Badenov
SOC-13
That is absolutely a TL5 missile "turret". Although it seems to have fired unguided rockets.I see a missile "turret" as more like something a bit more antiquated like this:
[1e] Turret Weapons - Thoughts and House Rules
- Thread starter TheDark
- Start date
Those unguided rockets used what was pretty much the motor later employed in the AIM-9 Sidewinder -- so there's another connection.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Default is a tonne, where it fits, it sits.
As regards vertical launch system, rule application is inconsistent, and somewhat dubious.
Re: wraponized cats:Default is a tonne, where it fits, it sits.
As regards vertical launch system, rule application is inconsistent, and somewhat dubious.
"In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious."
-Terry Pratchett, Lords and Ladies
Just what a 'turret' is is not explained in Book 2, nor does it way where the gunner needs to be (aside from in passing in the description of the 'Gunner Interact' program). I'd assume they'd be in the volume allocated to 'fire control', wherever that might be (there's nothing saying where it has to be in relation to where the 'turret' is placed).
All we know about turrets is that they go on 'hardpoints' that must be allocated during design and construction, that ones with more capacity cost more, and that they require a certain amount of interior volume for 'fire control'. Book 5 makes it clear that they require significant power, aside from sandcasters (and missiles, pre-errata). Interestingly, B5 removes the cost of a hardpoint and of turrets, and then makes the tonnage requirement be for the turret.
We can safely assume that hardpoints have power and data feeds sufficient to manage and power up to three lasers. Presumably that's what you pay KCr100 for.
IMO the lasers are the size they are because they fit into the volume that a missile (or sand) launcher plus a two-round magazine takes up or that launchers happen to have a two round magazine because that's how many you can fit (plus launcher) into the volume the standard laser requires. Presumably this happens to be the most workable size that lets you put three into a 'turret' mount.
As for the gunners, aside from controlling a turret, they also seem to be expected to act as loaders once the ready ammo is used up. As both sand and missiles mass 50kg each, taking about 5.5 minutes per missile to reload (three per turn) is probably reasonable. Note that B5 doesn't concern itself with such minor details, which is reasonable for military vessels that would probably have automatic reloaders and so on (but which should also pay for this in volume and credits, but don't).
Book 2 is fine for describing merchants, scouts, and armed para-military ships that are using what are essentially civilian weapons. It really doesn't handle warships at all, as it treats them as being civilian ships with more guns (and probably more acceleration and also probably bigger computers for more combat program capacity). But even if a warship can only have the same listed weapons, it should be able to fit bigger missile magazines with automatic loading and launchers with a higher rate of fire, and centralised fire control so one gunner can direct multiple turrets. Even if automatic loaders are out, rules for applying more people to the reload process should be in place (if nothing else it gives the marines something to do whilst waiting for a boarding action).
Book 5 on the other hand, abstracts too much - or at least doesn't bake in the extra expense military grade launchers, etc. should incur (heck, it doesn't even bump up the cost of turret weapons to cover the cost of the turret and hardpoint that it abstracted away).
All we know about turrets is that they go on 'hardpoints' that must be allocated during design and construction, that ones with more capacity cost more, and that they require a certain amount of interior volume for 'fire control'. Book 5 makes it clear that they require significant power, aside from sandcasters (and missiles, pre-errata). Interestingly, B5 removes the cost of a hardpoint and of turrets, and then makes the tonnage requirement be for the turret.
We can safely assume that hardpoints have power and data feeds sufficient to manage and power up to three lasers. Presumably that's what you pay KCr100 for.
IMO the lasers are the size they are because they fit into the volume that a missile (or sand) launcher plus a two-round magazine takes up or that launchers happen to have a two round magazine because that's how many you can fit (plus launcher) into the volume the standard laser requires. Presumably this happens to be the most workable size that lets you put three into a 'turret' mount.
As for the gunners, aside from controlling a turret, they also seem to be expected to act as loaders once the ready ammo is used up. As both sand and missiles mass 50kg each, taking about 5.5 minutes per missile to reload (three per turn) is probably reasonable. Note that B5 doesn't concern itself with such minor details, which is reasonable for military vessels that would probably have automatic reloaders and so on (but which should also pay for this in volume and credits, but don't).
Book 2 is fine for describing merchants, scouts, and armed para-military ships that are using what are essentially civilian weapons. It really doesn't handle warships at all, as it treats them as being civilian ships with more guns (and probably more acceleration and also probably bigger computers for more combat program capacity). But even if a warship can only have the same listed weapons, it should be able to fit bigger missile magazines with automatic loading and launchers with a higher rate of fire, and centralised fire control so one gunner can direct multiple turrets. Even if automatic loaders are out, rules for applying more people to the reload process should be in place (if nothing else it gives the marines something to do whilst waiting for a boarding action).
Book 5 on the other hand, abstracts too much - or at least doesn't bake in the extra expense military grade launchers, etc. should incur (heck, it doesn't even bump up the cost of turret weapons to cover the cost of the turret and hardpoint that it abstracted away).
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
I rather doubt that a two tonne fusion turret needs more fire control than a one tonne laser one.
Current rules have all the missiles launched from one set of launchers, whether bays, barbettes, or turrets, head towards one target, so guidance instructions would just be cloned across all the missiles launched that round.
Current rules have all the missiles launched from one set of launchers, whether bays, barbettes, or turrets, head towards one target, so guidance instructions would just be cloned across all the missiles launched that round.
So far as I can tell, Book 2 allows you to fire missiles on multiple targets if you have a Multi-target program, just as you can with lasers. The fact that without that program you can only fire at one target, no matter how many turrets you have, and despite each turret requiring its own gunner, is weird. It's WWI fire control technology levels of integration - as I say, civilian gear, not military.
Black Vulmea
SOC-12
If the gunner's a close friend, their position is on the bridge.
If the gunner's your wife's nephew sponging a job off you, their position is in the turret.
All old spacehands know this.
If the gunner's your wife's nephew sponging a job off you, their position is in the turret.
All old spacehands know this.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
You are using the wrong units, don't you think it is about time to make it easier for newcomers if you use the standardised game terms rather than your "ho ho I am so funny units"?Default is a tonne, where it fits, it sits.
As regards vertical launch system, rule application is inconsistent, and somewhat dubious.
Yes we all know you do it deliberately, but to anyone who hasn't seen your posts before thay could get the impression you don't have a clue what you are talking about, which is not the case.
Personally having 1,000kg being the limit mass wise of a displacement ton hearkens back to CT so I am all for it.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Somewhere along the way, volume substituted for mass.
The reason why you wonder if passenger luggage is calculated by weight or volume, not just ordnance.
While you could state that it's by Terran standard gravity, volume is easier to quantify, than weight, which varies by gravity well.
My guess would be, if someone wondered what happened to hydrogen fuel if you gasified it, since it's supposedly lighter than air.
The reason why you wonder if passenger luggage is calculated by weight or volume, not just ordnance.
While you could state that it's by Terran standard gravity, volume is easier to quantify, than weight, which varies by gravity well.
My guess would be, if someone wondered what happened to hydrogen fuel if you gasified it, since it's supposedly lighter than air.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Minor CT background for those that don’t know, missile bays are described in Striker as 50 missiles for 50 ton bays and 100 missiles for 100 ton bays. So definitely VLS style.
In addition the turret missiles are 15cm diameter and bay missiles are 25cm. Presumably this is so HE and KEAP warheads can be defined and resolved, and also nuke warheads. One can also work backwards with these values against the presented HG armor.
The 1EP 250 MW lasers work out quite nicely re range once the vacuum modifiers are applied. Capacitors are quite the variable so I tend to apply the HG capacitors sized to 1EP. Of course that yields a weapon that fits more as a contiguous weapon inside a tank or other vehicle and needed a reason for the hard point rule so went with the crawl space variant.
In addition the turret missiles are 15cm diameter and bay missiles are 25cm. Presumably this is so HE and KEAP warheads can be defined and resolved, and also nuke warheads. One can also work backwards with these values against the presented HG armor.
The 1EP 250 MW lasers work out quite nicely re range once the vacuum modifiers are applied. Capacitors are quite the variable so I tend to apply the HG capacitors sized to 1EP. Of course that yields a weapon that fits more as a contiguous weapon inside a tank or other vehicle and needed a reason for the hard point rule so went with the crawl space variant.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
If you consider the issue, exactly why is a one tonne turret universally accepted, by all spacecraft naval architects and constructors?
Game rational is simplicity.
We know we can scale up, hence five tonne barbettes.
Installing bays into turrets, is also a possibility, with minimum primary hull volumes.
One difference is reaction times, which is why barbette installed lasers can't be used for point defence.
Game rational is simplicity.
We know we can scale up, hence five tonne barbettes.
Installing bays into turrets, is also a possibility, with minimum primary hull volumes.
One difference is reaction times, which is why barbette installed lasers can't be used for point defence.
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