by servants. There's eventually tens of millions of Terrans serving as mercs with minor human race mercs serving under the Terrans.

Ironically, the fall of the Ziru Sirka isn't caused by Terran hatred of the Vilani, but actually, Terran love of the Vilani. Unlike other mercenaries, Terrans want to take the fight back to the Vargr, it's the only way to take back the planets the Vilani have relinquished and to reduce the Vargr presence so that they'll be ingrained with a deep cultural belief not to mess with humans. The Vilani don't want the Terrans to do anything rash or outside of the mission they were hired for (defense). The Terrans can't understand why the Vilani are so willing to slowly let their pride get chipped away by the Vargr. The Terrans eventually get a faction of Vilani more ambitious (usually younger) Vilani nobles to work with them, mostly border nobles, who feel their own "fire in their blood" awakening listening to these Terrans. What's historically important is that nobody realizes even at that time, the Vilani nobles are (mostly) willing to work under the Terrans.

With Vilani insiders now able to play political games of the Empire, the Terrans are freed to go on their punitive strikes against the Vargr, but the Vargr space turns out to be much larger and stronger than the Terrans expected; pacification will require the Vilani Imperial Navy. Terrans, wanting to protect the Vilani Empire and their fellow humans, plead to the Vilani military to support them. In defiance of tradition, they disobey their Emperor and the Grand Fleet moves to support the Terrans (the Vilani military has long wanted to do this, but were waiting for someone to come along who'd serve as a lightning rod to societal disapproval). Over the course of some decades, the Vargr are finally "pacified." Only then do the Terrans realize the Vilani Empire is having bad problems; the Emperor shown as toothless has led to a fragmentation of the Empire as local governors and satraps are doing their own thing. With the support of the Vilani military, the Terrans move to "pacify" the rebellous satraps. A Terran is named the next Shadow Emperor (the Vilani figure: hey, we'll give him a Vilani name and it's not like he'll ever be seen, and he has some good ideas...if he gets out of hand we can always control him). With the Terrans co-opted into the Vilani social system (at least outwardly - they're wearing Vilani robes instead of Terran trousers and so on), more and more Vilani have no problem obeying the Terrans...
 
What do you want me to expand in particular?

The idea is essentially that the Terrans take over the Vilani Empire because the Vilani themselves basically hand it over the Terrans. To historians looking back at it, it's very obvious what was happening. To be a person living in those times, it wasn't clear at all, partially because it happened in a lot of tiny steps, but also that it took decades for it to actually occur.

This idea isn't as far-fetched as it sounds. There's historical precedence; situations that are similar have happened on Earth. The best example I can think off of the top of my head is the Roman Empire itself. In later years, the Roman Empire was ruled, not by Romans, but by Illyrians - that is "barbarians" from Illyria (the modern Balkans). Another example might be the Ptolemaic Dynasty in Egypt. In either case, while there might have been grumbling amongst some segments of the population, for the most part, they were accepted or even welcomed by the natives instead of being seen as "foreigners occupying our nation."

The scenario seems more reasonable to me than the "plucky Terrans somehow win a vast Empire" idea.

Under my idea, the Vilani are essentially masters of human psychology, not because they have made intensive study of it (they're not Zhodani), but instead they've found systems that work through trial-and-error over thousands of years. The Vilani Empire is a marvel of stability, prosperity, and contentment for its population, at least its Vilani integrated non-Vilani population.

To achieve this, the Vilani identified stability of society and contentment of its people as its ultimate targets. Everything else could be sacrificed for this goal. At the same time, the aggressive spirit of the early Vilani conquerers faded away as more and more Vilani generations were born into times of peace and prosperity and ideas such as working hard and suffering to get the things you want became distasteful and below them. As a result, like all prosperous peoples the Vilani became less and less willing to do things like manual labor or fight wars.

However, Vilani system was marvelous because even as the Vilani stopped doing such things themselves, they found plenty of willing hands; minor human clients, minor alien races, and so on, all of which wanted the security, peace, and prosperity of the Vilani Empire. The Vilani were willing to share this marvelous, ever-growing bounty, it's just that a people had to do certain things before they could be considered part of the Empire instead of just clients.

The greatest triumph of the Vilani system was that they had found a way to make factors that normally led to corruption work for the Empire instead of against it. Scheming and infighting within the bureaux were used to channel the energy and ambition of people who'd normally be doing things like inventing new technologies or rebelling against society (change such as new technology was seen as destabilizing society). A side-effect of this corruption-tolerant system was that it was nearly impossible to actually change how bureaux did things; only through such monolithic inertia and a sense of duty bound to inflexible tradition could bureaux continue to function with all the infighting.

However, even before contact with the Terrans, the ancient Vilani system was slowly collapsing. The greatest threat to the Vilani were always from the outside; outside factors were uncontrollable and thus a threat. The Vargr were the threat in this case. The Vargr weren't really interested in becoming part of the Vilani system. The Vilani couldn't pacify them like in the olden days: the political will didn't exist, bureaucratic infighting prevented it, plus the Vargr were fragmented and the Vilani were lulled into a false sense of security because the Vargr were fragmented; each Vargr group could be dealt with individually and many Vargr worked with the Vilani against other Vargr.

Nevertheless, a slow pattern of the unraveling of the Empire was occurring. Every decade, Vilani would abandon a few more systems to the Vargr. The Vilani would use "friendly" Vargr groups as mercenaries to do their dirty work and fight their wars. Developing a taste for the civilized comforts of the Vilani Empire, the Vargr would increasingly become "Vilani-ized." These Vilano-Vargr would eventually settle down border worlds. However, like all prosperous people, these "integrated" Vargr wouldn't want to fight wars or do hard work as they wanted to enjoy the prosperity their ancestors had worked so hard for. So the Vilani had to bring in new Vargr "pets" to do their dirty work (fight wars against "wild" Vargr, help in the intercene squabbles between Vilani, and so on). As the Vargr could never be totally "Vilani-ized" due to their racial tendencies, as the Vargr population increased, the human Vilani would slowly filter out of the worlds as they didn't want to live near the anarchic Vargr towards the coreward regions. Eventually, the border world would be home to a dwindling population of Vilani, Vilanized minor races, and large (and increasing) populations of Vargr. At this point, they'd effectively be buffer states. These buffer states would last for a while, at least until the "Vilanized" of cultures weakened and sought their own paths, or were conquered by "wild" Vargr.

At the other end of the Empire, the Vilani contacted the Terrans. Like most minor human races, the Terrans were awed by the Vilani. The ancientness of Vilani culture, how they had found the answers to so many social problems Terrans wrestled with, and so much more. Vilani weren't stupid and many probably realized the Terrans were a unique threat (since in this case, the Terrans weren't a single world but an entire sphere consisting of dozens of worlds) but it was rationalized away for one reason: the Terrans were not a peaceful people and still fought amongst themselves. It disgusted the Vilani. However, all that violence meant ... perhaps the Terrans could be of use against the Vargr?

The rest I've described in my original post.

What happens afterwards is that the Terran-Vilani do take back most of the ancient Empire. These worlds are given over to Terran satraps (no Vilani high noble wants to settle on such a uncivilized world). It creates a massive social upheaval to have dozens of worlds brought into the Empire. While the ancient culture of the Vilani prevents its own people from moving that much, clients aren't controlled so well. So many clients leave. But for the Vilani, the clients were essentially doing the grunt work that kept most Vilani worlds running. Typically things like police, fire, garbage, gardening, farming, and so many other blue collar jobs depended on hordes of Vilanized clients to do the work. The Terrans, rich from incredible wages paid by the Empire were paying lots for people to settle on their worlds. Clients, many of whom were vastly overqualified for their jobs (they had hoped to leverage superior skills and education to move up in Vilani society), Empire picked up and left to settle on the new worlds.

This is facilitated by Terran merchant ships. These ships, while originally forbidden from trading on Vilani worlds, had been going from the Terran military cantons to the Terran sphere and back again for years, carrying replacement equipment, soldiers, and so on. Of course, over the course of decades, frequent visitors to Vilani worlds to purchase things like starship repairs or restock on supplies became familiar enough with local Vilani that they had begun to be allowed to carry trade between Vilani worlds (at first, just along the supply routes and unofficially but eventually there were tens of thousands of them). So even when the Vilani issue "cultural edicts" forbidding transporting client immigrants were passed, Terrans still transport them, as they were not Imperial subjects, but occupied a nebulous status between "licensed traders" and "military dependents."

Those clients who stayed behind started to demand better pay and better opportunities for social advancement or else they'd pick up and leave to Terran controlled liberated worlds. As clients left, many younger, ambitious, lower-class Vilani followed - realizing that their futures would only become more bleak as they'd be forced down to fulfill the old clients jobs, they flouted centuries of tradition, decided that being disowned and being unable to return home was acceptable compared to the disgrace in being forced further down in status staying at home. Indeed, no few Vilani decided to just bite the bullet and immigrate to the Terran sphere itself, an especially popular destination for those knowledgeable in the operation and design of Vilani high-tech, though Vilani artisans were paid ridiculous fees by Terrans hungry for hand-made Vilani cultural goods.

It's this social upheaval that eventually causes the collapse of the Vilani Imperium in this model. Many Terran worlds try to introduce democracy while others decide to go with the Vilani model with themselves as nobles. The populations on traditional Vilani worlds, in forment due to large segments of the population leaving start to see a lot of social unrest. Many younger Vilani start formenting for democracy. Some worlds accede and attempt democratic reforms, only for discontented populations trying to vote their problems away and growing more discontented as voting doesn't make their problems go away. Other satraps try to cling to the old values and start cutting their realms off of contact with the other ("Terran-infected") regions and start setting up their own mini-states that no longer answer to Vland.
 
I like the approach. As you say it doesn't lack historical precedents...
 
The idea is essentially that the Terrans take over the Vilani Empire because the Vilani themselves basically hand it over the Terrans.
*snip*
The scenario seems more reasonable to me than the "plucky Terrans somehow win a vast Empire" idea.

I agree, this makes much more sense to me - consider it borrowed for the next time I am running something in the Third Imperium. Nice work!


It's this social upheaval that eventually causes the collapse of the Vilani Imperium in this model. Many Terran worlds try to introduce democracy while others decide to go with the Vilani model with themselves as nobles. The populations on traditional Vilani worlds, in forment due to large segments of the population leaving start to see a lot of social unrest. Many younger Vilani start formenting for democracy. Some worlds accede and attempt democratic reforms, only for discontented populations trying to vote their problems away and growing more discontented as voting doesn't make their problems go away. Other satraps try to cling to the old values and start cutting their realms off of contact with the other ("Terran-infected") regions and start setting up their own mini-states that no longer answer to Vland.

So does this upheaval eventually lead to YTU's version of the Long Night? The Long Night is another one of those things that I have some difficulty accepting as presented in the OTU, but something along those lines is fairly necessary I think to get the variety of different planetary cultures and TLs from worlds that were long out of touch with the larger society. How have you handled the Long Night IYTU?
 
So does this upheaval eventually lead to YTU's version of the Long Night? The Long Night is another one of those things that I have some difficulty accepting as presented in the OTU, but something along those lines is fairly necessary I think to get the variety of different planetary cultures and TLs from worlds that were long out of touch with the larger society. How have you handled the Long Night IYTU?

It does indeed lead to it.

The Ziru Sirka lasted a bit over 1800 years. I've assumed the Vilani system as encountered by the Terran doesn't really get traction in the empire until about 500 years in. Until then, it's slowly falling into place. Even then 1300 years can only be imagined in abstract. It's longer than living memory. It's been "that way" for as many generations as any family history will remember it. The social contracts of the Vilani had been in place for so long that to the people living in the Ziru Sirka they're taken as granted and were as immutable as the laws of physics or gravity.

The Vilani system developed a variety of systems keep their system stable, to maintain their Empire and keep the institutions of Empire regenerating to keep them from suffering from institutional fatigue. One of the methods was to create interdependence between people, worlds, parts of the Empire, and the three massive Bureaux that actually ran the Empire. That is, no world in the Ziru Sirka could be thought of as truly independent. The cornerstone of the Ziru Sirka system, especially to control technological innovation, was the idea of the zero-sum game that was present in almost all things. For someone to gain, someone else had to lose. As the result, the mindset within Vilani society was that everyone was trying so hard, under the veneer of custom and civility to advance their lot at the expense of others, while preventing the same from being done to them. However since those someone was trying to advance over were members of their workgroup and friends on whom they depended, they couldn't really all-out with their ambition, at least not without being totally cut-off and quickly tumbling down.

Using a very simple example: farming worlds depended on industrial societies to buy their food and to supply them with not only luxuries but even basic things necessary to Vilani-style industrial farming such as chemical fertilizers, farm machinery, spare parts, and so on. In this system, a farmer could never move to an industrial world. He could move to another farming world in the right conditions, however. This essentially compartmentalized knowledge and know-how to preserve everyone's place in the Ziru Sirka. However, it also meant that without inputs from industrial worlds, farmers had no idea how to grow food. Similarly, nobody on industrial worlds knew how to grow basic foodstuffs. Indeed, the knowledge of how to do such things didn't exist on industrial worlds so as to preserve the place of farmers and vice versa. The Vilani bureaux were in charge of ensuring the merchant fleets ran on time to ensure the constant movement of goods to where they were needed.

Using a social example: Lateral mobility existed in the Ziru Sirka, as well as upward (and downward) mobility within a caste. Castes were based around skillsets and professions, instead of being broad social levels for the most part (this was to prevent the creation of a "despised" or "untouchable" group), as well as castes of nobles above it all. Each caste had thousands of degrees and distinctions within it. While a single distinction or degree didn't mean much, even twenty or thirty such things meant were rewarded with a small but noticable increase in the quality of life. It was possible to move up in caste, but in reality it was extremely difficult. However people were contented by moving up the degrees within a caste during their lifetimes. Even moving large amounts of degrees within a caste would require lots of cooperation from others in your caste, patronage from those in higher castes, and the ability to fend off attempts by others to bring you down or keep you in place. With such a carrot-and-stick system, climbing up degrees within a caste was the goal of most Vilani. Vilani children might dream of becoming nobles, but by adulthood, most Vilani were set on trying to get to the top of their caste instead of jumping up an entire caste. At the very top of the caste the leaders were responsible for showing how important their caste was to the nobles and making their caste productive so they would be rewarded with a greater share of wealth as well to ensure their caste continued to be allowed to exist.

Given such a complex society, it was basically impossible for any outsider to understand its workings. Indeed, by the time of the Terran contact, even the nobles were so a part of the system they didn't understand it either, only their place in it.

Then the Terans came and kicked the entire thing over. The Ziru Sirka's system worked provided change was so gradual as to be nearer to the movement of tectonic plates or changes were limited to a world or two at most. Rapid shifts destabilized the system which tended to have an avalanche effect. The movement of huge numbers of clients meant that suddenly the Vilani needed workers in certain industries all across the Empire. This alone probably would have made the Ziru Sirka collapse without generations of repair work, but the Ziru Sirka didn't have that luxury. Terran ideas such as democracy or freedom of work took root in many parts of the Ziru Sirka as the system began to spin out of control as they answered the deep-seated fears of the Vilani. Of course, the Vilani were so used to their well-oiled system working that it never occurred to them that Terran societies were not stable; no Terran nation had ever lasted a thousand years with barely any change. Revolutions, invasions, and wars were commonplace on Earth. But the Vilani couldn't truly understand that. So they just saw the idea of "democracy + what we have now = great" or "freedom of work + what we have now = great" without understanding that the ideas were mutually exclusive.

So to use an example of what happened: An agri-world loses a lot of its workers, so can't keep up with food production contracts. Local nobles are aware there's stockpiles to compensate for bad harvests and so on, so use the stockpiles to make up the shortfall while they send a request for more workers to the nobles over them. The planet-level nobles have no idea where to get more workers (you can't take workers from mining or industrial worlds to be farmers after all!), so they send a request to the subsector noble, who gives permission for some local agri-worlds in the area to increase family size to five and that the excess workers will be shipped in twenty years. However, that's not soon enough, but the local nobles have no idea what to do about that, so sends a request to the sector noble, and so on. Each of these steps takes weeks or months. Meanwhile, the world can no longer keep up with its food quotas so there's less and less food going to industrial worlds. The planetary nobility realize what's going on, so at first things are handled by everyone just making do with less. As things continue to get worse the planetary nobles start looking for alternate supply from elsewhere in the Empire, asking the bureaux to send more food, but there was no more food to be had and no way to make more.

Even as the Ziru Sirka fell apart, its institutions continued to operate, but now it was the same as heart continuing to beat despite an artery being cut; the operation of social insitutions was harming the Ziru Sirka more than helping it. Piles of fertilizer a hundred meters high were left on starports on agri-worlds were most of the farmers had left to find jobs elsewhere. The crews of the ships realized this, but as merchants they hated the idea of resources being wasted, but they had set schedules. Starving shipyard worlds continued to turn out patrol cruisers at the set schedules because they didn't have know-how to retool to make merchant ships because the designers of such machinery were on the next system over, they fulfilled their contacts and hoped that'd be enough to get them food. Starving industrial worlds saw huge piles of food accumulating on the docks because too many of their truck drivers had left for jobs elsewhere. The remaining castes and guilds couldn't simply distribute the food themselves as each was too afraid of committing some faux pas that'd result in a degree penalty that their rivals would use to pull them down.

In such a situation, something snapped. And in the Ziru Sirka, the social contract snapped. This disintegration didn't occur overnight. Indeed, the Ziru Sirka continues under the Ramshackle Empire for a few more centuries as the Terran sphere ties up increasing amounts of its capital trying to keep the disaster in the Ziru Sirka from getting worse. By the time it completely falls apart, there's a ripple effect that pulls down the Terran sphere too as nations jockey for power, fighting each other for what's left. Worlds that try and pull back to weather things (possible in the Terran sphere) are attacked by roaming "naval pirates" (entire fleets of the Vilani navy gone rogue) who conduct smash-and-grab raids to try and get what they need then leave, leaving ruins.
 
Max_Writer, the "Vilani we all love to hate" that I meant were those described in passing, over the years, as the intensely hierarchical, rule-bound, bureaucratic, smugly inefficient (dare I say Dilbertese?) imperialists running around Known Space in their really sucky but unfairly successful due to head start and numerical superiority starships and tech, exploiting wildly and stupidly, enforcing cultural assimilation -- and faced with any resistance whatsoever, responding with mass nuclear barrages from orbit and general genocidal/democidal Evulz, saddled with a "caste" based society (whatever that meant; fill in the Evulz to taste) that repressed individuality and genius. In other words (and IMO) a slowly-accrued hodgepodge of all the bugbears and hobgoblins of contemporary Anglo-American (i.e., generally right-anarchist/libertarian-to-conservative, technofetishistic, hacker-and/or-hipster-culture-oriented) SF.

Meanwhile, the Zhodani are supposed to be the Evil Empire in canon Traveller lore... such a conflicted game! ;)

Ah but you are forgetting (as you are meant to, citizen) all about psycho-history. The Vilani lost the war...

Might be fun to have the Vilani as the good guys and the Terrans wreck their party.
 
Ah but you are forgetting (as you are meant to, citizen) all about psycho-history. The Vilani lost the war...

Might be fun to have the Vilani as the good guys and the Terrans wreck their party.

Oh, believe me, IMTU the Vilani have for a long time been the -- well, not "good guys", but the "interesting guys". The protagonists, I guess. I have net negative interest in the Solomani element in the TU.

Nearly 20 years ago someone on the TML posted draft materials for a campaign set during the early Ziru Sirka (IIRC), well to coreward, without any reference to Terra, the Solomani, or the destiny of the Vilani. I'd like to do that someday, myself. Something all-human and with no Earthly anything in the picture.
 
That could be an interesting scenario book for someone to publish.

Oh, believe me, IMTU the Vilani have for a long time been the -- well, not "good guys", but the "interesting guys". The protagonists, I guess. I have net negative interest in the Solomani element in the TU.

Nearly 20 years ago someone on the TML posted draft materials for a campaign set during the early Ziru Sirka (IIRC), well to coreward, without any reference to Terra, the Solomani, or the destiny of the Vilani. I'd like to do that someday, myself. Something all-human and with no Earthly anything in the picture.
 
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